Author Topic: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe  (Read 61188 times)

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Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #135 on: July 16, 2012, 11:00:22 AM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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What part of NBA journeyman don't you get? You can be traded in this league or you can leave in free agency but if your constantly switching teams and allegiances your considered a journeyman. This will forever now be ray allen's legacy and one he wrote for himself. You might not like that fact. But still, it remains a FACT.
Which part of that description does Ray Allen fit, again?


The point i was trying to make is he's bounced around from team to team in his career. He started on the bucks. Was traded to the sonics. Then was traded to the Celtics. It was in his hands whether he wanted to retire here and have his name always associated with this great organization. He chose on his own accord to move on to miami. That will forever tarnish his time here. He chose to be a mercenary in my eyes. He can no longer be associated with this club when it comes time for him to retire. He chose to leave. On a less lucrative contract, for very trivial reasons in my eyes. To me he ruined his own name and legacy in Celtics lore and how he will be remembered when he makes the Hall.

Ray Allen is not a Journeyman

7 years with the bucks
4 years with the sonics
5 years with the celtics




Clearly we just have different views of what that word means. To me the fact he's bounced from team to team and in this latest move he did so by his own choice, that makes him a journeyman. He had a chance to retire here in the good graces of the organization and it's fans. He CHOSE not to do that. To me that emobodies the word. He a gun for hire. If he retires i assume it will be as a Buck now since that's the team he played the longest for. He's most remembered for his highlights here. That tells the whole story in and of itself.

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #136 on: July 16, 2012, 11:09:10 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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You clearly don't understand what "bouncing from team to team" means. Ray Allen has been on 3 teams in 16 years. That's not a lot in NBA terms. Each of these stints spans longer thant some guys' NBA careers.

For the definition of a NBA journeyman, please see (among others):
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/keyon_dooling/career_stats.html
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #137 on: July 16, 2012, 11:13:48 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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Ray has been moved by trades for the most part. He's not a Journeyman in my eyes.

And even if he was, so what?
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Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #138 on: July 16, 2012, 11:17:25 AM »

Offline Rondo2287

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What part of NBA journeyman don't you get? You can be traded in this league or you can leave in free agency but if your constantly switching teams and allegiances your considered a journeyman. This will forever now be ray allen's legacy and one he wrote for himself. You might not like that fact. But still, it remains a FACT.
Which part of that description does Ray Allen fit, again?


The point i was trying to make is he's bounced around from team to team in his career. He started on the bucks. Was traded to the sonics. Then was traded to the Celtics. It was in his hands whether he wanted to retire here and have his name always associated with this great organization. He chose on his own accord to move on to miami. That will forever tarnish his time here. He chose to be a mercenary in my eyes. He can no longer be associated with this club when it comes time for him to retire. He chose to leave. On a less lucrative contract, for very trivial reasons in my eyes. To me he ruined his own name and legacy in Celtics lore and how he will be remembered when he makes the Hall.

Ray Allen is not a Journeyman

7 years with the bucks
4 years with the sonics
5 years with the celtics




Clearly we just have different views of what that word means. To me the fact he's bounced from team to team and in this latest move he did so by his own choice, that makes him a journeyman. He had a chance to retire here in the good graces of the organization and it's fans. He CHOSE not to do that. To me that emobodies the word. He a gun for hire. If he retires i assume it will be as a Buck now since that's the team he played the longest for. He's most remembered for his highlights here. That tells the whole story in and of itself.

Quote
Journeymen players are usually distinguished from an elite or "star" player. Quirk and Fort[2] note that the concerns of journeymen players and superstars, with respect to contract and other negotiations, differ: Superstars are concerned with the preservation of their rights to be free agents, whilst journeymen players are concerned with issues such as league minimum salaries and player pensions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman_(sports)

Also he hasn't "Bounced Around"  Jim Jackson Bounced around, Eddie House has bounced around, Kenny Anderson Bounced around, Kurt Thomas has bounced around, Juwan Howard has bounced around.

Ray Allen is not a journeyman in any sense of the term
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Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #139 on: July 16, 2012, 11:19:32 AM »

Offline Gruntled

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What part of NBA journeyman don't you get? You can be traded in this league or you can leave in free agency but if your constantly switching teams and allegiances your considered a journeyman. This will forever now be ray allen's legacy and one he wrote for himself. You might not like that fact. But still, it remains a FACT.
Which part of that description does Ray Allen fit, again?


The point i was trying to make is he's bounced around from team to team in his career. He started on the bucks. Was traded to the sonics. Then was traded to the Celtics. It was in his hands whether he wanted to retire here and have his name always associated with this great organization. He chose on his own accord to move on to miami. That will forever tarnish his time here. He chose to be a mercenary in my eyes. He can no longer be associated with this club when it comes time for him to retire. He chose to leave. On a less lucrative contract, for very trivial reasons in my eyes. To me he ruined his own name and legacy in Celtics lore and how he will be remembered when he makes the Hall.

Ray Allen is not a Journeyman

7 years with the bucks
4 years with the sonics
5 years with the celtics




Clearly we just have different views of what that word means. To me the fact he's bounced from team to team and in this latest move he did so by his own choice, that makes him a journeyman. He had a chance to retire here in the good graces of the organization and it's fans. He CHOSE not to do that. To me that emobodies the word. He a gun for hire. If he retires i assume it will be as a Buck now since that's the team he played the longest for. He's most remembered for his highlights here. That tells the whole story in and of itself.

I don't think that word means what you think it means:

Definition of JOURNEYMAN



1

: a worker who has learned a trade and works for another person usually by the day


2

: an experienced reliable worker, athlete, or performer especially as distinguished from one who is brilliant or colorful

It comes from a description of one's level of training, where the three levels are apprentice, journeyman, and master.  As per wikipedia:
"A journeyman is someone who has completed an apprenticeship and is fully educated in a trade or craft, but not yet a master."

It has nothing to do with how many teams you have played for, it is a description of how much skill and training you have.  I think by just about anyone's description, in terms of basketball skills, Ray Allen is a master.

Further, the root "journey" in journeyman does not directly refer to moving around, although journeymen do oftwn have to travel to find work:

"The word journeyman comes from the French word journee, which means the period of one day. The title refers to the journeyman's right to charge a fee for each day's work. Journeymen would normally be employed by a master craftsman, but would live apart and might have a family of their own. A journeyman could not employ others. In contrast, an apprentice would be bound to a master, usually for a fixed term of seven years, and lived with the master as a member of the household, receiving most or all compensation in the form of food and lodging"

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #140 on: July 16, 2012, 11:21:02 AM »

Offline Interceptor

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But seriously, move on.
Why? We're just doing what we feel is best for ourselves and our families. Who are you to tell people what to do with their time?

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #141 on: July 16, 2012, 11:23:22 AM »

Offline BballTim

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What part of NBA journeyman don't you get? You can be traded in this league or you can leave in free agency but if your constantly switching teams and allegiances your considered a journeyman. This will forever now be ray allen's legacy and one he wrote for himself. You might not like that fact. But still, it remains a FACT.
Which part of that description does Ray Allen fit, again?


The point i was trying to make is he's bounced around from team to team in his career. He started on the bucks. Was traded to the sonics. Then was traded to the Celtics. It was in his hands whether he wanted to retire here and have his name always associated with this great organization. He chose on his own accord to move on to miami. That will forever tarnish his time here. He chose to be a mercenary in my eyes. He can no longer be associated with this club when it comes time for him to retire. He chose to leave. On a less lucrative contract, for very trivial reasons in my eyes. To me he ruined his own name and legacy in Celtics lore and how he will be remembered when he makes the Hall.

Ray Allen is not a Journeyman

7 years with the bucks
4 years with the sonics
5 years with the celtics




Clearly we just have different views of what that word means. To me the fact he's bounced from team to team and in this latest move he did so by his own choice, that makes him a journeyman. He had a chance to retire here in the good graces of the organization and it's fans. He CHOSE not to do that. To me that emobodies the word. He a gun for hire. If he retires i assume it will be as a Buck now since that's the team he played the longest for. He's most remembered for his highlights here. That tells the whole story in and of itself.

I don't think that word means what you think it means:

Definition of JOURNEYMAN


  This looks like it'll get about as exciting as the debate about the definition of a role player.

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #142 on: July 16, 2012, 11:25:02 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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What part of NBA journeyman don't you get? You can be traded in this league or you can leave in free agency but if your constantly switching teams and allegiances your considered a journeyman. This will forever now be ray allen's legacy and one he wrote for himself. You might not like that fact. But still, it remains a FACT.
Which part of that description does Ray Allen fit, again?


The point i was trying to make is he's bounced around from team to team in his career. He started on the bucks. Was traded to the sonics. Then was traded to the Celtics. It was in his hands whether he wanted to retire here and have his name always associated with this great organization. He chose on his own accord to move on to miami. That will forever tarnish his time here. He chose to be a mercenary in my eyes. He can no longer be associated with this club when it comes time for him to retire. He chose to leave. On a less lucrative contract, for very trivial reasons in my eyes. To me he ruined his own name and legacy in Celtics lore and how he will be remembered when he makes the Hall.

Ray Allen is not a Journeyman

7 years with the bucks
4 years with the sonics
5 years with the celtics




Clearly we just have different views of what that word means. To me the fact he's bounced from team to team and in this latest move he did so by his own choice, that makes him a journeyman. He had a chance to retire here in the good graces of the organization and it's fans. He CHOSE not to do that. To me that emobodies the word. He a gun for hire. If he retires i assume it will be as a Buck now since that's the team he played the longest for. He's most remembered for his highlights here. That tells the whole story in and of itself.

I don't think that word means what you think it means:

Definition of JOURNEYMAN



1

: a worker who has learned a trade and works for another person usually by the day


2

: an experienced reliable worker, athlete, or performer especially as distinguished from one who is brilliant or colorful

It comes from a description of one's level of training, where the three levels are apprentice, journeyman, and master.  As per wikipedia:
"A journeyman is someone who has completed an apprenticeship and is fully educated in a trade or craft, but not yet a master."

It has nothing to do with how many teams you have played for, it is a description of how much skill and training you have.  I think by just about anyone's description, in terms of basketball skills, Ray Allen is a master.

Further, the root "journey" in journeyman does not directly refer to moving around, although journeymen do oftwn have to travel to find work:

"The word journeyman comes from the French word journee, which means the period of one day. The title refers to the journeyman's right to charge a fee for each day's work. Journeymen would normally be employed by a master craftsman, but would live apart and might have a family of their own. A journeyman could not employ others. In contrast, an apprentice would be bound to a master, usually for a fixed term of seven years, and lived with the master as a member of the household, receiving most or all compensation in the form of food and lodging"

We're actually using "journeyman" in the 1. meaning of the work -- which refers to someone who's selling their services to the highest bidder. And indeed, in the original meaning of the word, he does that "daily".
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #143 on: July 16, 2012, 11:31:07 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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Number of teams they played for

Shaq - 6
Kid - 5
Rodman -5
Pippen - 3 (4 if you count going back to Bulls again)
Barkley - 3
Moses Malone - 7 (came back to 76's twice so it could be eight) and two more ABA teams
Parish - 4

So that's off the top of my head. Are these guys journeymen too?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 11:36:41 AM by Onslaught »
Peace through Tyranny

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #144 on: July 16, 2012, 11:34:33 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Number of teams they played for

Shaq - 6
Kid - 5
Rodman -5
Pippen - 3 (4 if you count going back to Bulls again)
Barkley - 3
Moses Malone - 7 (came back to 76's twice so it could be 8) and two more ABA teams
Parish - 4

So that's off the top of my head. Are these guys journeymen too?

   Pippen, Barkely and Parish all spent the bulkof thier careers on one team, but late in their careers when they were bouncing around the league they'd probably fall into the journeyman category.

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #145 on: July 16, 2012, 11:36:56 AM »

Offline Eja117

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Number of teams they played for

Shaq - 6
Kid - 5
Rodman -5
Pippen - 3 (4 if you count going back to Bulls again)
Barkley - 3
Moses Malone - 7 (came back to 76's twice so it could be 8) and two more ABA teams
Parish - 4

So that's off the top of my head. Are these guys journeymen too?
Some of them for sure
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 07:10:10 PM by eja117 »

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #146 on: July 16, 2012, 11:37:56 AM »

Offline ACF

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Have you ever had a friend make a decision for himself (or herself for that matter)  that you totally didn't expect them to make? That's how I felt about Ray leaving. I never for my life thought he'd go to South Beach and so I really didn't know what to think. Still don't. But, using the friend analogy, I guess it's very surprised, a bit mad, very disappointed but mostly just very sad. Things can never go back to what they were. You can kiss and make up afterwards but things will never ever be the same. Sad...

I hope Ray regrets this, mostly because if he did, it would be because we beat Miami in the playoffs. Go Celts.

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #147 on: July 16, 2012, 11:38:10 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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So then being a journeyman isn't a bad thing then.
Peace through Tyranny

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #148 on: July 16, 2012, 11:40:11 AM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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To me if you can't distinguish right away what jersey he will have retired in his Hall of Fame induction that makes him a journeyman. If you dont like that opinion tough. It is what it is. And im allowed to my opinion thanks.

If your in touch with ray ray please enlighten us which jersey he will choose. He will embarass himself if he chooses the C's jersey. Half the fan base or more considers him a benedict arnold now and forever more. You guys can play the holier than thou card and sing koom-by-ya all you want. Ill be in the garden to drown out the hippies in beer, belching, and booing.

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #149 on: July 16, 2012, 11:42:52 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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He's not retired yet. So we don't know how this will play out. Could be he has a great run with the Heat (I hope not) and he has that jersey in the hall of fame.

Let's hold off until the story is done before we read the end of the book.
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