Report: Lin signs offer sheet with Rockets

[nicknorman]

I hate to say this, but I have to agree with Stephen A. Smith's assessment: http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/8168960/stephen-smith-new-york-knicks-better-jeremy-lin

How can you pay a player $14M (really $30M) who refused to come off the bench in the playoffs after saying he was 85%.  Half the Celtics starters were less then 85% throughout the playoffs.

For the first time, Dolan is making a smart business move.

[AB_Celtic]

He is the Tebow of the NBA.

Too true.

[Snakehead]

I have to laugh too because looking around online all I see is Knicks fans complaining and wanting to keep Lin.  It was the same with the proposed Nash trade, none of them wanted to lose Shumpert in that deal.

Do they realize they don't have a good team?  But keep everything the same... 

[mctyson]

Carmelo calls Lin's offer from Houston "ridiculous."
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1259211-jeremy-lin-carmelo-anthony-speaks-out-on-linsanitys-rockets-contract

There are far more kids running around NYC wearing Knicks jerseys with Lin's name on the back than Anthony's. It isn't even close. The only thing ridiculous here is Carmelo's jealousy, which has been apparent since day one of Linsanity. He obviously wants the competition shipped out of town -- and he's about to get his wish.

You can have many criticisms of Melo but I don't agree on this one.  $14 million dollars?  It is a ridiculous contract and the Knicks would be stupid to match it.

Not only is Lin overblown but he is a poor fit for the team.

He is the Tebow of the NBA.

And Tebow is arguably the popular player in the NFL.

At some point sports is entertainment.  It is a product that needs to be sold to paying customers.  In order to get those customers to continue to shell out more and more money for expensive season tickets and $8 beers, a franchise has to put a product on the court/field/ice that gets people in the gate.

If you want to make the argument that winning accomplishes this, and that the Knicks are letting Lin go because they feel they will be a more competitive team without him, then fine.  I can buy that argument to a degree.  He was an unproven semi-rookie who had one amazing month of basketball.  He plays out of control, turns the ball over way to much, sucks at defense, and is coming off of a knee injury that could happen again given his style of play.

But you cannot, in any practical sense, argue that this is a smart move for the business of New York Knick basketball.  Spare me the nonsense about Lin being offered a ridiculous amount of money.  Didn't NY just offer Steve Novak $15M over 4 years? Isn't ridiculous that Amare Stoudemire is actually an amnesty candidate in the immediate future?  Yet here you have Lin, who you could argue created hundreds of thousands of new NY Knicks fans last year, bring in milions upon millions of dollars into James Dolan's wallet...and now he's not worth the contract that Houston is willing to pay him???

And of all of the owners who would balk at paying Lin $15M in his last year (plus the luxury tax), DOLAN is balking.  Seriously.  The guy who shelled out millions to Isiah so he could shell out millions to players that not only sucked but no one wanted to watch.  It is a disgrace.

Oh and by the way...the reason they would have to pay that extra $15M to Lin via the luxury tax is not the product of the Lin contract, it is the product of the other terrible contracts on that team.  At least Lin would make the money back for you.  Stoudemire won't even see the end of his deal.  Literally and Figuratively.

[Snakehead]

Carmelo calls Lin's offer from Houston "ridiculous."
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1259211-jeremy-lin-carmelo-anthony-speaks-out-on-linsanitys-rockets-contract

There are far more kids running around NYC wearing Knicks jerseys with Lin's name on the back than Anthony's. It isn't even close. The only thing ridiculous here is Carmelo's jealousy, which has been apparent since day one of Linsanity. He obviously wants the competition shipped out of town -- and he's about to get his wish.

You can have many criticisms of Melo but I don't agree on this one.  $14 million dollars?  It is a ridiculous contract and the Knicks would be stupid to match it.

Not only is Lin overblown but he is a poor fit for the team.

He is the Tebow of the NBA.

And Tebow is arguably the popular player in the NFL.

At some point sports is entertainment.  It is a product that needs to be sold to paying customers.  In order to get those customers to continue to shell out more and more money for expensive season tickets and $8 beers, a franchise has to put a product on the court/field/ice that gets people in the gate.

If you want to make the argument that winning accomplishes this, and that the Knicks are letting Lin go because they feel they will be a more competitive team without him, then fine.  I can buy that argument to a degree.  He was an unproven semi-rookie who had one amazing month of basketball.  He plays out of control, turns the ball over way to much, sucks at defense, and is coming off of a knee injury that could happen again given his style of play.

But you cannot, in any practical sense, argue that this is a smart move for the business of New York Knick basketball.  Spare me the nonsense about Lin being offered a ridiculous amount of money.  Didn't NY just offer Steve Novak $15M over 4 years? Isn't ridiculous that Amare Stoudemire is actually an amnesty candidate in the immediate future?  Yet here you have Lin, who you could argue created hundreds of thousands of new NY Knicks fans last year, bring in milions upon millions of dollars into James Dolan's wallet...and now he's not worth the contract that Houston is willing to pay him???

And of all of the owners who would balk at paying Lin $15M in his last year (plus the luxury tax), DOLAN is balking.  Seriously.  The guy who shelled out millions to Isiah so he could shell out millions to players that not only sucked but no one wanted to watch.  It is a disgrace.

Oh and by the way...the reason they would have to pay that extra $15M to Lin via the luxury tax is not the product of the Lin contract, it is the product of the other terrible contracts on that team.  At least Lin would make the money back for you.  Stoudemire won't even see the end of his deal.  Literally and Figuratively.

I get the business side of it.  That's why Houston made the offer they did.

I would never root for a team that was making business decisions over decisions to lead them to a title.

Thank god I root for a team that wants to win above all else.

You bring up Amare and other contracts, and at least those players could be improved if they brought in a real PG.  The fact that they have Amare and refuse to go get a distributor, pick and roll PG is laughable.

Lin isn't worth that money if you are trying to win a title.

The Novak deal doesn't defend it either.  Knicks are just a badly run franchise and their fans are delusional.  Just makes me glad to be a Celts fan.


EDIT: Also, what happens in the likleyhood that Lin starts to fizzle out?  He doesn't play up to his contract and isn't close to a good fit with the rest of the roster?  Will his jerseys still be selling then?

EDIT 2: Winning brings business and sales. Ask the Celtics.  Bottom line to me.  That is the goal.

[StartOrien]

Here's what I'd like to know about this story -

Did Lin go back to the Knicks and ask them to match the contract he had with the Rockets, but even out the money throughout the years?

[CapnDunks]

I agree Lin was super overblown but he was also perfectly set up to fail. Insane amount of pressure for a young inexperienced player. Esp in MSG.

Dolan consistently makes the business decision over the basketball one. Once he realized the Knicks weren't getting Lebron he gutted the team so badly for Melo even though he was a poor fit and was planning to come via freeagency anyway. I'm seriously surprised if they're not matching.

Although... I'm in New York. And I see way more Melo Jerseys than Lin. Stores can't give away all that Linsanity merch.

[tarheelsxxiii]

This move confuses me for a few reasons.

I never got the impression Dolan was a win-first kind of guy. NYC is the hub of big-money entertainment and, from that standpoint, Lin was the best thing that happened for them. I understand that contract is rough for someone that hasn't proven himself at all, but at the same time, I think the best option is to keep him from a practical and business standpoint. This team isn't winning anytime in the near future - why let go of the best thing that has happened to the franchise in a longgg time?

In defense of Lin, he had an amazing performance last year. Right now, yeah...he's a liability on defense. He's turnover prone. He hasn't played enough to warrant big money. At the same time, he's an athlete (defense can improve), he came to in on the biggest stage (steep learning curve, learning to play at this level - turnovers will drop), and has proven he embraces huge moments. He's going to be solid and, if nothing more than that on the court, a huge attraction to a franchise that has nothing else going for it in the near future.

Also, I don't understand how someone labeled a "pick-and-roll PG as a joke" - is Steve Nash not arguably one of the best of our generation? Forget Nash here, even - the Knicks were at their best, in a long time, when Felton and Amare were a nasty 1-2 punch in a pick-and-roll heavy offense.

I think Melo is a curse. He's so good offensively that he's an obvious max-contract guy. At the same time, he's such a complete ball stopper that he requires a team to be built around him. And as a liability in every other facet of the game, building around him based on this and, imo being more concerned about being cute and liked than winning, is a huge mistake.

I'm obviously biased but I would do everything in my power to trade Melo, amnesty Amare, and start from scratch. If their goal is to win a chip, they've gotten themselves into a hole they can't climb out of and it has only gotten worse this offseason.

 

[Cman]

I have to laugh too because looking around online all I see is Knicks fans complaining and wanting to keep Lin.  It was the same with the proposed Nash trade, none of them wanted to lose Shumpert in that deal.

Do they realize they don't have a good team?  But keep everything the same... 

Yeah, but same could be said about stuff here on Celticsblog.

Remember the griping and moaning when Danny traded Semih Erden and Luke Harangody to the Cavs for a 2nd rounder?

Ever see a trade thread with Avery Bradley's name in it? Half the posters say they wouldn't consider any trade with AB, because he's a future All Star....

Point being, fans of every team are the same when it comes to trades involving their own beloved players.

[Snakehead]

I have to laugh too because looking around online all I see is Knicks fans complaining and wanting to keep Lin.  It was the same with the proposed Nash trade, none of them wanted to lose Shumpert in that deal.

Do they realize they don't have a good team?  But keep everything the same... 

Yeah, but same could be said about stuff here on Celticsblog.

Remember the griping and moaning when Danny traded Semih Erden and Luke Harangody to the Cavs for a 2nd rounder?

Ever see a trade thread with Avery Bradley's name in it? Half the posters say they wouldn't consider any trade with AB, because he's a future All Star....

Point being, fans of every team are the same when it comes to trades involving their own beloved players.

I don't think its quite the same.  We are talking here on the Celtics about role players around a proven core of a team that contends every year.  If the Celtics were an 8 seed I wouldn't be holding players like Lin and Shumpert as must keep guys.

Steve Nash was exactly what that team needed.  For someone to object to the trade to keep Shumpert?  Silly.  And I like Shumpert too but he isn't putting you over the top.

Fans are crazy a lot of times yes, but Knicks fans seem more delusional to me.

[mctyson]

I get the business side of it.  That's why Houston made the offer they did.

I would never root for a team that was making business decisions over decisions to lead them to a title.

Thank god I root for a team that wants to win above all else.

.

I agree, but remember all the terrible years the Celtics had during the 90's (and to a lesser extent the early 2000's.)  Wouldn't it have been nice if there was one guy on that roster for a few years that got most of the city excited about watching Celtics games?  Not every team can contend for a title.  Sometimes you have to develop a longer term strategy, and in the mean time still put a product on the floor that people will want to watch.  The Knicks could have done that with Lin, and they blew it.

You bring up Amare and other contracts, and at least those players could be improved if they brought in a real PG.  The fact that they have Amare and refuse to go get a distributor, pick and roll PG is laughable.

Lin isn't worth that money if you are trying to win a title.

The Novak deal doesn't defend it either.  Knicks are just a badly run franchise and their fans are delusional.  Just makes me glad to be a Celts fan.

I don't think for one second Knicks fans are delusional.  They are dying for a team to root for, for a core that will compete year after year (like we have).  But at every turn, their owner is destroying that possibility.  And yes...Lin could have been part of that core - even though I agree with you about his game.

EDIT: Also, what happens in the likleyhood that Lin starts to fizzle out?  He doesn't play up to his contract and isn't close to a good fit with the rest of the roster?  Will his jerseys still be selling then?

EDIT 2: Winning brings business and sales. Ask the Celtics.  Bottom line to me.  That is the goal.

These are all good points, and I am sure the Knicks' brass questioned Lin's durability and his ability as a player to keep up the momentum he had last year.  What if goes to Houston and plays well, though?  I bet you Knicks fans will be furious.

The Knicks haven't won a title in 40 years.  They haven't competed for one in over a decade.  They have barely been a playoff team.  It is easy to say winning cures everything but they are not winning with the team they have now.

[mctyson]

I'm obviously biased but I would do everything in my power to trade Melo, amnesty Amare, and start from scratch. If their goal is to win a chip, they've gotten themselves into a hole they can't climb out of and it has only gotten worse this offseason.

And of course Dolan won't do that because they just renovated MSG and have incredibly expensive season ticket packages they have to sell.  So you bring in some overpaid fringe All-Stars and one big name guy and say you have a championship team to your fans.

[bdm860]

I'm obviously biased but I would do everything in my power to trade Melo, amnesty Amare, and start from scratch. If their goal is to win a chip, they've gotten themselves into a hole they can't climb out of and it has only gotten worse this offseason.

And of course Dolan won't do that because they just renovated MSG and have incredibly expensive season ticket packages they have to sell.  So you bring in some overpaid fringe All-Stars and one big name guy and say you have a championship team to your fans.

Hey even Steven A Smith is buying into that.  In that article he wrote listed earlier he says the only way Knicks will see Lin more than twice a year is if the Rockets make the NBA Finals.  The Rockets can make the NBA Finals every year of Lin's deal, and they'll still only play the Knicks twice a season.

[bdm860]

It seems like Daryl Morey is one of the better known GM’s in the league, seems like he knows what he’s doing.  But what’s up with this Jeremy Lin evaluation?  We had you on our team, in our camp, but you weren’t good enough to cut it on our lottery team.  Now we see you play 25 games with somebody else, and we’re ready to throw about $30 million at you and completely forget about what we saw firsthand.  We’ll just throw all our prior analysis and evaluations and scouting reports we actually did on him when he was with us before out the window.  Makes sense. 

It’s like buying a risky penny stock, then after further in-depth analysis you evaluate the company and deem it’s not worth your investment so you get rid of it.  Then shortly after you sell the stock jumps up to $100 per share in a short period of time based on some good publicity but no confirmed earnings yet.  Same company as before selling the same product, but because everyone is making a big fuss about it now you throw all your old analysis out the window and buy back in at $100.  Maybe the stock is really worth $100 or even more, but then you're saying your old evaluation (something I think Houston prides itself) on was completely wrong.  Did Lin become that much better of a basketball player in a year?

It’s like Daryl Morey and James Dolan have switched places.  Morey is making a big gamble here, better hope he doesn’t end up being more like Wang Zhizhi or Yi Jianlian.

[Snakehead]

It seems like Daryl Morey is one of the better known GM’s in the league, seems like he knows what he’s doing.  But what’s up with this Jeremy Lin evaluation?  We had you on our team, in our camp, but you weren’t good enough to cut it on our lottery team.  Now we see you play 25 games with somebody else, and we’re ready to throw about $30 million at you and completely forget about what we saw firsthand.  We’ll just throw all our prior analysis and evaluations and scouting reports we actually did on him when he was with us before out the window.  Makes sense. 

It’s like buying a risky penny stock, then after further in-depth analysis you evaluate the company and deem it’s not worth your investment so you get rid of it.  Then shortly after you sell the stock jumps up to $100 per share in a short period of time based on some good publicity but no confirmed earnings yet.  Same company as before selling the same product, but because everyone is making a big fuss about it now you throw all your old analysis out the window and buy back in at $100.  Maybe the stock is really worth $100 or even more, but then you're saying your old evaluation (something I think Houston prides itself) on was completely wrong.  Did Lin become that much better of a basketball player in a year?

It’s like Daryl Morey and James Dolan have switched places.  Morey is making a big gamble here, better hope he doesn’t end up being more like Wang Zhizhi or Yi Jianlian.

It is funny.  And I thought their other strategy of shedding talent to avoid mediocrity and asset aquisition in an attempt to get Dwight makes a lot of sense but this Lin offer really throws a wrench in things.  I don't get it either.

I agree, but remember all the terrible years the Celtics had during the 90's (and to a lesser extent the early 2000's.)  Wouldn't it have been nice if there was one guy on that roster for a few years that got most of the city excited about watching Celtics games?  Not every team can contend for a title.  Sometimes you have to develop a longer term strategy, and in the mean time still put a product on the floor that people will want to watch.  The Knicks could have done that with Lin, and they blew it.


I don't think for one second Knicks fans are delusional.  They are dying for a team to root for, for a core that will compete year after year (like we have).  But at every turn, their owner is destroying that possibility.  And yes...Lin could have been part of that core - even though I agree with you about his game.


These are all good points, and I am sure the Knicks' brass questioned Lin's durability and his ability as a player to keep up the momentum he had last year.  What if goes to Houston and plays well, though?  I bet you Knicks fans will be furious.

The Knicks haven't won a title in 40 years.  They haven't competed for one in over a decade.  They have barely been a playoff team.  It is easy to say winning cures everything but they are not winning with the team they have now.

I think you make fair points and as I said I understand them from a business perspective, but not from a winning one, and that's always my aim.  I think we agree you are just making sense of the other side of it.

I understand trying to grasp at something when you are not able to get over the hump and I get that the Knicks are in a tough situation with so much salary tied up and untradable, but there are possibly ways out that can really improve the team and make it a contender.  Nash was one of those, and I'm sure there are others.  I think Kidd and Felton were both smart moves too.  Lin isn't to me.

Again it's not quite the Knicks situation, but as a fan I'd rather have my team blow it up and be bad and accumulate draft picks and position while gaining assets rather than be mediocre.  At least you could land a Durant type player perhaps or pull off trades like the ones that landed us Ray and KG.

If it's the right strategic move and winning is the end goal, I'll stand by the team.  Maybe others won't, but judging from the Celtics situation for example, the fanbase certainly came back and grew.