Be realistic about Rondo (I know it is asking a lot)

[Carhole]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html

here's shaq's career, he played with nash, hardaway, lebron and kobie guess where he had his best shooting percentage even thou he was 38

enough said

Btw show me the stat that the team with the best point guard TS% wins the series, there's your flaw right there.

once again

enough said

Seriously are you ok?

It is the TEAM with the best TS% that won all the series not team with the best PG TS%

Again - Shaq had his best shooting percentage because he was 5 shots a game and not asked to carry the offense. See, efficiency goes up as volume goes down (Even though you insist it will work in the opposite for Rondo) and he only played in 38 games where his offense consisted of lobs (From rajon) and put backs....hard to compare to his other stops.

And if you read the entire original post, if rondo makes everyone more efficient, why was the team more efficient playing in his absence this year?

[D Dub]

gtf outta here, Rondo best iq in L easy.   The way he elevates during playoffs?  Makes him untouchable...

Off topic but if a sg doesn't want to play with a top-pass-1st pg then he's gotta get cut.

[JSizzle95]

Be realistic? Everyone knows that Rondo is a weak shooter. But he' also the best passer, the best defensive PG and probably the best rebounding PG as well considering how many times it was Rondo crashing the O boards while the rest of the Cs went back to transition D. He's also very quick and excellent at running the fastbreak and is smart and cunning enough to get him easy layups. I'm sorry but you know there's more to basketball than scoring,right?

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html

here's shaq's career, he played with nash, hardaway, lebron and kobie guess where he had his best shooting percentage even thou he was 38

enough said

Btw show me the stat that the team with the best point guard TS% wins the series, there's your flaw right there.

once again

enough said

ONCE AGAIN "enough said" is NOT going to cut it! The flaw in your whole "gotcha" is the OTHER surrounding talent! I said plain as day that it was KG, PP, and Ray contributing to it being easier for Shaq to have one/no one there to stop him from putting it in the basket, not just RR! No matter how much you try to ignore it. I can only speculate but put Nash or CP3 in that position and the outcome would probably be the same (if not even more deadly b/c they score consistently)! If it was RR then why wasn't Perk scoring the same way Shaq was?

[OsirusCeltics]

you know, theres no point arguing...if its "so easy" to rack up triple doubles and be only behind Magic Johnson/Jason kidd for playoff Triple-d's then I just dont know what to tell you

Triple Doubles are sort of overrated because its more the cause of "circumstance"

So having the best finishers in the league at the time has nothing to do with it for Kidd and Magic??

Kidd (Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson, Kerry Kittles, Jason Terry, Dirk, Shawn Marion, etc.)

Magic (Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott, AC Green, Cooper)

Care to explain the "circumstance" that allows a 6"1" PG to routinely get 10+ rebounds?

Did they just fall into his lap?

No one is sayin Rondo isn't talented. Not alot of people that height can rebound like that. Its just that his inflated stats are by circumstance

I feel he lacks the half court game, which separates a star from a superstar
Not a good jumpshooter, free throw shooter, causes alot of turnovers when the game slows down, not a closer

[Celtics18]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html

here's shaq's career, he played with nash, hardaway, lebron and kobie guess where he had his best shooting percentage even thou he was 38

enough said

Btw show me the stat that the team with the best point guard TS% wins the series, there's your flaw right there.

once again

enough said

Seriously are you ok?

It is the TEAM with the best TS% that won all the series not team with the best PG TS%

Again - Shaq had his best shooting percentage because he was 5 shots a game and not asked to carry the offense. See, efficiency goes up as volume goes down (Even though you insist it will work in the opposite for Rondo) and he only played in 38 games where his offense consisted of lobs (From rajon) and put backs....hard to compare to his other stops.

And if you read the entire original post, if rondo makes everyone more efficient, why was the team more efficient playing in his absence this year?

Overall, the team was much more efficient offensively this season with Rondo on the floor than when he wasn't on the floor.  I'm not sure I get where your claim that the team was more efficient in his absence comes from?

[goCeltics]

It is the TEAM with the best TS% that won all the series not team with the best PG TS%

my point exactly.

[goCeltics]

people here are really delusion if they think paul and ray were playing at hall of fame level last year. Very weak argument

[goCeltics]

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112BOS.HTM

looks like rondo had better on court plus/minus than ray and paul

[Tai]

you know, theres no point arguing...if its "so easy" to rack up triple doubles and be only behind Magic Johnson/Jason kidd for playoff Triple-d's then I just dont know what to tell you

Triple Doubles are sort of overrated because its more the cause of "circumstance"

So having the best finishers in the league at the time has nothing to do with it for Kidd and Magic??

Kidd (Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson, Kerry Kittles, Jason Terry, Dirk, Shawn Marion, etc.)

Magic (Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott, AC Green, Cooper)

Care to explain the "circumstance" that allows a 6"1" PG to routinely get 10+ rebounds?

Did they just fall into his lap?

No one is sayin Rondo isn't talented. Not alot of people that height can rebound like that. Its just that his inflated stats are by circumstance

I feel he lacks the half court game, which separates a star from a superstar
Not a good jumpshooter, free throw shooter, causes alot of turnovers when the game slows down, not a closer

See, this is where people start saying you're having your cake and eating it too. It sounds to me you try to take the fact he can't shoot and magnify that, while downplaying all the accomplishments Rondo has done. At best, you're the opposite of Rondo "homers" who glorify the pros and downplay the cons; you're just glorifying the cons and downplaying the pros, but it doesn't make you anymore objective.

Again, it's one thing to say that he can't shoot that well, but when you start saying things like his accomplishments are due to "circumstances", it gets dicey what it'll take from Rondo for you to appreciate him. Same for calling his stats "inflated". I mean, even trying to argue about Kidd's team, the only guy on that list that matches up to PP and KG is maybe Dirk. I think you were better leaving Kidd out as an example, and it's clear you're not quitting while you're ahead.

It's already been argued by many how Rondo supposedly isn't even playing in the best system since this is more of a half court team, when a more fast paced team would be more down Rondo's alley. Whether you believe that is up to you, but I feel like if I listen to you and Carhole, just because Rondo plays well in this system, it's by default the perfect one for him. We could easily put guys next to Rondo who could shoot after KG and PP retire, calling them HOFers every time this topic comes up won't change that. The question is, will they be guys who keep up with Rondo or others who also lumber down the court, and Rondo's somehow still in a half-court system?

Anyways, like it's been said before, it's not sincere to only be "realistic" about Rondo's shooting, and then say things like his accomplishments are "circumstances".

[goCeltics]

just looked isiahs career ts%, 51.6%. guess rondo's 51% is so poor  

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais01.html

[flyofchange]

You be realistic. Realistic is boring. I think he can up his scoring and his %es and win a mvp. If he takes some more shots like 15-16 a game his assists dont have to suffer. Thats MY opinion and everybody is entitled to thier opinion.
For the record, his %es are worse than other elite pgs but he has shot 50% basically 3 seasons of his career, a guy like kobe who has the highest usage % in the league like every year and only avges 5 assists and takes 20-30 shots a game has NEVER shot even close to 50% in a SINGLE season......but hes an efficient scorer that puts up 20,30+ a night........

I hope he wins an mvp some day cause hes truly a unique player and i hope he leads the celtics to banner 18.

[bfrombleacher]

One word...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qoSXxWHV7Q

[LarBrd33]

You be realistic. Realistic is boring. I think he can up his scoring and his %es and win a mvp. If he takes some more shots like 15-16 a game his assists dont have to suffer. Thats MY opinion and everybody is entitled to thier opinion.
For the record, his %es are worse than other elite pgs but he has shot 50% basically 3 seasons of his career, a guy like kobe who has the highest usage % in the league like every year and only avges 5 assists and takes 20-30 shots a game has NEVER shot even close to 50% in a SINGLE season......but hes an efficient scorer that puts up 20,30+ a night........

I hope he wins an mvp some day cause hes truly a unique player and i hope he leads the celtics to banner 18.

He shot 50% because he pretty much avoided taking shots.  We had offensive weapons who took the scoring load... they also spread the floor and kept the paint open for layups (Ray spreads the floor like no other and KG takes bigs out of the paint with his mid-range game).  Rondo shot 50% for the same reason Perk shot 62%... it's hard to miss when you're primarily taking open layups. 

If Rondo continued to play as amazing and consistent as he did in the playoffs, he'd post regular season averages of 14.9 points, 10.2 assists.  This is just by simply deflating his playoff numbers to 36.9 minuets.  There's no way he'd average 43 minutes in the regular season (as he did during the playoffs).  Less minutes = less stats.  More shots = less assists.  Still...  very very good numbers.  Not on the level of a Chris Paul, though... at that point his shooting percentages become a factor. 

Again... Rondo in his prime is basically the second coming of Jason Kidd.  Kidd was an outstanding point guard and in the right circumstances lead a team to the Finals twice (partially because of the horrible eastern conference at the time).  Kidd never won MVP... but he was first team all-nba 5 times.  That's a realistic hope for Rondo. 

[LarBrd33]

Rondo haters need to go find another team, just like ray did.

I've been called a "hater" by many ignorant fans on this forum.  I love Rondo.  He's my 2nd favorite player to watch... but I agree people have an unrealistic perception of him.  He's a fantastic player, but there are better point guards in this league.  Chris Paul is better, for example.  I don't even feel it's debatable.  Still... by taking this stance, my fellow Celtic fans think I'm a traitor. 

I was reading an article on the HBO series "Girls" the other day.  It's a good show.  It has made me laugh several times.  It's not perfect, but I appreciate it.  There's been a ton of internet backlash about it.  A lot of the backlash revolves around some ridiculous nepotism claims.  A lot of people "hate" it for petty reasons.  I was reading the comments section in the article and a user named Homo_Erectus really summed up the culture behind this mentality:

Haven’t seen the episode yet, though it’s DVR’d. But I’ll tell you why there’s a backlash…

Because this is THE AGE OF HYPERBOLE. The internet has ushered in an era where everything is the “best”, “worst”, “greatest”, “stupidest”, “genius”, “most moronic”, etc.

If we aren’t totally in love with something then we must hate it, right?

Few have any self moderation, and too many have absolutely NO sense of perspective. “You said it was awesome and I watched it and it wasn’t awesome, therefore it’s terrible!”

I think he absolutely hit the nail on the head here.  We live in "THE AGE OF HYPERBOLE".  If I don't think Rondo is the "best" that must mean I think he's the "worst", right?  That kind of thinking needs to end.  I love Pierce, but at no point did I consider him as good as LeBron James.  That doesn't mean I'm a Pierce hater.  Have some perspective.