Kobe says 2012 usa team could beat the 92 dream team????

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Howard might be a little game changer on their defense. But DT bigs can handle Howard offensively. I mean, they went against Shaq who's more powerful and more skilled, they can handle Howard or Bynum.

Defensively for the young guys, it will be a game changer. A little. Because Robinson and Ewing can bring Howard or Bynum out to the perimeter, and let Malone or Barkley work the post, rendering their help defense moot.

[GreenFaith1819]

Howard might be a little game changer on their defense. But DT bigs can handle Howard offensively. I mean, they went against Shaq who's more powerful and more skilled, they can handle Howard or Bynum.

Defensively for the young guys, it will be a game changer. A little. Because Robinson and Ewing can bring Howard or Bynum out to the perimeter, and let Malone or Barkley work the post, rendering their help defense moot.

This.

[BUTerrier]

Indiana Pacers
✔
@Pacers
Larry Bird on whether current Olympic team could beat Dream Team: "They probably could. I haven't played in 20 years and we're all old now."

I was just coming on here to post this. Personally, I love SBNation's title for this quote: "Larry Bird's sarcasm could beat the Dream Team"

[Jon]

The funny part of Kobe's comments is that he took a shot at the Dream Team for having old wings.  This is coming from Kobe Bryant, the man who is turning 34 next month.

In 1992, while Larry was 36, Magic was still 33, Jordan was 29, Drexler was 30, Mullin was 28, and Pippen was 26.  Kobe is older than all of these guys (by a lot in some cases) except Bird. 

While I'll grant you that LeBron and Durant are young, it's not this giant disparity he imagines.  In fact Iguodala and Anthony are both 28, making them older than Pippen and not too far off Jordan, Drexler, and Mullin.  

[BUTerrier]

Well, this settles it: http://www.mandatory.com/2012/07/12/which-basketball-dream-team-is-really-better/#page=1

(Granted, I think they rearranged certain players to certain matchups -- Bird vs. Westbrook, for example -- to emphasize the point a little. Still, I think that even if you score it 7-5 instead of 10-2, it still shows the 92 Team is better)

[HowardAvellino]

Well, this settles it: http://www.mandatory.com/2012/07/12/which-basketball-dream-team-is-really-better/#page=1

(Granted, I think they rearranged certain players to certain matchups -- Bird vs. Westbrook, for example -- to emphasize the point a little. Still, I think that even if you score it 7-5 instead of 10-2, it still shows the 92 Team is better)

LOLOL!!!  I stopped after the first entry.  This is the most vivid proof at all that people can't get past nostalgia.  Magic Johnson is better than Chris Paul?  OK, sure, the 1983 version of Magic Johnson was.  But 1992 Johnson vs. 2012 Paul?  It's Paul, and it's not close.  Not a little bit close.

The same applies to Westbrook vs. Bird, and probably more so.  Westbrook is not as good as Paul, but Bird was already permanently retired by the time the Dream Team came along.  I think I get the feeling people bristle if I were to suggest 2012 Westbrook is better than 2012 Bird.  But he is, and he's clearly better than 1992 Bird, too.

Pippin is better than Durant?!?!?  At what, dissing Croatians?  Could we talk about basketball for a second?  No vintage of Scottie Pippin can compare with the current version of Durant.

The most interesting one is 1992 David Robinson vs. 2012 Kevin Love.  It's interesting because it's also not close, but in an interesting way.  For a 1992 NBA game, it's Robinson all the way.  For an international game, actually it's Love.  This can be seen by looking at how little a factor Robinsion actually was, in reality, in the Olympics.  Love's three-point shooting trumps Robinson's post-presence, because the international refs don't let you play in the post (and, shots rarely bounce off the rim and go in, because you're allowed to rebound the ball once it hits the rim).

A similar argument could be made for Carmelo Anthony vs. Karl Malone.  Anthony is made for the international game.  Watch any international game... including the 1992 US team... and count the pick-and-rolls.

John Stockton during the 1991-1992 NBA season was better then Deron Williams during the 2011-2012 NBA season, but again, Williams is better suited for international play, plus Stockton was injured in 1992, and barely played.

Finally, the size of the check mark in LeBron James's column is not nearly big enough.

[Roy H.]

Magic Johnson is better than Chris Paul?  OK, sure, the 1983 version of Magic Johnson was.  But 1992 Johnson vs. 2012 Paul?  It's Paul, and it's not close.  Not a little bit close.

It's a lot closer than you think.

Magic was one year removed from putting up 19.4 points, 12.5 assists, and 7.0 rebounds on 47.7% shooting and 90.6% from the line. That's better than what CP3 put up last year.  I don't think Magic's game fell off that much in one season, even if he had HIV; the guy took four years off from the NBA and still averaged 14 points and 7 assists.

Pippin is better than Durant?!?!?  At what, dissing Croatians?  Could we talk about basketball for a second?  No vintage of Scottie Pippin can compare with the current version of Durant.

Maybe not better, but pretty equal.  21 points, 7.7 rebounds, 7.0 assists, 1.9 steals, 1.1 blocks, 50.6% shooting, and all-time great defense.  I'd call that a wash with Durant.

[Jon]

Well, this settles it: http://www.mandatory.com/2012/07/12/which-basketball-dream-team-is-really-better/#page=1

(Granted, I think they rearranged certain players to certain matchups -- Bird vs. Westbrook, for example -- to emphasize the point a little. Still, I think that even if you score it 7-5 instead of 10-2, it still shows the 92 Team is better)

LOLOL!!!  I stopped after the first entry.  This is the most vivid proof at all that people can't get past nostalgia.  Magic Johnson is better than Chris Paul?  OK, sure, the 1983 version of Magic Johnson was.  But 1992 Johnson vs. 2012 Paul?  It's Paul, and it's not close.  Not a little bit close.

The same applies to Westbrook vs. Bird, and probably more so.  Westbrook is not as good as Paul, but Bird was already permanently retired by the time the Dream Team came along.  I think I get the feeling people bristle if I were to suggest 2012 Westbrook is better than 2012 Bird.  But he is, and he's clearly better than 1992 Bird, too.

Pippin is better than Durant?!?!?  At what, dissing Croatians?  Could we talk about basketball for a second?  No vintage of Scottie Pippin can compare with the current version of Durant.

The most interesting one is 1992 David Robinson vs. 2012 Kevin Love.  It's interesting because it's also not close, but in an interesting way.  For a 1992 NBA game, it's Robinson all the way.  For an international game, actually it's Love.  This can be seen by looking at how little a factor Robinsion actually was, in reality, in the Olympics.  Love's three-point shooting trumps Robinson's post-presence, because the international refs don't let you play in the post (and, shots rarely bounce off the rim and go in, because you're allowed to rebound the ball once it hits the rim).

A similar argument could be made for Carmelo Anthony vs. Karl Malone.  Anthony is made for the international game.  Watch any international game... including the 1992 US team... and count the pick-and-rolls.

John Stockton during the 1991-1992 NBA season was better then Deron Williams during the 2011-2012 NBA season, but again, Williams is better suited for international play, plus Stockton was injured in 1992, and barely played.

Finally, the size of the check mark in LeBron James's column is not nearly big enough.

You're overlooking a lot of things.  The primary one being what I stated above, the original Dream Team wasn't that old.  Really, the only old player was Larry Bird at 36.  

Magic was only 32 and just one year removed from leading the Kareem-less Lakers to the NBA Finals nearly by himself.  The only reason he was retired was because of the HIV diagnosis, which had no effect on his game.  

Kobe is going to be 34 in a month, just to let you know.

Everyone else was 30 or younger.  

[HowardAvellino]

If any one watched the game last night knows that the 2012 team is not as good as the 92 team.
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Very true.  I have tapes of all the 1992 games. The offense ran as smooth as silk with the '92 team with a large percentage of possessions resulting in dunks. That was why Barkley was the leading scorer as he was alone for a dunk so many times. MJ was the 5th leading scorer.

No, he wasn't.  He was the 2nd leading scorer:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/olympics/teams/USA/1992

Followed by Malone, Mullin, and Drexler.

Again, this was because the inside players (Malone was 2nd leading scorer) were getting wide open dunks due to great passing. David Robinson shot 76% (dunks). Pippen shot 67%; Drexler 69%.

You're probably right, but I can't find shooting percentage statistics.  Where are you getting this from?

I don't have the games on tape.  But what I remember is that there were very few post-ups.  How often did Robinsion, Ewing, or Malone get the ball in the post?

That's why it's surprising how everyone is turning to those guys to save the Dream Team.  People aren't getting the fact that you can't post up in international competition like you can in the NBA.  I don't actually think David Robinson would be all that successful against Tyson Chandler, even by 1992 NBA officiating standards.  But even if he was, changing the whole game plan to go to that just proves how much trouble the 1992 team would be in.

As far as Magic and Bird, they were still great. Bird had limits defensively but both were superb passers and shooters. Magic made a NBA 1/2 season comeback 5 years later and was a force (21 PER). Bird just finished his last year with a 21 PER, shooting 41% from 3, and 20/10/7 averages.

Nostalgia!!!

Magic was never a "superb shooter".  He had "limits defensively" on his best day.  He could never guard quick point guards; the Lakers always had someone else to do that.

You rounded up Bird's numbers.  They were 19.7/9.4/6.6.  Here's a number you missed: 45.  As in, the number of games he was able to play in.  And, he couldn't guard anybody, either.

[luvspiluv]

The '92 Dream Team were way smarter. They'd find a way to crush these bunch of spoiled brats.

[Eja117]

The '92 Dream Team were way smarter. They'd find a way to crush these bunch of spoiled brats.

I think they were a lot more competitive too. I think Magic, MJ, and Bird ate, breathed, and slept basketball, but these guys fit it in inbetween video games, twitter, etc

[HowardAvellino]

Magic Johnson is better than Chris Paul?  OK, sure, the 1983 version of Magic Johnson was.  But 1992 Johnson vs. 2012 Paul?  It's Paul, and it's not close.  Not a little bit close.

It's a lot closer than you think.

Magic was one year removed from putting up 19.4 points, 12.5 assists, and 7.0 rebounds on 47.7% shooting and 90.6% from the line. That's better than what CP3 put up last year.

You're neglecting to consider pace.  The 91 Lakers had five more possessions, per team, than the 2012 Clippers.  You're neglecting to consider the teammates they played with (which helps to accumulate assists) and the defenses they played against (much better in 2012).  And you're neglecting their defense.  Chris Paul was first-team All-Defense.  Johnson was usually hidden on defense (asked to guard the opponent's weakest backcourt player).

I don't think Magic's game fell off that much in one season,

No?  Why not?  Look how much Jordan's fell off when he stopped playing in the NBA.  He went from a .495 shooting percentage in 1993 to a .411 in 1995.  Sure, with months of dedicated training, he got back close to his former level, but Magic didn't have that.

even if he had HIV; the guy took four years off from the NBA and still averaged 14 points and 7 assists.

... playing power forward.

Pippin is better than Durant?!?!?  At what, dissing Croatians?  Could we talk about basketball for a second?  No vintage of Scottie Pippin can compare with the current version of Durant.

Maybe not better, but pretty equal.  21 points, 7.7 rebounds, 7.0 assists, 1.9 steals, 1.1 blocks, 50.6% shooting, and all-time great defense.  I'd call that a wash with Durant.

Dude, even you don't believe that.  I could see it just by reading it.  It's like you couldn't even make eye contact with the screen while you were typing.

Pippin was truly great defensively, you are right.  But offensively, it's is not at all close.  Pippin shot 20% from 3 and 76% on free throws (he had a good year; he was 70% for his career).  And that 50.6% was lower than his team's field goal percentage that year.  His true shooting percentage (mixing in threes and free throws) was 55.5%.  Durant's was 61.0%.  That's statistics.  If you watch the games, it's not actually that close.

[HowardAvellino]

The '92 Dream Team were way smarter. They'd find a way to crush these bunch of spoiled brats.

I think I rest my case.

But, just for the record: who exactly are you referring to on the 2012 team?

[HowardAvellino]

For the record:
Chris Mullin: 6'6", 200lbs
Deron Williams: 6'3", 209lbs

Clyde Drexler: 6'7", 210lbs
Russell Westbrook: 6'3", 187lbs

Size advantage?  Yes.  But not as much as you might think.  And consider the quickness advantage going the other way.

David Robinson:  7'1"
Karl Malone: 6'9"
Scottie Pippen: 6'8"
Michael Jordan: 6'6"
Magic Johnson: 6'8"

All of those guys were extraordinary athletes, and they had great size.

They had great size, but they didn't have a size advantage against the 2012 team.  I was trying to talk about the matchups where the 1992 team would have an advantage.

I hear "play Lebron at PF" a lot.  Lebron is going to get abused in the post against Malone, and he's not going to be able to help on other players as much.

That matchup would potentially happen, but I'd prefer to put Love on Malone (and LeBron on Barkley).  But, once again, you cannot post up in international competition the way you can in the NBA.  That's why the 2012 team is what it is.  If you wanted a post-up game, you could still pick players from 2012 to give the 1992 team a run.

The 2012 team is chosen much more wisely for international competition.  Remember also that the 3-point line is closer, so outside shooting is even more valuable.

If you were Chuck Daly and you wanted to take the ball out of Michael Jordan's and Clyde Drexler's hands to throw it into Malone in the post, you could do that.  I don't think it will work.

Chandler would be worn down by Robinson, and if backups were in, Ewing vs. Bosh is laughable.  Who else does the 2012 team have for big men?  Kevin Love and Blake Griffin?  Good luck against Charles Barkley, who would eat them both alive.

Sorry for repeating myself, but: shouldn't the hypothetical be based on actual occurrences?  The 1992 team did not particularly dominate inside.  I mean, they dominated everywhere, because they were playing against guys who would not have made the NBA if it had expanded to 300 teams, but post play was where they dominated least.  They dunked a lot, but because of fast breaks, not because of post-ups (or offensive rebounds).  Again: Mullin and Drexler were among the top five scorers.  Robinson and Ewing were at the bottom.

[flyofchange]

The '92 Dream Team were way smarter. They'd find a way to crush these bunch of spoiled brats.

I think I rest my case.

But, just for the record: who exactly are you referring to on the 2012 team?

You seem to know alot about international ball. Are you aware that handchecking is allowed under international rules? Besides Kobe, who on the 2012 roster has experienced that?

EVERYONE on the dream team roster played in the toughest, most physical era in nba history.

Now take a minute and think about how that changes everything!

The fact that your even trying to argue the case for the 2012 team is laughable.

Think about it, these guys that are playing in todays ticky-tack foul era are gonna be HAND-CHECKED and defended by PRIME Jordan, PRIME PIPPEN, easy the 2 best defenders at thier position in NBA history!

I REST MY CASE!