The strategy ORL should be employing

[Rondoholic]

The proposed trade for Howard to the Nets makes me so angry. The Magic would be absolute morons to do this. Sure, they get 3 1st round picks but who knows how high any of these picks would be. And...they would taking on 1-dimensional, never healthy Brook Lopez on a max contract??? Are you kidding me? Not to mention, you are catering to Howard and sending him where he wants to go. If he's going to get to Brooklyn eventually, at least punish him before he gets there in free agency.

The Magic should simply be offering Howard up to teams for other guys on 1 yr deals, taking the downgrade, and hoping to sign the player(s) they acquire. The other team would hypothetically not mind taking on Howard on a 1 yr rental because they could very well be losing the player(s) they are trading anyway the following yr.

I just thought of this trade:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=86z2ohj

The Magic trade Howard to Utah for both Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap, who get this, are both in the final yr of their respective contracts.

Orlando then owns the bird rights to these guys and can sign them in the offseason for more money than other teams can offer. And you're telling me these guys wouldn't be attracted to playing in Orlando for the long haul over Utah?

I also love this trade because it absolutely sticks it to Howard and sends him to Utah to play out the final yr of his contract.

I just feel like this puts Orlando in a much better situation than taking on Brook Lopez for max money. I'd take my chances with proven guys who are also on 1 yr deals.

After all, Utah is already trying to build around Kanter and Favors for the long haul and will probably lose Jefferson and Millsap in FA next offseason. They could benefit from acquiring Howard on a 1 yr rental for ticket sales and to buy some time for their young guys.

Thoughts if you're Orlando? I have a feeling Howard wouldn't report if he was traded to Utah but would a guy really leave $20M on the table?

[MBunge]

The proposed trade for Howard to the Nets makes me so angry. The Magic would be absolute morons to do this. Sure, they get 3 1st round picks but who knows how high any of these picks would be. And...they would taking on 1-dimensional, never healthy Brook Lopez on a max contract??? Are you kidding me? Not to mention, you are catering to Howard and sending him where he wants to go. If he's going to get to Brooklyn eventually, at least punish him before he gets there in free agency.

The Magic should simply be offering Howard up to teams for other guys on 1 yr deals, taking the downgrade, and hoping to sign the player(s) they acquire. The other team would hypothetically not mind taking on Howard on a 1 yr rental because they could very well be losing the player(s) they are trading anyway the following yr.

I just thought of this trade:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=86z2ohj

The Magic trade Howard to Utah for both Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap, who get this, are both in the final yr of their respective contracts.

Orlando then owns the bird rights to these guys and can sign them in the offseason for more money than other teams can offer. And you're telling me these guys wouldn't be attracted to playing in Orlando for the long haul over Utah?

I also love this trade because it absolutely sticks it to Howard and sends him to Utah to play out the final yr of his contract.

I just feel like this puts Orlando in a much better situation than taking on Brook Lopez for max money. I'd take my chances with proven guys who are also on 1 yr deals.

After all, Utah is already trying to build around Kanter and Favors for the long haul and will probably lose Jefferson and Millsap in FA next offseason. They could benefit from acquiring Howard on a 1 yr rental for ticket sales and to buy some time for their young guys.

Thoughts if you're Orlando? I have a feeling Howard wouldn't report if he was traded to Utah but would a guy really leave $20M on the table?

In all the complaints about this 4 team deal, one thing is being overlooked.  Orlando is screwed right now.  They have very little talent outside of Dwight and too much salary.  They've got Turkeyglue for 2 more years and 23 million, Big Baby for 3 years and 19, Jason Richardson for 3 years and 18 million and Chris freakin' Duhon for 2 years and 7.5 million.  And that's not counting whatever Jameer Nelson's new deal is going to be.  AND while they amnestied Gilbert Arenas, that just means his salary doesn't count against the cap.  I believe they're still on the hook for most of the 40 million dollars left on that deal.  Let's say they get Andrew Bynum for Dwight.  Does that make them a championship contender?  No.  Neither would Al and Milsap or any other players you want to imagine they might trade Dwight for.  And a talent for talent trade doesn't do anything for their salary mistakes or does anything to help them rebuild.

People have talke about how Ainge should have blown up the Celtics at some point in the last couple years.  Well, this is what blowing it up looks like.  Not very pretty, is it?

Mike

[greenpride32]

I'm guessing ORL is going to tank it for a few years and hope Stern feels bad enough to gift them a #1 in a draft with a franchise player.  

BTW you also need to look at it from the perspective of the other team; how much would you give up for what would most likely be a one year rental, and having a guy around who doesn't want to be there?  Just look at all the fallout from Dwight being unhappy in ORL last season.

[Rondoholic]

The proposed trade for Howard to the Nets makes me so angry. The Magic would be absolute morons to do this. Sure, they get 3 1st round picks but who knows how high any of these picks would be. And...they would taking on 1-dimensional, never healthy Brook Lopez on a max contract??? Are you kidding me? Not to mention, you are catering to Howard and sending him where he wants to go. If he's going to get to Brooklyn eventually, at least punish him before he gets there in free agency.

The Magic should simply be offering Howard up to teams for other guys on 1 yr deals, taking the downgrade, and hoping to sign the player(s) they acquire. The other team would hypothetically not mind taking on Howard on a 1 yr rental because they could very well be losing the player(s) they are trading anyway the following yr.

I just thought of this trade:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=86z2ohj

The Magic trade Howard to Utah for both Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap, who get this, are both in the final yr of their respective contracts.

Orlando then owns the bird rights to these guys and can sign them in the offseason for more money than other teams can offer. And you're telling me these guys wouldn't be attracted to playing in Orlando for the long haul over Utah?

I also love this trade because it absolutely sticks it to Howard and sends him to Utah to play out the final yr of his contract.

I just feel like this puts Orlando in a much better situation than taking on Brook Lopez for max money. I'd take my chances with proven guys who are also on 1 yr deals.

After all, Utah is already trying to build around Kanter and Favors for the long haul and will probably lose Jefferson and Millsap in FA next offseason. They could benefit from acquiring Howard on a 1 yr rental for ticket sales and to buy some time for their young guys.

Thoughts if you're Orlando? I have a feeling Howard wouldn't report if he was traded to Utah but would a guy really leave $20M on the table?

In all the complaints about this 4 team deal, one thing is being overlooked.  Orlando is screwed right now.  They have very little talent outside of Dwight and too much salary.  They've got Turkeyglue for 2 more years and 23 million, Big Baby for 3 years and 19, Jason Richardson for 3 years and 18 million and Chris freakin' Duhon for 2 years and 7.5 million.  And that's not counting whatever Jameer Nelson's new deal is going to be.  AND while they amnestied Gilbert Arenas, that just means his salary doesn't count against the cap.  I believe they're still on the hook for most of the 40 million dollars left on that deal.  Let's say they get Andrew Bynum for Dwight.  Does that make them a championship contender?  No.  Neither would Al and Milsap or any other players you want to imagine they might trade Dwight for.  And a talent for talent trade doesn't do anything for their salary mistakes or does anything to help them rebuild.

People have talke about how Ainge should have blown up the Celtics at some point in the last couple years.  Well, this is what blowing it up looks like.  Not very pretty, is it?

Mike

Al and Millsap would be easier/more likely to re-sign than Bynum. Then how do you explain the fact that they would taking Brook Lopez for max money (a contract that he doesn't deserve) if their sole goal of trading Howard is blowing everything up and starting over? So start over with a bad contract immediately? Sounds brilliant...not very pretty at all.

[MBunge]

Al and Millsap would be easier/more likely to re-sign than Bynum. Then how do you explain the fact that they would taking Brook Lopez for max money (a contract that he doesn't deserve) if their sole goal of trading Howard is blowing everything up and starting over? So start over with a bad contract immediately? Sounds brilliant...not very pretty at all.

1.  It doesn't matter if Al and Milsap are likely to resign or not.  The point is that adding them to Orlando's current roster doesn't make them any better and doesn't help solve any of their other roster problems.

2.  Here are Brook Lopez' stats for his first three seasons in the league.

13 pts, 8.1 rebs, 1.8 blocks
18.8 pts, 8.6 rebs, 1.7 blocks
20.4 pts, 6 rebs, 1.5 blocks

Here's KG's numbers from this past regular season.

15.8 pts, 8.2 rebs, 1 block

Here's Andrew Bynum's numbers from this past regular season.

18.7 pts, 11.8 rebs, 1.9 blocks

Here's Omer Asik's numbers this past regular season.

3.1 pts, 5.3 rebs, 1 block

Here's the contract Asik's been offered by the Rockets.

3 years, 25.1 million dollars

You gonna tell me that Lopez isn't worth at least twice what Asik's getting on the open market?

Mike

[Gainesville Celtic]

I'm actually a little surprised ORL isn't willing to call Howard's bluff.

Tell him: "OK, we're not trading you. You can play out the season and sign as a FA with any team you like.... Oh, there aren't any teams you want to sign with with cap room? Sorry Charlie. We'll work with ya to get somewhere but it has to work for us too."

ORL would have Howard's Bird Rights and could S&T him for the same pu-pu-platter of junk then as they could now.

The risk, of course, is that Howard signs somewhere for the MLE -- which for someone with a back issue would be borderline insane. Refusing to work with ORL next summer would likely cost him $10-50

Part of the reason the probably aren't willing is the great point Mike makes:

Mike makes a great point here:

In all the complaints about this 4 team deal, one thing is being overlooked.  Orlando is screwed right now.  They have very little talent outside of Dwight and too much salary.  They've got Turkeyglue for 2 more years and 23 million, Big Baby for 3 years and 19, Jason Richardson for 3 years and 18 million and Chris freakin' Duhon for 2 years and 7.5 million.  And that's not counting whatever Jameer Nelson's new deal is going to be.  AND while they amnestied Gilbert Arenas, that just means his salary doesn't count against the cap.  I believe they're still on the hook for most of the 40 million dollars left on that deal.  Let's say they get Andrew Bynum for Dwight.  Does that make them a championship contender?  No.  Neither would Al and Milsap or any other players you want to imagine they might trade Dwight for.  And a talent for talent trade doesn't do anything for their salary mistakes or does anything to help them rebuild.

But I still can't imagine a creative team like OKC, BOS, HOU or ATL wouldn't move heaven/earth to create room and/or take on bad contracts NEXT summer if it meant getting Howard.

[Gainesville Celtic]

I"m also a LOT surprised that the reported outline of the deal has Marshon Brooks being sent to a 4th team for a draft pick.

Unless that team is TOR or PHO (or a team that looks to be really bad in a year or 3), I'd much rather have, if I was ORL, Marshon Brooks --- who's showed he can score in the NBA.

Perhaps the salaries don't work, but I can't imagine they couldn't just sign Brook Lopez for a little less and get Brooks to ORL.

[Rondoholic]

Al and Millsap would be easier/more likely to re-sign than Bynum. Then how do you explain the fact that they would taking Brook Lopez for max money (a contract that he doesn't deserve) if their sole goal of trading Howard is blowing everything up and starting over? So start over with a bad contract immediately? Sounds brilliant...not very pretty at all.

1.  It doesn't matter if Al and Milsap are likely to resign or not.  The point is that adding them to Orlando's current roster doesn't make them any better and doesn't help solve any of their other roster problems.

2.  Here are Brook Lopez' stats for his first three seasons in the league.

13 pts, 8.1 rebs, 1.8 blocks
18.8 pts, 8.6 rebs, 1.7 blocks
20.4 pts, 6 rebs, 1.5 blocks

Here's KG's numbers from this past regular season.

15.8 pts, 8.2 rebs, 1 block

Here's Andrew Bynum's numbers from this past regular season.

18.7 pts, 11.8 rebs, 1.9 blocks

Here's Omer Asik's numbers this past regular season.

3.1 pts, 5.3 rebs, 1 block

Here's the contract Asik's been offered by the Rockets.

3 years, 25.1 million dollars

You gonna tell me that Lopez isn't worth at least twice what Asik's getting on the open market?

Mike

I understand your point and Lopez will probably get max money but you can't just trot out numbers of players and say they're comparable.

Lopez has played on terrible NJ teams his first few years in the league where he has been a central part of their offense playing many minutes and taking many shots. The guy averaged 3.0 rebounds last year albeit injury-plagued and limited games. He is soft on defense.

Asik reminds me of Gortat, who if you looked at his stats playing behind Howard in Orlando would look probably similar to Asik's last year in Chicago playing behind Noah. Don't think he's as good as Gortat but he got signed for potential. I think we've seen the extent of what Brook Lopez is as a player.

I agree that all indications are that Lopez will get paid, but for a team who wants to rid themselves of bad contracts, it seems they would be starting right over with another bad contract.

[mqtcelticsfan]

The Jazz would have to agree to that trade, too. Unless they suddenly became the Nets and I missed the news, they won't trade for Howard, as he won't re-sign with them ever.

[Rondoholic]

The Jazz would have to agree to that trade, too. Unless they suddenly became the Nets and I missed the news, they won't trade for Howard, as he won't re-sign with them ever.

This is my point. Orlando needs to trade him to a team for that team's expiring deals. What would it matter to Utah if they have already determined they don't want to bring back Jefferson and Millsap. They would be gaining a better player for the year, a better trade chip at the deadline, etc. My point is that Orlando would be better off trading him for expiring deals rather than locking themselves into max contracts for a guy like Brook Lopez.

[TripleOT]

The three years Lopez put up decent numbers, his team went 69-177.  This past season, he played 5 games due to foot injuries. 

It would be insane to give this guy a max deal.   

[cman88]

Orlando needs to call Dwights bluff....they hold all the cards..if he leaves next summer, he CANT go to brooklyn

Trade him to a team that gives you the best offer...he says he wont re-sign..but whats he going to do next summer? go and sign for the mini-MLE to play in brooklyn?

Howard has no leverage here and the Magic would be stupid to take a bad deal just to move him somewhere HE wants to go

[wdleehi]

If you add Jason Richards, it still works.

[celtsfan84]

Al and Millsap would be easier/more likely to re-sign than Bynum. Then how do you explain the fact that they would taking Brook Lopez for max money (a contract that he doesn't deserve) if their sole goal of trading Howard is blowing everything up and starting over? So start over with a bad contract immediately? Sounds brilliant...not very pretty at all.

1.  It doesn't matter if Al and Milsap are likely to resign or not.  The point is that adding them to Orlando's current roster doesn't make them any better and doesn't help solve any of their other roster problems.

2.  Here are Brook Lopez' stats for his first three seasons in the league.

13 pts, 8.1 rebs, 1.8 blocks
18.8 pts, 8.6 rebs, 1.7 blocks
20.4 pts, 6 rebs, 1.5 blocks

Here's KG's numbers from this past regular season.

15.8 pts, 8.2 rebs, 1 block

Here's Andrew Bynum's numbers from this past regular season.

18.7 pts, 11.8 rebs, 1.9 blocks

Here's Omer Asik's numbers this past regular season.

3.1 pts, 5.3 rebs, 1 block

Here's the contract Asik's been offered by the Rockets.

3 years, 25.1 million dollars

You gonna tell me that Lopez isn't worth at least twice what Asik's getting on the open market?

Mike

And you also know that those guys played on different teams, with different quality of players around them, with a different distribution of shots, with a different number of minutes, etc... I could go on.  Not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

Asik is a far better defensive player.  Asik is a far better rebounder.  Lopez is a far better offensive player.  I fail to see how Lopez is a max level guy, solves Orlando's roster problems, or makes the Turkoglu, Richardson, Duhon, Davis contracts all magically go away.

And a 6 rebound a game season for a 7 footer who plays 35 minutes on a bad team is pretty pathetic, by the way.  All those numbers show is that he got a lot of shots because his team sucked.

[celtsfan84]

The proposed trade for Howard to the Nets makes me so angry. The Magic would be absolute morons to do this. Sure, they get 3 1st round picks but who knows how high any of these picks would be. And...they would taking on 1-dimensional, never healthy Brook Lopez on a max contract??? Are you kidding me? Not to mention, you are catering to Howard and sending him where he wants to go. If he's going to get to Brooklyn eventually, at least punish him before he gets there in free agency.

The Magic should simply be offering Howard up to teams for other guys on 1 yr deals, taking the downgrade, and hoping to sign the player(s) they acquire. The other team would hypothetically not mind taking on Howard on a 1 yr rental because they could very well be losing the player(s) they are trading anyway the following yr.

I just thought of this trade:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=86z2ohj

The Magic trade Howard to Utah for both Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap, who get this, are both in the final yr of their respective contracts.

Orlando then owns the bird rights to these guys and can sign them in the offseason for more money than other teams can offer. And you're telling me these guys wouldn't be attracted to playing in Orlando for the long haul over Utah?

I also love this trade because it absolutely sticks it to Howard and sends him to Utah to play out the final yr of his contract.

I just feel like this puts Orlando in a much better situation than taking on Brook Lopez for max money. I'd take my chances with proven guys who are also on 1 yr deals.

After all, Utah is already trying to build around Kanter and Favors for the long haul and will probably lose Jefferson and Millsap in FA next offseason. They could benefit from acquiring Howard on a 1 yr rental for ticket sales and to buy some time for their young guys.

Thoughts if you're Orlando? I have a feeling Howard wouldn't report if he was traded to Utah but would a guy really leave $20M on the table?

In all the complaints about this 4 team deal, one thing is being overlooked.  Orlando is screwed right now.  They have very little talent outside of Dwight and too much salary.  They've got Turkeyglue for 2 more years and 23 million, Big Baby for 3 years and 19, Jason Richardson for 3 years and 18 million and Chris freakin' Duhon for 2 years and 7.5 million.  And that's not counting whatever Jameer Nelson's new deal is going to be.  AND while they amnestied Gilbert Arenas, that just means his salary doesn't count against the cap.  I believe they're still on the hook for most of the 40 million dollars left on that deal.  Let's say they get Andrew Bynum for Dwight.  Does that make them a championship contender?  No.  Neither would Al and Milsap or any other players you want to imagine they might trade Dwight for.  And a talent for talent trade doesn't do anything for their salary mistakes or does anything to help them rebuild.

People have talke about how Ainge should have blown up the Celtics at some point in the last couple years.  Well, this is what blowing it up looks like.  Not very pretty, is it?

Mike

This isn't really what "blowing it up" looks like at all, actually.  When people say "blow it up", they mean let all contracts for older players expire, pick up younger players and draft picks, and rebuild over the long haul.

Like Oklahoma City did.  Like Indiana did.

You can blow up a roster without signing awful contracts and trading a 1st ballot Hall of Famer for junk.  It's been done before.