Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)

[Crushmaster]

Then on top of ALL of that you have the intangibles - Ray was obviously a locker room problem who didn't get along with Rondo, and had a major issue with coming off the bench as well as being unappy sacrificing his shots.  All signs so far suggest that Green gets along with everyone, is happy to come off the bench, and has no care whatsoever about how big a part of the offense he is.

So tell me again, how is Allen's contract acceptable while Green's is rediculous?

So Ray Allen has played, what, 16 years in the NBA - five with the Celts,- and he's had a platinum rep all along, never any talk of him being a locker-room cancer, and this is your conclusion, that he was "obviously a locker room problem"? Based on what?

[rayallen1934]

Neither is Jeff Green though. And Jeff Green has never once in his career been worth that much.

Whereas Ray has been, just in terms of putting the ball in the basket, passing it, not turning it over. Yet people around here are acting as if Ray was trying to steal from the Celtics.

Jeff Green is 26 years old, Ray Allen is 36 years old.

Going into the last year of their contacts Jeff Green will be 28, will be in his prime, and will still be playing at a high level for years to come.  Even if he doesn't fit the team by that time, he will still be young, athletic and versatile so he will always have solid trade value. 

Ray will be 38, and will be about as effective as Mike Bibby was in Miami - good enough for about 10 minutes a game and capable of hitting the occasional big shot, but otherwise a major liability.  Hell he might even be retired, leaving boston with a $9 million cap commitment to a guy who's not even playing.  Plus Ray requested a no trade clause, so if he IS useless buy this point, Boston can't even get anyone back for him.

Now this is all based purely on your insistence that Ray is a more productive player - lets take a look at that theory.

----------------------------------
Stat | Allen | Green
----------------------------------
OREB% | 1.1% | 3.7%
DREB% | 9.3% | 13.8%
REB% | 5.4% | 8.9%
AST% | 11.6% | 7.5%
AST Ratio | 15.2 | 9.5
TO Ratio | 9.49 | 8.73
Restrict area | 63% | 66%
In the Paint | 38% | 34%
Mid Range | 39% | 40%
Corner 3 | 48% | 44%
Above Break 3 | 43% | 25%

So looking at the stats above, how is it that Ray is worth 9M right now, but Green is not?  The only statistic that stands out in Ray's favour shooting wise is above-break three.  Everywhere else they pretty much average out.

Other then shooting Ray Allen gives 1.6x more assists wise, while Green gives 1.6x more rebounds - again that about evens out...especially on the offensive rebounds, where Green is nearly 3.4x more productive then Ray.  So based on statistics alone, the two are pretty even.   

Green did all of this in only 22 minutes or so off the bench for a Boston team he'd only played half a season with, while playing with a (as yet undetected) heart condition.  Ray put up those numbers playing in a system he's been in for the past 5 years, with players he's known for what seems like forever, and in an offensive scheme that (through all the fancy screens) was largely designed with his offensive game in mind.

You can add on top of this the fact that Green's defense is also superior beyond compare to Allen's at this point in time.

Oh, and Green also has the flexibility to play two positions (SF or PF) - sure he may be more efficient at SF, but against second-tier PF's he is more then capable.  This gives makes him added insurance because he can fill in both roles if somebody gets hurt or in foul trouble.   Ray is a pure SG because he lacks the quickness and handles to play PG or the size/strength to play SF.

Then on top of ALL of that you have the intangibles - Ray was obviously a locker room problem who didn't get along with Rondo, and had a major issue with coming off the bench as well as being unappy sacrificing his shots.  All signs so far suggest that Green gets along with everyone, is happy to come off the bench, and has no care whatsoever about how big a part of the offense he is.

So tell me again, how is Ray Allen for 9 million over 3 years with a no trade MORE appealing than Jeff Green over 3 years for similar money and without a no trade clause?

Last year, we were absolutely dominant when we had Ray's production coming off the bench.  This year we have easilly replaced Ray's production with that of Jeff Green AND added Jason Terry on top of that - a guy who is also at least as productive off the bench as Ray is.  Then to add to all that, it looks like we have a pretty good chance of getting either Courtney Lee or OJ Majo as well.  When Bradley comes back that's the equivalent of at least 2.5x Ray Allen's production coming off the bench...while our starting lineup has essentially lost nothing at all.

your sipping some good wine

absolutely dominant?

[D Dub]

'Truck        Ray       Allen'
clapclap clap clapclap
(repeat)

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Neither is Jeff Green though. And Jeff Green has never once in his career been worth that much.

Whereas Ray has been, just in terms of putting the ball in the basket, passing it, not turning it over. Yet people around here are acting as if Ray was trying to steal from the Celtics.

Jeff Green is 26 years old, Ray Allen is 36 years old.

Going into the last year of their contacts Jeff Green will be 28, will be in his prime, and will still be playing at a high level for years to come.  Even if he doesn't fit the team by that time, he will still be young, athletic and versatile so he will always have solid trade value. 

Ray will be 38, and will be about as effective as Mike Bibby was in Miami - good enough for about 10 minutes a game and capable of hitting the occasional big shot, but otherwise a major liability.  Hell he might even be retired, leaving boston with a $9 million cap commitment to a guy who's not even playing.  Plus Ray requested a no trade clause, so if he IS useless buy this point, Boston can't even get anyone back for him.

Now this is all based purely on your insistence that Ray is a more productive player - lets take a look at that theory.

----------------------------------
Stat | Allen | Green
----------------------------------
OREB% | 1.1% | 3.7%
DREB% | 9.3% | 13.8%
REB% | 5.4% | 8.9%
AST% | 11.6% | 7.5%
AST Ratio | 15.2 | 9.5
TO Ratio | 9.49 | 8.73
Restrict area | 63% | 66%
In the Paint | 38% | 34%
Mid Range | 39% | 40%
Corner 3 | 48% | 44%
Above Break 3 | 43% | 25%

So looking at the stats above, how is it that Ray is worth 9M right now, but Green is not?  The only statistic that stands out in Ray's favour shooting wise is above-break three.  Everywhere else they pretty much average out.

Other then shooting Ray Allen gives 1.6x more assists wise, while Green gives 1.6x more rebounds - again that about evens out...especially on the offensive rebounds, where Green is nearly 3.4x more productive then Ray.  So based on statistics alone, the two are pretty even.   

Green did all of this in only 22 minutes or so off the bench for a Boston team he'd only played half a season with, while playing with a (as yet undetected) heart condition.  Ray put up those numbers playing in a system he's been in for the past 5 years, with players he's known for what seems like forever, and in an offensive scheme that (through all the fancy screens) was largely designed with his offensive game in mind.

You can add on top of this the fact that Green's defense is also superior beyond compare to Allen's at this point in time.

Oh, and Green also has the flexibility to play two positions (SF or PF) - sure he may be more efficient at SF, but against second-tier PF's he is more then capable.  This gives makes him added insurance because he can fill in both roles if somebody gets hurt or in foul trouble.   Ray is a pure SG because he lacks the quickness and handles to play PG or the size/strength to play SF.

Then on top of ALL of that you have the intangibles - Ray was obviously a locker room problem who didn't get along with Rondo, and had a major issue with coming off the bench as well as being unappy sacrificing his shots.  All signs so far suggest that Green gets along with everyone, is happy to come off the bench, and has no care whatsoever about how big a part of the offense he is.

So tell me again, how is Ray Allen for 9 million over 3 years with a no trade MORE appealing than Jeff Green over 3 years for similar money and without a no trade clause?

Last year, we were absolutely dominant when we had Ray's production coming off the bench.  This year we have easilly replaced Ray's production with that of Jeff Green AND added Jason Terry on top of that - a guy who is also at least as productive off the bench as Ray is.  Then to add to all that, it looks like we have a pretty good chance of getting either Courtney Lee or OJ Majo as well.  When Bradley comes back that's the equivalent of at least 2.5x Ray Allen's production coming off the bench...while our starting lineup has essentially lost nothing at all.

your sipping some good wine

absolutely dominant?

I'm not talking about the other stuff said but, I think given what we had to go through and came out 20-8, yes that was pretty dominant.

-Players lost for season
-The few players we had who had to play a lot more because of #1
-Age of the players
-Injured players who had to pretty much hobble out there because of #1
-Extremely condensed schedule
-After the starters we had a bunch of scrubs/injured/rookies/in and out players
-Inside conflict (RR and Ray that we didn't know about... Ray and AB, we were lied to about Ray being cool)


I could be forgetting something but add all that together... we went 20-8... DOMINANT!

[crimson_stallion]

So Ray Allen has played, what, 16 years in the NBA - five with the Celts,- and he's had a platinum rep all along, never any talk of him being a locker-room cancer, and this is your conclusion, that he was "obviously a locker room problem"? Based on what?

Assuming all of the reports going around are correct...

1. Ray Allen had an issue getting along with Rondo that nobody else on the team seemed to have. 

2. Bass was our 6th man last season, giving us 12-14 points off the bench every night, and we were great when we were getting that.  When Oneal went down we had to start Bass, and since that day we had no consistent scoring whatsoever.  Boston really needed Ray's scoring to to give them some kind of presense off the bench, but he seemed to take offense to this and see it as undervaluing his abilities.

There are other guys in the league like Ginobilli, Terry and Harden who are more then good enough to be starters in this league, but they come off the bench because they know it's what's best for their team - the understand they are still just as valuable to their team,  they are just contributing in a different way.

Ray could have looked at his situation in that same positive light and realised that he was still just as valuable to his team, but it seems he was too proud to see it that way. 

your sipping some good wine

absolutely dominant?

Obviously it may not be the most technically correct use of the terms, but pretty much. 

Boston have always struggled with bench scoring.  This past season that was supposed to be rectified by adding Jeff Green and Brandon Bass, but Green never played a game and Bass got moved to the starting 5 when Oneal got injured.  When Ray was coming off the bench it filled a LOT of that gap.  The Celtics where much more dangerous - they put constant pressure on opposing defenses rather then giving them a break everytime the starters sat down.

But Ray allegedly didn't exactly accept the role with open arms. 

As I said don't get me wrong - I still love Ray Allen as a player and I still think he's a good guy, but I just don't think his presence in the locker room was necessarilly doing them any favours.

[Freebo]

he simply made a stupid stupid choice, and that's the end of it. I still respect him and who he is, and I'm absolutely certain that he regrets it, looking back. Maybe he felt that he needs totally different surroundings to contribute, and he went to Miami. The only thing that is sad, is that he chose such despicable group of players.

It needs to be said that, everyone was trying to trade him, Danny & Co., no one was particularly happy about the fact that he wasn't traded, everyone was bashing and trading him on these forums before he made his decision. It's only normal for him to feel like crap and unwanted. I don't get why some people that tried to trade him, come now and call him "traitor"

Like I said, a stupid choice, but there is no reason this should hunt our forums forever