Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)

[The Walker Wiggle]

My point is that he's on the decline. Ray has the skills on a role player now. And to overpay for a person who can't create a shot on his own at this stage of his career with abysmal defense he possesses, I'm glad Danny made the right decision

Ray Allen Value at Minutes Played (11-12) - $10 million
Jason Terry Value at Minutes Played (11-12) - $3.74 million
Jeff Green Value at Minutes Played (10-11) - $2.56 million

[OsirusCeltics]

My point is that he's on the decline. Ray has the skills on a role player now. And to overpay for a person who can't create a shot on his own at this stage of his career with abysmal defense he possesses, I'm glad Danny made the right decision

Ray Allen Value at Minutes Played (11-12) - $10 million
Jason Terry Value at Minutes Played (11-12) - $3.74 million
Jeff Green Value at Minutes Played (10-11) - $2.56 million

Member Austin Croschere getting a huge contract after his play in the 2000 NBA Finals?
Since when does a contract mean you're a great player?

Not that Ray Allen isn't one, but at this stage of his career, he's a role player now

[The Walker Wiggle]

My point is that he's on the decline. Ray has the skills on a role player now. And to overpay for a person who can't create a shot on his own at this stage of his career with abysmal defense he possesses, I'm glad Danny made the right decision

Ray Allen Value at Minutes Played (11-12) - $10 million
Jason Terry Value at Minutes Played (11-12) - $3.74 million
Jeff Green Value at Minutes Played (10-11) - $2.56 million

Member Austin Croschere getting a huge contract after his play in the 2000 NBA Finals?
Since when does a contract mean you're a great player?

Not that Ray Allen isn't one, but at this stage of his career, he's a role player now

The above is what each guy would've earned given his on court production. Maybe confusing because Ray actually earned what he got paid last year. Jet earned over $11 million last season. Jeff Green signed a 1 year $9 million dollar deal before being waived.

The lesson? Shooting the ball well is worth a lot of money. Not shooting the ball that well, but shooting it often will lose your team games, but also often fool them into overpaying you.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

My point is that he's on the decline. Ray has the skills on a role player now. And to overpay for a person who can't create a shot on his own at this stage of his career with abysmal defense he possesses, I'm glad Danny made the right decision

Ray Allen Value at Minutes Played (11-12) - $10 million
Jason Terry Value at Minutes Played (11-12) - $3.74 million
Jeff Green Value at Minutes Played (10-11) - $2.56 million

Member Austin Croschere getting a huge contract after his play in the 2000 NBA Finals?
Since when does a contract mean you're a great player?

Not that Ray Allen isn't one, but at this stage of his career, he's a role player now

The above is what each guy would've earned given his on court production. Maybe confusing because Ray actually earned what he got paid last year. Jet earned over $11 million last season. Jeff Green signed a 1 year $9 million dollar deal before being waived.

The lesson? Shooting the ball well is worth a lot of money. Not shooting the ball that well, but shooting it often will lose your team games, but also often fool them into overpaying you.

Wait, Terry only deserves to be paid under 4mil? Just because Ray had RR to pass him the ball and when he was in the game the offense was run around him doesn't mean he should have been paid 10mil. Heck Novac was shooting lights out at one point... does he deserve 10mil too? It wasn't like Ray was out there doing much but making baskets (great at that but that's it). The 9 mil per Ray was asking for is too much. If Mia had 3/27 to give a player, I highly doubt it would've been used on Ray!

[BballTim]

Or maybe Ray is just a jerk.  Either way....Let him try to fit in with the two biggest narcissists in basketball.

I've honestly been surprised by the level of outrage. I suppose how easily everyone is offended is just a sign of the times. Had Ray forced his way out of town while cashing Boston's pay checks, a la Melo or Howard, that wold be one thing. Instead he gutted it out in the playoffs and produced, and over his five year tenure conceded more shots, minutes, and money than either Garnett or Pierce for less recognition.

  Ray's been a lesser player than PP or KG for a long time. It's true that he sacrificed his game, but that's reasonable given the pecking order on the team.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Wait, Terry only deserves to be paid under 4mil? Just because Ray had RR to pass him the ball and when he was in the game the offense was run around him doesn't mean he should have been paid 10mil. Heck Novac was shooting lights out at one point... does he deserve 10mil too? It wasn't like Ray was out there doing much but making baskets (great at that but that's it). The 9 mil per Ray was asking for is too much. If Mia had 3/27 to give a player, I highly doubt it would've been used on Ray!

I don't know what to tell you. Jet shot just 43% with Dallas last year, his lowest mark in eight seasons with the team. Ray scored 1.33 points per shot last season, Terry scored 1.14 points per shot. The league average for a shooting guard is 1.16 PPS. Ray shot 45.3% from behind the arc. Terry shot a still respectable 37.8% Both are below average rebounders, both are above average at taking care of the ball.

Novak is an interesting case. He broke out last year, posting 1.42 PPS. Ray still outproduced him though, because while you may think Ray did nothing but make shots, that's actually the case with Steve, 0.6 Assists per 48. 0.8 Steals per 48. Just 1.2 FTA.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Value at Minutes Played is close to a perfect correlation. But by the #s, Novak was worth $1.99 million, in this case, that seems fairly accurate, no?

[RebusRankin]

He's not worth 9 million a year at this point.

[The Walker Wiggle]

He's not worth 9 million a year at this point.

Neither is Jeff Green though. And Jeff Green has never once in his career been worth that much.

Whereas Ray has been, just in terms of putting the ball in the basket, passing it, not turning it over. Yet people around here are acting as if Ray was trying to steal from the Celtics.

[StartOrien]

He's not worth 9 million a year at this point.

Neither is Jeff Green though. And Jeff Green has never once in his career been worth that much.

Whereas Ray has been, just in terms of putting the ball in the basket, passing it, not turning it over. Yet people around here are acting as if Ray was trying to steal from the Celtics.

as much as I disliked the green contract, surely you see why its more justifiable than the proposed 3 year 27 million dollar contract allen wanted, tww

[eugen]

He's not worth 9 million a year at this point.

Is a lie, he never asked 9 millions per years. Wyc told that @radio

[TripleOT]

[Wyc]  also alluded that Ray Allen wasnt returning his calls which lead the C's to pursue terry

If this is the case, Ray Allen is a major league ingrate. 

[Celtics4ever]

He really was not worth more than the money he got at the end of the year.

[cman88]

He's not worth 9 million a year at this point.

Is a lie, he never asked 9 millions per years. Wyc told that @radio

na, wyc mentioned that allen asked for the 9million$ or at least alluded to it on felger and mazz

There was another report in the Boston Herald that Allen wanted triple what the Heat were offering -- "Let's put it this way," Grousbeck started, "Ray named numbers that were- he would have come back if we had- I believe he would have come back if we had hit a large number that would have precluded us under the $74 million cap and basically signing other people that we needed. So it wasn't fitting into the program."

[winsomme]

So I was just listening to Sportsnet and their reporting of Ray's press conference and the part that is still sitting with me was when Ray said he spoke with KG before he made his decision.

I don't remember what he said word for word, but the gist of it was this:

I called KG and said this is what I'm thinking (ie what his decision was) without giving him all the specifics and then he (KG) said 'Danny will take care of it' and then I (Ray) said 'We'll see..'

So that is about as clear as you can get that he would have come back if he had gotten what he wanted...it wasn't that he really wanted to go to Miami. He specifically wanted either terms or money or both that the Cs would not meet.

If it was this 3yrs for 27mil, then his decision to go to Miami for 3yrs and 9mil is even more aggravating.

I still just can't believe he left for Miami. His life is here. He should have stayed.

[crimson_stallion]

Neither is Jeff Green though. And Jeff Green has never once in his career been worth that much.

Whereas Ray has been, just in terms of putting the ball in the basket, passing it, not turning it over. Yet people around here are acting as if Ray was trying to steal from the Celtics.

Jeff Green is 26 years old, Ray Allen is 36 years old.

Going into the last year of their contacts Jeff Green will be 28, will be in his prime, and will still be playing at a high level for years to come.  Even if he doesn't fit the team by that time, he will still be young, athletic and versatile so he will always have solid trade value. 

Ray will be 38, and will be about as effective as Mike Bibby was in Miami - good enough for about 10 minutes a game and capable of hitting the occasional big shot, but otherwise a major liability.  Hell he might even be retired, leaving boston with a $9 million cap commitment to a guy who's not even playing.  Plus Ray requested a no trade clause, so if he IS useless buy this point, Boston can't even get anyone back for him.

Now this is all based purely on your insistence that Ray is a more productive player - lets take a look at that theory.

----------------------------------
Stat | Allen | Green
----------------------------------
OREB% | 1.1% | 3.7%
DREB% | 9.3% | 13.8%
REB% | 5.4% | 8.9%
AST% | 11.6% | 7.5%
AST Ratio | 15.2 | 9.5
TO Ratio | 9.49 | 8.73
Restrict area | 63% | 66%
In the Paint | 38% | 34%
Mid Range | 39% | 40%
Corner 3 | 48% | 44%
Above Break 3 | 43% | 25%

So looking at the stats above, how is it that Ray is worth 9M right now, but Green is not?  The only statistic that stands out in Ray's favour shooting wise is above-break three.  Everywhere else they pretty much average out.

Other then shooting Ray Allen gives 1.6x more assists wise, while Green gives 1.6x more rebounds - again that about evens out...especially on the offensive rebounds, where Green is nearly 3.4x more productive then Ray.  So based on statistics alone, the two are pretty even.   

Green did all of this in only 22 minutes or so off the bench for a Boston team he'd only played half a season with, while playing with a (as yet undetected) heart condition.  Ray put up those numbers playing in a system he's been in for the past 5 years, with players he's known for what seems like forever, and in an offensive scheme that (through all the fancy screens) was largely designed with his offensive game in mind.

You can add on top of this the fact that Green's defense is also superior beyond compare to Allen's at this point in time.

Oh, and Green also has the flexibility to play two positions (SF or PF) - sure he may be more efficient at SF, but against second-tier PF's he is more then capable.  This gives makes him added insurance because he can fill in both roles if somebody gets hurt or in foul trouble.   Ray is a pure SG because he lacks the quickness and handles to play PG or the size/strength to play SF.

Then on top of ALL of that you have the intangibles - Ray was obviously a locker room problem who didn't get along with Rondo, and had a major issue with coming off the bench as well as being unappy sacrificing his shots.  All signs so far suggest that Green gets along with everyone, is happy to come off the bench, and has no care whatsoever about how big a part of the offense he is.

So tell me again, how is Ray Allen for 9 million over 3 years with a no trade MORE appealing than Jeff Green over 3 years for similar money and without a no trade clause?

Especially when you consider that we also have Terry (and possibly Mayo / Lee) as insurance in case he doesn't pan out - every one of those three guys is pretty much as productive overall as Ray Allen.