Author Topic: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)  (Read 94037 times)

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Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #315 on: July 07, 2012, 02:53:45 AM »

Offline Kuberski1

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Hurt....shocked... :(

I'm sure Ray has good reason, from his and his family's points of view....but to go to Miami of all place?  Could you see KG going there?  I'm grateful for all that Ray gave the team, but I just can't help but feel that his legacy with the Cs is severely tarnished....

Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #316 on: July 07, 2012, 03:32:46 AM »

Offline jarufu

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This is bullEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.. I'm not happy  >:(
Stay classy, San Diego. Hello, Baxter? Baxter, is that you? Bark twice if you're in Milwaukee. Is this Wilt Chamberlain? Have the decency to say something.

Re: RAY IS GONE
« Reply #317 on: July 07, 2012, 04:02:05 AM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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Ray did the right thing, he needed a shot to win the title, I'll cheer him despite him being hated in Boston now. This is the right move...can we get out of our commitments for KG and Terry? We need to shoot for the #1 pick and rebuild not try and deal with the Heat...the era is OVER!!! The sooner everyone acknowledges it the better this franchise will be...

BLOW IT UP!

I know I'm as green as it gets, but how the Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. does this guy get 7 tommy points? I eat, breathe and p--- Tommy. I'd let him sleep with my widowed, 62 yr old mother, if the opportunity presented itself. And I want Ray dead. And the Cs to win the 'chip this year under any circumstances possible. I hope Ray's kid eats wayyyy more sugar than he should. Goodnight.
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Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #318 on: July 07, 2012, 04:49:56 AM »

Offline dmopower

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Thanks for the memories Ray. Good luck in your quest, as long as it doesn't interfere with our quest.
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Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #319 on: July 07, 2012, 05:29:12 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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As much as I love (and respect) what Ray has done here over the last 5 years, I have to agree that this really is a bit of ****e move. 

Also the more I think about it, the more I think we may be better off. 

Why?

1. Deal
First of all, Allen asking for 9M/Year is ludicrous.  He clearly is not worth anywhere near that money at his age, at this point in his career, and coming off an injury. 

Unless you are a talented big man, to get that type of money you need to be a versatile enough to play multiple positions and / or produce in multiple areas.  As a pure shooting guard who only real skill is shooting, Ray offers neither of the above. 

Either he dramatically overestimates his own balue, or he he threw this figure out intentionally knowing that Boston would never match it, purely to waste their time. Then he threw in the no-trade demand just to add insult to injury. 

The latter was all but confirmed by the fact that he signed for Miami for 1/3 of that yearly salary...without a trade clause.
 

2. Fit in Boston
I was daydreaming the other day about the possibility of a Terry/Allen/Green second unit, with each of those guys having the potential to score 20 points on any given night.  For a Boston team that has never had depth, the possibility was very intriguing!

Then I started to think about it...who on that second unit will actually play defense? 

Terry is hardly a lock down defender, and he's undersized at 6'2".   At this point in his career, Allen is really a bit of a defensive liability.  Green will have his hands full with bigger SF's like Carmello and Lebron. 

Larger and more dominant backcourt scorers guys like Wade, Kobe, Mayo and J Johnson will score at will if they come up against this lineup.   

The Celtics are actually probably more ballanced with Terry/Pietrus/Green out there on the perimeter. Each of those three guys can knock down the outside shot (making up somewhat for the loss of Allen), but Pietrus has the strength and agility to defend any SG/SF in the league...and that allows Terry and Green to focus primarilly on offense.

This also ensures that Terry and Green will get enough minutes (probably close to 30 a game) to be really effective.  Bringing Allen back would have probably forced them to play him some time either at PG or at SF just to get him the minutes he needs to be content, and that would have taken minutes away from Terry and Green.  Pietrus will be much more willing to accept reduced minutes for the better of the team.

Also we don't want a Celtic who doesn't WANT to be a Celtic.  Terry, Pietrus and Green are all very passionate about playing on Boston, and a passionate employee almost always amounts to a more productive employee.


3. Impact in Miami
I actually think Ray Allen's potential impact in Miami is grossly overrated.

Yes Ray Allen is one year older, and yes he's just coming off a surgery to remove bone spurs in his ankle...but that's not my reason.  People seem to forget that the main reason Ray has managed to maintain his efficiency is because Boston surrounds him with the perfect system. 

Having multiple staggered screens (starting with one of the best screen setters in KG) gets Ray the space he needs, and then he has arguably the best passer in the league (Rondo) delivering him the ball right where/when he wants it.  So many of those shots he gets would have been a non-attempt it the pass was a split second later or off position.

Despite the above, Ray was a step slower and has struggled to get enough separation to get shots off lately.  Maybe that's due to the bone spurs, but maybe he's just not as quick anymore.  Now he's in Miami and doesn't have those resources, and it's most likely that his shooting efficiency will drop significantly.


4. Value
To me, the big way to decide a player's value is how replacable they are.  This usually is determined by a combination of their versatility, versus how much they demand from the team.

Example 1 - Marquis Daniels:
* Can play and defend three positions (PG, SG and SF)

* Has a varied skillset (good passer, solid rebounder, rarely turns the ball over, can score when asked)

* Has good intangbles (experience, hustle, toughness, professionalism, loyalty and gets along with other players)

* Demands only a 'veteran min' contract and a roster spot.  He considers any playing time a bonus. 

That to me that is a very high value player - hard to replace because its very hard to find a guy who will offer that skill set in return for similar or fewer demands.   

Example 2 - Ray Allen:
* Can play one position (SG)

* Has one key skill (Shooting)

* Has some intangibles (experience, professionalism, clutch scoring)

* Demands a large salary an a starting role or starter-like minutes 

This makes Ray Allen (in my eyes) a very low value player - very easilly replaced because there are many players out there who could offer this skill set in return for similar or fewer demands.

So honestly, the more I think about it the more I like this..as long as Pietrus comes back.  They dont need  him to be a scorng machine, they just ned consitently good defense and the ability to hit the odd big shot (he can do both).

Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #320 on: July 07, 2012, 06:12:16 AM »

Offline Mr Green

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Wow, I'm disappointed. My gut feeling was that Ray was going to stay with the Cs. But, ultimately it's his decision, so if he wants to look back on his career as a journeyman mercenary who has played with four different teams then so be it. Time for us to move forward.

On the bright side, at least Danny and Doc can now solidify any other options they may have lined up before 11 July.

Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #321 on: July 07, 2012, 07:02:30 AM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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I guess out of the three, Ray was least willing to set aside his ego and let things go.
You can't be a "consummate professional" then get p---ed you were traded.

You can't get mad at Rondo for getting p---ed at you when you don't run the play he calls.

Ray really looks like a selfish prick if you ask me. Thanks for 08 but now I'm perfectly ok if the dude just falls into a well.

Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #322 on: July 07, 2012, 07:23:52 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I guess out of the three, Ray was least willing to set aside his ego and let things go.
You can't be a "consummate professional" then get p---ed you were traded.

You can't get mad at Rondo for getting p---ed at you when you don't run the play he calls.

Ray really looks like a selfish prick if you ask me. Thanks for 08 but now I'm perfectly ok if the dude just falls into a well.


Couldn't have said it any better. This is personal any way you look at it.
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Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #323 on: July 07, 2012, 07:41:56 AM »

Offline anthony83

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I feel very bad that Ray is gone to Miami, as all fans of Boston, I hate to Miami, I hate Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Chalmers, Battier, everyone. But part of the blame for what has happened has it Danny Ainge, he never appreciated Ray Allen, rumors, rumors over the deadline and Ainge never denied anything, Allen was a free agent and he has done what he wanted, go to a championship team.

Also have influenced Rondo, Rondo has a bad character and something happened between him and Ray I think.

What surprises me is that my lot KG or Pierce have talked about Ray.

What is clear is that we lose the best shooter in the league, and as always, the value is when you lose, and we lost Ray Allen (again, blame Ainge).

Life goes on, not now regret it, we must go and sign other players. I will continue to hate Miami.

 Thanks Ray for the goods moments, have been many, now could not see a match with the Big Three, I feel very sad. I have a shirt from the Big Three, I'll put it anymore.

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Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #324 on: July 07, 2012, 07:52:34 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I guess he is a class act with a boatful of pride.   

Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #325 on: July 07, 2012, 07:59:19 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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He was never coming back to Boston. The trade talk...the benching....the fact his ego couldn't handle Rondo....the rondo factor on where the offense was moving to...

The wojo column today says it all. In the end ray looks like a petty diva behind the scenes. I think Boston is a better team today with him gone.

Like ray....but he was somewhat of an albatross on the celtics

Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #326 on: July 07, 2012, 08:34:12 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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3 years 27 mill!?!?!?!?!?!

Has Allen been hanging out with Charlie Sheen?

Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #327 on: July 07, 2012, 09:01:37 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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What is clear is that we lose the best shooter in the league, and as always, the value is when you lose, and we lost Ray Allen (again, blame Ainge).

I wouldn't be too quick to throw the 'best shooter in the league' title on Ray.  Best three point shooter, quite likely (assuming he recovers from the bone spurs) but looking up his stats today I was suprised to find that his accuracy from midrange actually ranks not so great on the Celtics roster:

1. Chris Wilcox - 55%
2. Brandon Bass - 49%
3. Greg Stiemsma - 48%
4. Kevin Garnett - 46%
5. Mickael Pietrus - 44%
6. Avery Bradley - 43%
7. Rajon Rondo - 39%
8. Ray Allen - 38%

As for our other 'new' acquisitions, Jeff Green shot 40% from midrange for Boston in 2010-2011 (his last active year) and Jason Terry shot 43% from midrange.

That means Allen could be ranked as low as 10th on the team in midrange shooting efficiency with our new roster.

Obviously he was dominant from three, shooting 48% from the corner and 43% above the break. 

Terry comparatively shot 44% and 36% respectively - not on par with Ray, but still very good.

Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #328 on: July 07, 2012, 09:05:59 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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27 Million is too much.   Good luck getting  rid of the bandwagon title rider label, Ray.

Re: Ray is gone (wanted 3 year 27 million)
« Reply #329 on: July 07, 2012, 09:41:27 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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I agree with a previous poster, Ray's impact on the heat will be minimal. He is basically taking over the role of Mike Miller. Miller did extremely well hitting open threes in the playoffs, how much better can Ray actually do in that role? As we know, as soon as Ray starts to dribble too much, bad things happen, so if he tries to break out of the jump shooter role, he will hurt the heat.