Steve Nash to Lakers (sources reporting)

[BballTim]

bummer.  I really like Steve Nash.  Ouch.  That offense, on paper... is ridiculous.  One of the best scorers in the league... one of the best point guards in this league (still)... two of the top 5 big men in the game.  Ouch.

I would have totally preferred seeing him go back to Dallas, go to Toronto, go to the Knicks... whatever.  

His addition to the Lakers could make them a serious threat to win a title (and tie our record).  Not happy about it.  I felt with better coaching they could have been a threat to win it this year even without Nash.  Having two 7 foot stars is a huge advantage.  Mike Brown is a hack.

  If LA had two of the top 5 big men in the league they wouldn't have been dispatched early on in the playoffs the last two years.

Their problem is that they do have two of the top 5 centers in the league. (Howard, Bynum, Gasol, KG are all top 5 Cs not sure who I'd put 5th maybe TD)

When you move Gasol to a stretch 4 who doesn't get to playin the post (Kobe/Bynum both play in the post a ton) his value drops dramatically.

  Chandler might be 5th. At this point I'd like to see Gasol's defense as center before I put him there, but good point nonetheless.

[snively]

We just have to pray Dwight Howard doesn't end up a Laker.  Ugh. 

[MBunge]

I'd much rather have Bynum than Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, and two #1's.  The second best center in basketball, or 5 players who are likely to combine for 0 all-star appearances for their career?  I'll take the second best center.  

You are overrating the importance of depth and a bench in the playoffs.  Know how many players scored for the Celtics in Game 7? Six players.  Know how many players scored for the HEAT in Game 7? Six players.

No one is saying Nash is going to play more minutes than Rondo.  That is absurd.  There is a big difference between barely playing half the game and playing more than Rondo.  By your standards, KG and Pierce barely play half the game.

Once again, all of your points are a severe stretch.

You'd rather have a known headcase and historical injury risk than 3 guys who combined to average 55.6 pts and 18.2 rebounds last season, in addition to two first round picks?  I'm sure a lot of GMs think like you and that's the reason so many teams NEVER win championships.

And on the subject of draft picks, LA traded their first rounder this year for Ramon Sessions.  Since he's almost certainly not back next season, that means they traded it for nothing since they could have lost in the playoffs just as easily with DFish.

Who did Cleveland get with LA's draft pick?  Jared Cunningham.  Who were some of the players selected after that pick?  Tony Wroten, Perry Jones and Marquis Teague.  Some people wanted Ainge to take Jones instead of Sullinger or Melo.  The Lakers gave away the chance to get Jones or Sullinger or Melo in exchange for a total of 35 games of Ramon Sessions.

As for minutes, KG averaged 36.9 minutes in the playoffs and PP averaged 38.9.  Again using the Rondo regular season comparison, how many times did Pierce play more than 36.9 minutes in a game?  19.  KG did it 8 times.  Nash?  4 times.  Again, how many minutes is Nash going to play in the playoffs next year for LA and how many minutes will they have to go with Steve Blake?

Mike

[Who]

bummer.  I really like Steve Nash.  Ouch.  That offense, on paper... is ridiculous.  One of the best scorers in the league... one of the best point guards in this league (still)... two of the top 5 big men in the game.  Ouch.

I would have totally preferred seeing him go back to Dallas, go to Toronto, go to the Knicks... whatever. 

His addition to the Lakers could make them a serious threat to win a title (and tie our record).  Not happy about it.  I felt with better coaching they could have been a threat to win it this year even without Nash.  Having two 7 foot stars is a huge advantage.  Mike Brown is a hack.

  If LA had two of the top 5 big men in the league they wouldn't have been dispatched early on in the playoffs the last two years.

Their problem is that they do have two of the top 5 centers in the league. (Howard, Bynum, Gasol, KG are all top 5 Cs not sure who I'd put 5th maybe TD)

When you move Gasol to a stretch 4 who doesn't get to playin the post (Kobe/Bynum both play in the post a ton) his value drops dramatically.

  Chandler might be 5th. At this point I'd like to see Gasol's defense as center before I put him there, but good point nonetheless.

I would go with Chris Bosh as the other name on that top five centers list.

[Finkelskyhook]

We just have to pray Dwight Howard doesn't end up a Laker.  Ugh. 

It's really the only way this makes the Lakers a better team.  

Bynum's not bad....But they'll need somebody Howard / Mutomboesque to defend the paint as los Nash's man waltzes by him every time down the floor.

As much as los Nash makes them better offensively....He'll make them a complete sieve defensively.  

Mike Brown is toast....Because without them getting Howard, this is a train wreck.

[celtsfan84]

I'd much rather have Bynum than Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, and two #1's.  The second best center in basketball, or 5 players who are likely to combine for 0 all-star appearances for their career?  I'll take the second best center.  

You are overrating the importance of depth and a bench in the playoffs.  Know how many players scored for the Celtics in Game 7? Six players.  Know how many players scored for the HEAT in Game 7? Six players.

No one is saying Nash is going to play more minutes than Rondo.  That is absurd.  There is a big difference between barely playing half the game and playing more than Rondo.  By your standards, KG and Pierce barely play half the game.

Once again, all of your points are a severe stretch.

You'd rather have a known headcase and historical injury risk than 3 guys who combined to average 55.6 pts and 18.2 rebounds last season, in addition to two first round picks?  I'm sure a lot of GMs think like you and that's the reason so many teams NEVER win championships.

And on the subject of draft picks, LA traded their first rounder this year for Ramon Sessions.  Since he's almost certainly not back next season, that means they traded it for nothing since they could have lost in the playoffs just as easily with DFish.

Who did Cleveland get with LA's draft pick?  Jared Cunningham.  Who were some of the players selected after that pick?  Tony Wroten, Perry Jones and Marquis Teague.  Some people wanted Ainge to take Jones instead of Sullinger or Melo.  The Lakers gave away the chance to get Jones or Sullinger or Melo in exchange for a total of 35 games of Ramon Sessions.

As for minutes, KG averaged 36.9 minutes in the playoffs and PP averaged 38.9.  Again using the Rondo regular season comparison, how many times did Pierce play more than 36.9 minutes in a game?  19.  KG did in 8 times.  Nash?  4 times.  Again, how many minutes is Nash going to play in the playoffs next year for LA and how many minutes will they have to go with Steve Blake?

Mike

Yup, clogging your cap space with a player like Brook Lopez, who averaged under 4 rebounds last year is a great way to win a championship!  And two late first round picks!  And Marshon Brooks, a gunner who shoots around 40%.  Taking the center who averages 4 rebounds over the center who averages 12.  Pure genius! To use your exact quote, I'm sure a lot of GMs think like you and that's the reason so many teams NEVER win championships.

You do realize that if they acquire Lopez and Humphries they have to overpay both of them, right?  After all, Lopez and Humphries have to agree to go there in a sign and trade, so they have to be the highest bidder.  Otherwise, Lopez and Humphries will sign elsewhere.  If overpaying role players is your championship formula, you need to rethink it.  Teams that overpay role players definitely win more championships than teams that have elite big men.  

Nash's most recent playoff saw him play 37 minutes.  He played 32 last year in the regular season.  There is no reason to believe he can't play in the 35 minute range, which is more than half of the game, by the way.  Half of the game is 24 minutes.

[MBunge]

I'd much rather have Bynum than Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, and two #1's.  The second best center in basketball, or 5 players who are likely to combine for 0 all-star appearances for their career?  I'll take the second best center.  

You are overrating the importance of depth and a bench in the playoffs.  Know how many players scored for the Celtics in Game 7? Six players.  Know how many players scored for the HEAT in Game 7? Six players.

No one is saying Nash is going to play more minutes than Rondo.  That is absurd.  There is a big difference between barely playing half the game and playing more than Rondo.  By your standards, KG and Pierce barely play half the game.

Once again, all of your points are a severe stretch.

You'd rather have a known headcase and historical injury risk than 3 guys who combined to average 55.6 pts and 18.2 rebounds last season, in addition to two first round picks?  I'm sure a lot of GMs think like you and that's the reason so many teams NEVER win championships.

And on the subject of draft picks, LA traded their first rounder this year for Ramon Sessions.  Since he's almost certainly not back next season, that means they traded it for nothing since they could have lost in the playoffs just as easily with DFish.

Who did Cleveland get with LA's draft pick?  Jared Cunningham.  Who were some of the players selected after that pick?  Tony Wroten, Perry Jones and Marquis Teague.  Some people wanted Ainge to take Jones instead of Sullinger or Melo.  The Lakers gave away the chance to get Jones or Sullinger or Melo in exchange for a total of 35 games of Ramon Sessions.

As for minutes, KG averaged 36.9 minutes in the playoffs and PP averaged 38.9.  Again using the Rondo regular season comparison, how many times did Pierce play more than 36.9 minutes in a game?  19.  KG did in 8 times.  Nash?  4 times.  Again, how many minutes is Nash going to play in the playoffs next year for LA and how many minutes will they have to go with Steve Blake?

Mike

Yup, clogging your cap space with a player like Brook Lopez, who averaged under 4 rebounds last year is a great way to win a championship!  And two late first round picks!  And Marshon Brooks, a gunner who shoots around 40%.  To use your exact quote, I'm sure a lot of GMs think like you and that's the reason so many teams NEVER win championships.

You do realize that if they acquire Lopez and Humphries they have to overpay both of them, right?  After all, Lopez and Humphries have to agree to go there in a sign and trade, so they have to be the highest bidder.  Otherwise, Lopez and Humphries will sign elsewhere.  If overpaying role players is your championship formula, you need to rethink it.  Teams that overpay role players definitely win more championships than teams that have elite big men. 

Nash's most recent playoff saw him play 37 minutes.  He played 32 last year in the regular season.  There is no reason to believe he can't play in the 35 minute range, which is more than half of the game, by the way.  Half of the game is 24 minutes.

Brook Lopez' career averages are 17.4 pts and 7.5 rebs. Bynum averaged 18.7 pts and 11.8 rebs last season.  Kris Humphries averaged 13.8 pts and 11 rebs this past season, 10 pts and 10.4 rebs the season before that.  Yes, Bynum is the best individual player but you can already argue that Lopez and Humphries combined are better than he is alone.  Throw in Brooks, who more than a few on this board were upset that Ainge didn't take in the draft, and two future picks and the Nets package only gets stronger.  And that's without factoring in Bynum being a headcase with a history of injury problems.

And Nash's last playoff run was two years ago.  He averaged 33.7 minutes.  Do you think he can play even that much three years later?

Mike

[OsirusCeltics]

Great trade! Another Laker player who can't defend guard penetration

[celtsfan84]

I'd much rather have Bynum than Lopez, Humphries, Brooks, and two #1's.  The second best center in basketball, or 5 players who are likely to combine for 0 all-star appearances for their career?  I'll take the second best center.  

You are overrating the importance of depth and a bench in the playoffs.  Know how many players scored for the Celtics in Game 7? Six players.  Know how many players scored for the HEAT in Game 7? Six players.

No one is saying Nash is going to play more minutes than Rondo.  That is absurd.  There is a big difference between barely playing half the game and playing more than Rondo.  By your standards, KG and Pierce barely play half the game.

Once again, all of your points are a severe stretch.

You'd rather have a known headcase and historical injury risk than 3 guys who combined to average 55.6 pts and 18.2 rebounds last season, in addition to two first round picks?  I'm sure a lot of GMs think like you and that's the reason so many teams NEVER win championships.

And on the subject of draft picks, LA traded their first rounder this year for Ramon Sessions.  Since he's almost certainly not back next season, that means they traded it for nothing since they could have lost in the playoffs just as easily with DFish.

Who did Cleveland get with LA's draft pick?  Jared Cunningham.  Who were some of the players selected after that pick?  Tony Wroten, Perry Jones and Marquis Teague.  Some people wanted Ainge to take Jones instead of Sullinger or Melo.  The Lakers gave away the chance to get Jones or Sullinger or Melo in exchange for a total of 35 games of Ramon Sessions.

As for minutes, KG averaged 36.9 minutes in the playoffs and PP averaged 38.9.  Again using the Rondo regular season comparison, how many times did Pierce play more than 36.9 minutes in a game?  19.  KG did in 8 times.  Nash?  4 times.  Again, how many minutes is Nash going to play in the playoffs next year for LA and how many minutes will they have to go with Steve Blake?

Mike

Yup, clogging your cap space with a player like Brook Lopez, who averaged under 4 rebounds last year is a great way to win a championship!  And two late first round picks!  And Marshon Brooks, a gunner who shoots around 40%.  To use your exact quote, I'm sure a lot of GMs think like you and that's the reason so many teams NEVER win championships.

You do realize that if they acquire Lopez and Humphries they have to overpay both of them, right?  After all, Lopez and Humphries have to agree to go there in a sign and trade, so they have to be the highest bidder.  Otherwise, Lopez and Humphries will sign elsewhere.  If overpaying role players is your championship formula, you need to rethink it.  Teams that overpay role players definitely win more championships than teams that have elite big men.  

Nash's most recent playoff saw him play 37 minutes.  He played 32 last year in the regular season.  There is no reason to believe he can't play in the 35 minute range, which is more than half of the game, by the way.  Half of the game is 24 minutes.

Brook Lopez' career averages are 17.4 pts and 7.5 rebs. Bynum averaged 18.7 pts and 11.8 rebs last season.  Kris Humphries averaged 13.8 pts and 11 rebs this past season, 10 pts and 10.4 rebs the season before that.  Yes, Bynum is the best individual player but you can already argue that Lopez and Humphries combined are better than he is alone.  Throw in Brooks, who more than a few on this board were upset that Ainge didn't take in the draft, and two future picks and the Nets package only gets stronger.  And that's without factoring in Bynum being a headcase with a history of injury problems.

And Nash's last playoff run was two years ago.  He averaged 33.7 minutes.  Do you think he can play even that much three years later?

Mike

You are ignoring the fact many things in that post.  

You are ignoring that Lopez and Humphries are both free agents.  In other words, you will have to be the highest bidder (overpay them).  Otherwise they will sign with other teams as a free agent.

You are ignoring that they will take up 2 spots in a starting lineup.  The Magic can put another player in at PF, so totaling production doesn't make sense.

You are ignoring that these guys put up big numbers on a bad team.  Lopez, Humphries, and Brooks put you so close to a championship, that adding them to Deron Williams (one of the best PGs in the league) wins you about 20 games.  Why is this?  Will the Magic have a better PG than Deron Williams?

Isn't acquiring the core of a 20 win team without its best player a recipe for 20 wins?

Why not trade for Bynum and sign players equal to Humphries, Brooks, and the two #1s in free agency?  Which should be very easy to do.  You can cherry pick good 1st Round picks all you want (or guys that you think are good 1st round picks) but there are bad ones too.

Believe it or not, some of those guys you named will end up being unproductive.  It happens every year at the bottom of the 1st Round.

[celtsfan84]

Great trade! Another Laker player who can't defend guard penetration

Just like Derek Fisher . . . all the way to 5 NBA titles.

[OsirusCeltics]

Great trade! Another Laker player who can't defend guard penetration

Just like Derek Fisher . . . all the way to 5 NBA titles.

Don't diss Fisher like that, he's a better defender

Steve Nash can't guard a statue

[celtsfan84]

Great trade! Another Laker player who can't defend guard penetration

Just like Derek Fisher . . . all the way to 5 NBA titles.

Don't diss Fisher like that, he's a better defender

Steve Nash can't guard a statue

Derek Fisher couldn't stay in front of Tony Parker at all.  Look at Parker's numbers against the Lakers.  And they still won 5 titles.

Point guard defense matters less than you would think.  It all ends up being team defense and shot blockers to cover ground in the end.

I've seen DJ Augustin blow by Rondo before and Rondo is the best defensive PG in the league.  I seem to remember a series where Rondo couldn't defend Derrick Rose at all.  He just attacked Rose on the other end.  Nash can't defend Parker.  But Parker can't defend Nash.

The PER of point guards playing against Steve Nash is 13.6 this year, btw, via 82games.com.  Meaning, you can survive it.

[Finkelskyhook]

Great trade! Another Laker player who can't defend guard penetration

Just like Derek Fisher . . . all the way to 5 NBA titles.

The equally classless Fisher at least pretended to defend.  los Nash doesn't bother to pretend.

Nash's most recent playoff saw him play 37 minutes.

Whenever that was.....

It's pretty easy to play 37 minutes when you only play one end of the court.

[celtsfan84]

Great trade! Another Laker player who can't defend guard penetration

Just like Derek Fisher . . . all the way to 5 NBA titles.

The equally classless Fisher at least pretended to defend.  los Nash doesn't bother to pretend.

Nash's most recent playoff saw him play 37 minutes.

Whenever that was.....

It's pretty easy to play 37 minutes when you only play one end of the court.

And I assume that most point guards would have been title contenders with Channing Frye, Jared Dudley, and Marcin Gortat in their starting lineup?  Not exactly Durant, Westbrook, and Harden.  Or Lebron, Wade, and Bosh.

Since when is Nash considered classless?

I don't remember when this forum turned to pointless cheap shots.

[Finkelskyhook]

Wasn't a cheapshot at you, 84.

I find los Nash and Fisher two of the most phony, flopping, classles individuals in the sport.