Why Are We Assuming that Ray Allen Won't Start?

[Lightskinsmurf]

Id rather ray walk than to have him starting over bradley. And then we can sign jason terry. Bench could be Terry green MP sullinger for the first 4 guys to come off anyways. Of course steamer possibly bass if he stays? I digress, i don't want ray starting for us NO WAY.

[jv2764]

Allen comes off the bench.  End of story.  If he balks at that you say thanks and move on. 

[jv2764]

What was the entire trade last year when we traded the rights for Marshon Brooks? 

[tonyto3690]

1.  The team is infinitely better defensively with Bradley starting. 

2.  The team is marginally better offensively with Bradley starting.

3.  Ray bogs down the offense and can't consistently get open and instead of going to the post to KG or immediately running a pick and pop for PP/KG, you get 20 seconds of Ray running around and everyone watching and then 4 seconds of Rondo heaving a desperation shot.  He can do that with the second unit when no else can really shoot, but he shouldn't be taking good looks away from KG Pierce and Rondo

4.  Bradley is younger and will only improve with playing time while Ray will get worse.

5.  There is really no real reason Ray should be starting beyond just injuries sidelining Bradley.

[mctyson]

What was the entire trade last year when we traded the rights for Marshon Brooks? 

We got Brooklyn's 2014 2nd round pick along with the rights to JJJ.

[Jon]

First and foremost, if this is a question of Ray staying and starting or Ray leaving, this discussion should end now.  We're talking about the first 5-6 minutes of the game.  After that, Doc can adjust his rotations however he sees fit.  

Second of all, I think the perceived change that Bradley brought to the starting unit was only partly his doing.

Don't get me wrong.  I like Bradley and I like him a lot.  I think he has star potential.  

However, at the time he was breaking into the starting unit, other things began to happen that had nothing to do with Bradley.  

First and foremost, KG started to turn it around and have his own personal renaissance.  Second, PP finally got his butt into shape after the lockout.  

On top of this, when Ray came back, he was Ray with bone spurs, making Bradley look even better.  That should change next year.  

Might the Celtics be better with Bradley starting?  Sure.  But I don't think this nearly as dramatic of an issue as people are making it out to be.  I also think Bradley and Green could make an incredible 6th man duo off the bench, coming in midway through the 1st and bringing a huge boost of injury to run with Rondo the rest of the quarter.  

And after that, who started and who came off the bench is really inconsequential.  

[Eja117]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPW7hFiucE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ1xz-7OVh4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsk_Uc6abI&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHb51gmsDyI&feature=related

same as before...different angles and commentators

[Eja117]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9PVrEult88&feature=related

I bet you all remember where you were when that happened

[Jon]

But again, this isn't a debate in my mind about who is better.  I'd love to see Bradley play more minutes than Ray. 

My only point is this: if it takes giving Ray the starting job over Bradley to get him to come back, DO IT. 

It's really not that big of a deal who plays the first 6 minutes of the game and certainly not a big enough of a deal to lose Ray Allen over. 

[snively]

Another argument for Bradley's inclusion in the starting line-up is how low maintenance he is offensively.  He doesn't require any plays run for him, but he was still putting up efficient double digits off of corner 3s, transition hustle, off-ball cuts and an occasional mid-range J. 

While Ray can sometimes be a fantastic low-maintenance player, he comes with some offensive baggage.  Mainly, he needs to be involved heavily in the offense (i.e. more than Bradley) to get the most out him.  And that means a lot of elaborate screening/decoy plays to free him up in his best spots.  These plays have the unfortunate side effect of marginalizing our three most dynamic offensive players (Rondo, Pierce, KG) to some degree - Rondo as a stationary passer at the 3-point line, KG as a screener and Pierce as a decoy or screener.

Putting Ray on the bench focused the offense more on its dynamic elements.

[CelticG1]

Love how people just pencil in bradley cause he played good for 2 months and now he is coming off of double shoulder surgery.

Why don't we let 1 of them win the job? Bradley in no way deserves to be the automatic starter. If Ray is hungry and shows that he is a better 2 than Bradley than I would glade give himthe starting job.

It will be interesting to see who's better when healthy (if we are lucky enough to see that)

[CelticsFanNC]

First and foremost, if this is a question of Ray staying and starting or Ray leaving, this discussion should end now.  We're talking about the first 5-6 minutes of the game.  After that, Doc can adjust his rotations however he sees fit.  

Second of all, I think the perceived change that Bradley brought to the starting unit was only partly his doing.

Don't get me wrong.  I like Bradley and I like him a lot.  I think he has star potential.  

However, at the time he was breaking into the starting unit, other things began to happen that had nothing to do with Bradley.  

First and foremost, KG started to turn it around and have his own personal renaissance.  Second, PP finally got his butt into shape after the lockout.  

On top of this, when Ray came back, he was Ray with bone spurs, making Bradley look even better.  That should change next year.  

Might the Celtics be better with Bradley starting?  Sure.  But I don't think this nearly as dramatic of an issue as people are making it out to be.  I also think Bradley and Green could make an incredible 6th man duo off the bench, coming in midway through the 1st and bringing a huge boost of injury to run with Rondo the rest of the quarter.  

And after that, who started and who came off the bench is really inconsequential.  

  I kind of disagree for one reason.

 With Ray Allen starting we rarely get easy baskets.  When Bradley starts we do.

  With the advancing age of the three guys this offense was built around and their inability to carry us offensively night in and night out like they could a few years ago, we need those easy baskets, every one of them.  We need to get into the open court and/or into early offense.  We need to get to lose balls.  We do all of those things better as a starting unit with Bradley in place of Ray IMO.

[jv2764]

If both are healthy its a no-brainer, AB has to start.  This team eventaully has to incoorporate youth and athleticism in its starting lineup.

[RockinRyA]

Love how people just pencil in bradley cause he played good for 2 months and now he is coming off of double shoulder surgery.

Why don't we let 1 of them win the job? Bradley in no way deserves to be the automatic starter. If Ray is hungry and shows that he is a better 2 than Bradley than I would glade give himthe starting job.

It will be interesting to see who's better when healthy (if we are lucky enough to see that)

its not about who is the better 2, but who fits that role best. we play better when bradley is starting, weak side cuts, ball pressure, running the break- dimensions lacking in our usual starting 5

[Jon]

First and foremost, if this is a question of Ray staying and starting or Ray leaving, this discussion should end now.  We're talking about the first 5-6 minutes of the game.  After that, Doc can adjust his rotations however he sees fit.  

Second of all, I think the perceived change that Bradley brought to the starting unit was only partly his doing.

Don't get me wrong.  I like Bradley and I like him a lot.  I think he has star potential.  

However, at the time he was breaking into the starting unit, other things began to happen that had nothing to do with Bradley.  

First and foremost, KG started to turn it around and have his own personal renaissance.  Second, PP finally got his butt into shape after the lockout.  

On top of this, when Ray came back, he was Ray with bone spurs, making Bradley look even better.  That should change next year.  

Might the Celtics be better with Bradley starting?  Sure.  But I don't think this nearly as dramatic of an issue as people are making it out to be.  I also think Bradley and Green could make an incredible 6th man duo off the bench, coming in midway through the 1st and bringing a huge boost of injury to run with Rondo the rest of the quarter.  

And after that, who started and who came off the bench is really inconsequential.  

  I kind of disagree for one reason.

 With Ray Allen starting we rarely get easy baskets.  When Bradley starts we do.

  With the advancing age of the three guys this offense was built around and their inability to carry us offensively night in and night out like they could a few years ago, we need those easy baskets, every one of them.  We need to get into the open court and/or into early offense.  We need to get to lose balls.  We do all of those things better as a starting unit with Bradley in place of Ray IMO.

But you're missing my point.  My point isn't that Ray's a better starter, it's simply that if offering Ray a starting spot gets him back in green, do it.  

The starting 5 really only plays together for the beginning of the game and often the end of the game.  In between there's all sorts of combinations going on that both Ray and Bradley were part of.  

Furthermore, even after Ray lost his starting spot last year, he often finished games instead of Bradley.  So if the starting 5 was so much better with Bradley, why did Doc go with Ray at the end of games?

Again, my point isn't that one is better than another, my point is that who starts and who comes off the bench is largely overrated.  What's important is that Ray comes back.  And if it takes offering him the starting spot to do it, so be it.