Author Topic: A possible Draft Day shocker?  (Read 11390 times)

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Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2012, 02:06:09 PM »

Offline GrandTheftRondo

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what does rajon Rondo have to do to dispell these trade rumors/ideas, win a title single handedly? seriously, it would be a huge mistake trading him for anything less than a Kevin Durant type player. The dude has the heart of a lion/refuse to lose attitude. Guys like him are invaluable and end up winning you titles. Keep Rajon.
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Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2012, 02:33:06 PM »

Offline Aeacus

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Rondo will have these kind of rumors following him until he becomes an MVP or he retires.  There are only a couple of all-stars in the league that don't get talked about in trade rumors.  Usually top 5 talent or seven footers with large contracts. 

The fact that the Celtics have had an impending team rebuild cycle looming for the last 2-3 years have just dragged out the normal whispers into what seems like a never ending cycle.  The fact that we locked Rondo into a very team friendly deal just makes him more desireable to the rest of the league. 

Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2012, 03:09:55 PM »

Offline 33_Larry Legend_33

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A Rondo-to-Portland deal would be pretty close to the equivalent of (in 1991) trading John Bagley from Boston to Phoenix for Kevin Johnson.  I swear every time I watch Felton play he reminds me more and more of John Bagley, both in stature and style of play.  Sorry, you don't trade Rondo...he is the ONLY piece we have moving forward to transition into the post-Paul Pierce era (which is coming quickly).

And if a deal is consummated with the Kings, you MUST get Cousins back in that deal...  Not that I ever would, but you don't hand over a top-3 point guard & "potential" league MVP for Tyreke Evans. 

This is NBA 2K12 kinda stuff...

Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2012, 03:23:00 PM »

Offline Birdman

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i want proven players, not picks. If the C's did that trade with Portland, all 4 picks may be busts. Never know about NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB drafts.
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Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2012, 03:23:04 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Oh look, more trade ideas involving Rondo for the number #5 and Evans. At this point I hope we do trade Rondo just so people can end up seeing how bad of an idea this is down the road.

We could refer to it as the Romney 2012 trade

Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2012, 03:32:16 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  You know you're in trouble when your trade proposal includes a phrase like "if I was the other team, I'd do this deal in a heartbeat".

Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2012, 04:19:56 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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If KG tells Danny I'm retiring , & goodby RAY Allen.  Then pretty much anything can or will happen.  Nobody will be safe save PP. , geeses after all... you can't sell ot trade off your relatives or spouse... ;D

If KG walks ...then I'd say Rondo might be used to help rebuild the team....not saying thats what I want..but stranger things have happened.

I would venture to say DA has a dozen schemes worked out for all kinds of team rebuilding.

I love ROndo as a Celtic...If the right DEAL , comes along for a franschise player and or several top draft pics or a real center (finally) for our team. Puts us way ahead on the rebound/rebuild
I stillthink there is  good chance DA starts from the ground up .

Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2012, 10:43:14 PM »

Offline tyrone biggums

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If KG tells Danny I'm retiring , & goodby RAY Allen.  Then pretty much anything can or will happen.  Nobody will be safe save PP. , geeses after all... you can't sell ot trade off your relatives or spouse... ;D

If KG walks ...then I'd say Rondo might be used to help rebuild the team....not saying thats what I want..but stranger things have happened.

I would venture to say DA has a dozen schemes worked out for all kinds of team rebuilding.

I love ROndo as a Celtic...If the right DEAL , comes along for a franschise player and or several top draft pics or a real center (finally) for our team. Puts us way ahead on the rebound/rebuild
I stillthink there is  good chance DA starts from the ground up .

Yes but the OP's Portland deal is an abortion, and Rondo to the Kings for Evans and the #5 is something that any Kings fan would do in a heartbeat

Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2012, 04:56:46 AM »

Offline Hanson6

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down with that

Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2012, 12:04:17 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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First of all, I didn't say I "would" trade Rondo. I said that "IF" we were trying to move up into the Lottery, Rondo would be the obvious choice of player on our Roster to get us there.

Secondly, I also said "this is a hypothetical" conversation at the end of my post.

Thirdly, I also said it would have to take serious consideration to trade Rondo because of his obvious game changing talent and that I have been one of the biggest Ronda advocates since he arrived in Boston.

Lastly, none of us know exactly what the team dynamics with Rondo are and how that affects the organization's decision making when it comes to Rondo. We do know that he has majorly butted heads, at various times, with Doc, Paul, KG, Bass and certainly with Ray Allen. He's also butted heads with Bass. Ainge has also had to have "several" sit downs with Rondo. Who knows exactly to what extent all the friction rises to but when there is that much smoke , there's bound to be a decent amount of fire.

So it's possible the team might want to cut bait when the field is talent heavy as in this draft.

Again, I'd be very hesitant to trade Rondo under any circumstances, as I said in the original post - it was a hypothetical post.

But rather than saying just saying the original trade proposals are an abortion, offer a different better trade because I guarantee you that trading Rondo is on the table today if the right deal comes along.

As for the trades themselves that I posted. I would give either serious consideration based on two simple conditions -

1. I felt really confident that the two key guys I was getting in return were possible impact players.

2. They were high character kids with a track record of being great team players.

For example, the Portland trade - If I thought that Andre Drummond (6th) and Arnette Moultrie (11th) could, in a matter of 2-3 years, become a dominant one/two punch in the front for me for the next 10-12 years, I have to consider trading Rondo for that. 

* To be clear, please note that I am not saying that "I" believe Drummond and Moultrie are those players. I am saying that if Ainge felt there were two players at the 6th and 11th spots, in any position, who could be potential impact players and he could land two long term cornerstones for one in Rondo, you have to consider it.

And I have no idea who those two players might be - I don't have enough data on them. But I'd be looking at it serioulsy, especially if Rondo is a divisive influence on the team who requires a tone of maintenance.

And no it's not foolish to say Portland would be foolish to decline that deal. The best trades are win / win for both sides. The only question to be answered in that scenario is if Ainge feels the two players he targets with the 6th and 11th are worth more to him, long term, than Rondo.       

I'd prefer to keep Rondo and build around him, I think he's that special. But I don't know what goes on within the team and as I mentioned in the post don't be suprised if Rondo is used to move up.

This is a hypothetical, not a statement of personal preference regarding Rondo.

Some food for thought off a board - a rumor, for what's it's worth...

News:Dwight, JSmith, Draft
 by ddb on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:00 am
One of my associates from within the NBA circles (BBall operations for a team that I won't mention) said with Ray likely leaving Boston and KG still undecided on his future, Ainge is seriously considering doing something BIG (get it...like the commercial).

That BIG move could involve Rondo. Says in order for it to happen there will need to be revolving pieces, therefor it might not get done until after July 1st. He says Kings are likely to move their pick because current players in the draft are refusing to workout for them. They like Lilliard the most but if they can land Rondo they would rather go down that route.

Says Ainge and McHale are plotting hard...Howard, Josh Smith, Tyrek Evans and Pau Gasol are most common names associated with Boston and Houston.
     


Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2012, 12:38:18 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Lastly, none of us know exactly what the team dynamics with Rondo are and how that affects the organization's decision making when it comes to Rondo. We do know that he has majorly butted heads, at various times, with Doc, Paul, KG, Bass and certainly with Ray Allen. He's also butted heads with Bass. Ainge has also had to have "several" sit downs with Rondo. Who knows exactly to what extent all the friction rises to but when there is that much smoke , there's bound to be a decent amount of fire.


As you said; "none of us know exactly what the team dynamics with Rondo are."  Yet, it seems to me that people are willing to assume that he presents some kind of significant disturbance in the locker room. 

On issues like this, I think it's good practice to go with what his coaches and teammates have had to say about him the most recently.  During the 2011-2012 season, I heard nothing but glowing compliments from his teammates and the organization about him as a leader, a warrior, and a teammate.  Also, I think it's important to see how his relationship with his teammates manifests itself on the court.  I think he had a good showing as a leader and a teammate this season.

Has he had growing pains along the way as an extremely confident kid growing up sharing the spotlight with three NBA legends?  Sure, he has. 

Although you didn't mention the term "immaturity" in your post, I'd like to give my thoughts on it.  I always thought that immaturity meant that someone was still growing.  It often seems that people use the term as an innate characteristic when discussing players. 

Most late teens to early twenties people that I know or have been around (myself definitely included when I was that age) still have some maturing to do.  People do mature, though, and I certainly think we've witnessed Rajon Rondo mature as a person and a basketball player over the course of the last 5 or 6 years.  And, I doubt that he's done maturing. 

He has never struck me as the warm and cuddly, super social type.  I don't think we need him to be that.  I think we need him to be a fierce competitor who is intensely driven to be the best basketball player he can be.  I think there's very little question that he fits that bill. 

If you want a team exclusively made up of Mickael Pietrus and Keyon Dooling type "locker room guys," good luck building a championship level team.  Those types of guys are great to have around, but it's my observation that the great, transcendent talents usually come with some kind of baggage from a personality perspective. 

Anyway, the bottom line for me is that Rajon Rondo is one of the most talented, proven basketball players in the world, and you don't trade a guy like that for prospects.
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Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2012, 01:54:44 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Lastly, none of us know exactly what the team dynamics with Rondo are and how that affects the organization's decision making when it comes to Rondo. We do know that he has majorly butted heads, at various times, with Doc, Paul, KG, Bass and certainly with Ray Allen. He's also butted heads with Bass. Ainge has also had to have "several" sit downs with Rondo. Who knows exactly to what extent all the friction rises to but when there is that much smoke , there's bound to be a decent amount of fire.

  Remember that you're talking about issues that have come and gone over a 6 year period, and some of those have clearly been resolved for quite some time. There's also no indication that any of these clashes were severe or even more involved or intense than issues that other players have with players/coaches.

But rather than saying just saying the original trade proposals are an abortion, offer a different better trade because I guarantee you that trading Rondo is on the table today if the right deal comes along.

  That statement is true for all but 2-3 players in the league.

As for the trades themselves that I posted. I would give either serious consideration based on two simple conditions -

1. I felt really confident that the two key guys I was getting in return were possible impact players.

  Possible impact players don't cut it, you need players that are very probable to make a significant impact. If you don't get a player who has an impact close to what Rondo can have or two players that aren't both well above average you lose the trade and set the franchise back.

Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2012, 02:16:01 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Points taken and let me try again to make my position in writing this post more clear.

1. I personally am not advocating trading Rondo.

2. I actually love Rondo, I think he's the best point guard in the league, period.

3. I'm just saying that if "Ainge" wants to move up because "Ainge" think there are two guys who will be impact guys at the 6th and 11th picks, Rondo is the ticket to get him there. Whether it is done or not is based on exactly whether Ainge feels that his two targeted guys are infact impact players. if he doesnt' feel that wya, he won't do the trade, that's obvious.

4. I am not accusing Rondo of being a cancer. Again, I love his feisty nature and wished often times, are other players would be as tough on court as he is. However, if there is some conflict, it woudl make this "possible" scenario more likely.

It really depends if you think there are two guys at the 6th and 11th spots that are worth that risk - it's a hypothetical.

For example, and this is NOT MY WISH, but hypothetically speaking, suppose Ainge felt that Drummond and Rivers were going to be absolute, sure fire studs at point and center within 2-3 years (HIS OPINION), you don't think he'd trade Rondo for that? I would ( IF THAT WAS MY OPINION AND I AM NOT SAYING IT IS, I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION ON THE PLAYERS TO MAKE THE CALL)

But suppose "Ainge" did feel that confident. Here's the "possible" "hypothetical scenario"

If you thought, let’s say, that Drummond and Rivers were two potential all stars within 2-3 years and could be dominant players…? I’d trade Rondo for that – and still keep my 21st and 22nd picks because Rondo is proven, we’re taking a risk based on judgment of the two players we’d pick…

Next year and moving forward:

Free agent center / Steamer / Drummond (6th)
KG / Bass / JJJ
Pierce / Green
Ray / Pietrus
Bradley / Rivers (11th)

21st:    Terrence Jones, Royce White, Moultrie?...
22nd:   Ezeli, Melo, Quincy Miller, Nicolson, etc…

That’s a loaded team to win now and for the future –

Or you could move up using your 21st and 22nd picks to get the 16th or 18th and take another possible Blue chipper down the road in Moultrie or Moe Harkless or whoever you thought. It takes some luck and ability to determine if guys have “it” in the draft, but if you hit all three pieces, let’s say Drummond, Rivers and Harkless,  and JJJ pans out after adding 20 pounds this year and next, you could be looking at being rebuilt.

Drummond / Steamer
JJJ / Free agent
Harkless / Jeff Green
Bradley / second round pick
Rivers / Moore 

AGAIN, I am not saying this is my vision or my picks - it's hypothetical. The point is that IF Ainge felt he could get two future all stars with the 6th and 11th picks and then get another semi blue chip 3rd wheel with the 16th or 18th by moving up using his 21st and 22nd picks, I think he's considering it heavily.
If Rivers, Harkless and Drummond are studs in two years, you’re on your way.

It’s all a crap shoot but so is Rondo or any player,  just saying….
       

Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2012, 02:30:51 PM »

Offline BballTim

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4. I am not accusing Rondo of being a cancer. Again, I love his feisty nature and wished often times, are other players would be as tough on court as he is. However, if there is some conflict, it woudl make this "possible" scenario more likely.

  You're not accusing Rondo of being a cancer, but you're saying that it's very likely that he causes a significant amount of friction on the team. I'm not sure the evidence points to that.

Free agent center / Steamer / Drummond (6th)
KG / Bass / JJJ
Pierce / Green
Ray / Pietrus
Bradley / Rivers (11th)

21st:    Terrence Jones, Royce White, Moultrie?...
22nd:   Ezeli, Melo, Quincy Miller, Nicolson, etc…

That’s a loaded team to win now and for the future –

  I don't think that's really a "win now" team.

AGAIN, I am not saying this is my vision or my picks - it's hypothetical. The point is that IF Ainge felt he could get two future all stars with the 6th and 11th picks and then get another semi blue chip 3rd wheel with the 16th or 18th by moving up using his 21st and 22nd picks, I think he's considering it heavily.
If Rivers, Harkless and Drummond are studs in two years, you’re on your way.
     

  I agree that if Ainge wants to bag two lottery picks, he'll have to trade something to do it. Maybe Rondo, maybe Bradley and the 21/22.

Re: A possible Draft Day shocker?
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2012, 02:34:51 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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Points taken and let me try again to make my position in writing this post more clear.

Free agent center / Steamer / Drummond (6th)
KG / Bass / JJJ
Pierce / Green
Ray / Pietrus
Bradley / Rivers (11th)

21st:    Terrence Jones, Royce White, Moultrie?...
22nd:   Ezeli, Melo, Quincy Miller, Nicolson, etc…


No.

There is no way KG and Ray return if Rondo isn't. Zero chance. The main reason they're still effective is that they have the best (current) passing PG in the game feeding them all day. That team will not win next year, and why on earth would KG and Ray return to a team that's not going for it all?

No.