Author Topic: Can we win by bringing our team back? (Read 4654 times)

Yogi · « **on:** June 18, 2012, 01:07:18 PM »

Rajon Rondo/E'Twaun Moore/(Scott Machado - 51st)
Avery Bradley/Ray Allen/(Jeff Taylor - 22nd)
Paul Pierce/Jeff Green/(Royce White - 21st)
Brandon Bass/JaJuan Johnson/Sean Williams
Kevin Garnett/Greg Stiemsma/Chris Wilcox

1) Can this rotation of 10 players win a championship next year?
2) Would it be possible to sign all these guys?

It's logical to assume E'Twaun Moore, Avery Bradley, Jeff Green, Brandon Bass, JaJuan Johnson and Greg Stiemsma will contribute more than they did last year. It's safe to assume Rondo will continue his stellar and consistent play from last season. It's probable that Ray, KG and Paul will drop in production. Seeing how far we went with so many injuries, I think this team has as good a shot at the title as any team in the league. What do you guys think?

pearljammer10 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2012, 01:27:50 PM »

With that team I dont think we can win, we still have to get through the youth of miami and okc and this team listed just doesnt have it. There are some holes in this team. Dooling > then moore as a back up point guard, Id also like to see Pietrus return, and a back up front court of steamah and jjj would get demolished. Id rather have Wilcox coming off the bench first for bigs.

Jon · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2012, 01:30:38 PM »

Well, they'd still be very good. I don't know if they could contend.

However, it still might be a good idea. Stay competitive, let the Big Three teach the young guys how to play the game right, and then see where we are in 2013. We could have a nice core of young players and a lot of cap room.

KevinConnor · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2012, 01:31:04 PM »

No definitely not!

Fafnir · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2012, 01:31:51 PM »

No, we need better play next to KG both in terms of being able to rest him effectively and support him with better defense/rebounding.

There also is the likelyhood that PP/KG/Allen decline further, we'll need Bradley/Rondo to continue to improve their games along with perhaps another one or two role players off the bench to play at a higher level.

More Banners · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2012, 01:52:01 PM »

I think that they might have to make a choice if guys like Bass and Wilcox end up getting bigger (or longer) offers than they would like to pay.

I suspect KG wants to be paid like an all-star center, albeit at a slight discount in recognition of minutes limits and age risk. I don't see him wanting less than $10M per for 2, perhaps $12. Whatever it takes, perhaps.

Green might take a guaranteed $5M per, with incentives up to $7M if it's long-term. I'd try to give it to him. Whatever it is, I front-load it for the first 2 years anyhow, and perhaps have some non-guaranteed or waive-options in the 3rd and 4th years, but I say lock him in.

And I see enough solid fundamentals in Steimsma to try to lock him up long term in the $3M range as a backup C. He's worth at least that as a 4th big.

Wilcox would take $3M again, Bass perhaps more (too much more?).

So that's our cap space...

Sign Ray for a few million if you want at that point, unless you like Daniels better as 3rd guard (I do) or would even rather give the time to Dooling or a rookie (I would).

And here's where it gets tough: you're now over the cap, and you have a dark-horse shot at another deep run. The rotation spots left available are:

3rd guard
backup PF (behind Wilcox, I presume)

and then some depth spots.

There are also potentially 2 first rounders coming and perhaps a rotation-worthy SG and PF might be available,

and those spots also happen to already be the positions of Moore and JJJ.

They're also the positions of Ray and Bass.

So do you go for it with Ray and Bass and spend the money, or do you give time to your 2nd year players around your established star-ensemble cast, or do you even play your rookies around them, or do you save the money and let the rooks compete with 2nd year players for minutes, forcing Doc to play one of them?

He'd probably go with Quisy...

But in any case, I think we're in a tough spot because we have a team that is good enough to do deep/too good to break up, but not quite strong enough up top to win it all (IMO).

Personally, I don't think Bass and Ray off the bench don't improve our chances much more than having JJJ and Moore off the bench, at least not $10M more, and surely not $20M more if luxury tax ends up being involved.

So if I'm management, I go with Moore/JJJ or the rooks for those minutes. Perhaps I go full-out youth movement and play JJJ and a rookie PF minutes (by starving Doc of veterans).

I always bring back Quisy, who is always worth a spot.

If we have enough rotation-worthy players to limit the minutes on KG and Pierce to under-30 in the regular season, I think we have an outside shot of a deep playoff run.

I'm not sure I'd pay top roster payroll for an outside shot at a deep run. So some of those rotation spots need to be filled by guys on rookie deals.

So...can we win by bringing our team back?

Will Bradley be able to check Wade?

Will Pierce and Green be able to effectively check Lebron for 24 minutes each?

Will Steimsma be able to play 20-24 minutes per night?

Who will step up at PF? Wilcox or Bass as starter? JJJ or a rookie?

This is where I think the difference will be made: at PF. There's no money to bring in a big name/star. Perhaps we S&T Bass and Ray for one? Trade picks for one? Trade up for one? Pay Wilcox and Bass their asking prices on bloated 2-year deals to match KG's?

sofutomygaha · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2012, 02:11:46 PM »

I think that if you're going to go this route, you also need to call up Nenad Krstic. He was one of the top players in the euroleague this year, which says to me that he is staying in shape and would be ready to make a meaningful contribution off the bench next year. We have his Bird rights and he is contractually free to come back to the NBA.

I like Chris Wilcox a lot because of his hustle, but Krstic for all of his pillowy softness is a better rebounder and a much more skilled offensive player.

More Banners · « **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2012, 02:20:33 PM »

Quote from: sofutomygaha on June 18, 2012, 02:11:46 PM

I think that if you're going to go this route, you also need to call up Nenad Krstic. He was one of the top players in the euroleague this year, which says to me that he is staying in shape and would be ready to make a meaningful contribution off the bench next year. We have his Bird rights and he is contractually free to come back to the NBA.

I like Chris Wilcox a lot because of his hustle, but Krstic for all of his pillowy softness is a better rebounder and a much more skilled offensive player.

Nice.

Okay...

Rondo/Dooling/Moore
Bradley/Ray/rookie
Pierce/JGreen/rookie
Bass/Wilcox/JJJ
KG/Krystic/Steimsma

So Moore, JJJ, Steimsma, and the rookies become 3rd string, and Quisy and Sasha are out, right?

Okay...yes, I think that team can win the whole thing as the best ensemble cast ever and deepest Celtic team since the 1960's!!!

Yes, I do think that with Bradley starting and a bench that includes Ray (healthy), Green, Krystic, and Wilcox, we can win it all.

LooseCannon · « **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2012, 02:30:17 PM »

The best case scenario is that the Celtics make good use of the MLE, at least one of the rookies plays well enough to contribute more than Glen Davis did as a rookie, Avery Bradley continues his improvement so that claims that his upside is potentially Joe Dumars level, and Jeff Green looks like a borderline Sixth Man of the Year candidate while everyone is healthy during playoff time.

While all of those happening seems unlikely, they all sound plausible. There is nothing the team can do to be considered one of the favorites next season, but this team can certainly be perceived as having at least as good of a chance as they did this season.

Yogi · « **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2012, 02:36:26 PM »

I like Kristic, I am just not sure he fits in with the new direction the team has taken based primarily around Defense/Athleticism.
If we do move up in the draft and package our picks, we might bring back Pietrus also. Is this financially possible? The salaries would add up to around 70-80 million (depending on KG/Ray/Green/Bass). But we should have the bird rights of all these players right? I would be happy if this is the worst case scenario (no big deals fall into place/no outside free agents.)

tyrone biggums · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2012, 04:05:36 PM »

Are you kidding me? This team would be terrible!!! it's not like that core could ever reach the Eastern Conference Finals or get within one quarter of the NBA finals. Terrible squad...

SMH at these self deprecating threads

To add onto my point we have a ton of cap room and 2 1st round picks to add to the core that pushed the Heat to SEVEN GAMES!!!!!! If Green Bradley and Wilcox are all back they'll add more depth to the bench (Allen if he comes back is the starter no doubt about that). People haven't had faith in this team since the Perk trade, after that it seems like losing Bill Russell Jr. was too much for our poor fan base to believe in this team!

Yogi · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2012, 04:21:14 PM »

Quote from: tyrone biggums on June 18, 2012, 04:05:36 PM

Are you kidding me? This team would be terrible!!! it's not like that core could ever reach the Eastern Conference Finals or get within one quarter of the NBA finals. Terrible squad...

SMH at these self deprecating threads

To add onto my point we have a ton of cap room and 2 1st round picks to add to the core that pushed the Heat to SEVEN GAMES!!!!!! If Green Bradley and Wilcox are all back they'll add more depth to the bench (Allen if he comes back is the starter no doubt about that). People haven't had faith in this team since the Perk trade, after that it seems like losing Bill Russell Jr. was too much for our poor fan base to believe in this team!

Why is this thread self-deprecating? I think they have a great shot bringing back the guys if we could catch a break with health. In fact, I never doubted that we would make a deep playoff run. If we weren't decimated by injuries again, I thought we would've won it all for sure. But it is pretty tough to imagine the Big 3 getting through another 82 game grind, stay healthy and still have the gas to go to the finals. That's not an unreasonable point of view.

hardlyyardley · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2012, 04:23:21 PM »

We cannot be a contender as structured assuming a slip in the big 3 due to age....let's get on with the rebuilding, use the picks and the $$$ and go to it....if Garnett and allen return what about the following year....where are we?

tyrone biggums · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2012, 04:33:12 PM »

Quote from: Yogi on June 18, 2012, 04:21:14 PM

Quote from: tyrone biggums on June 18, 2012, 04:05:36 PM
Are you kidding me? This team would be terrible!!! it's not like that core could ever reach the Eastern Conference Finals or get within one quarter of the NBA finals. Terrible squad...

SMH at these self deprecating threads

To add onto my point we have a ton of cap room and 2 1st round picks to add to the core that pushed the Heat to SEVEN GAMES!!!!!! If Green Bradley and Wilcox are all back they'll add more depth to the bench (Allen if he comes back is the starter no doubt about that). People haven't had faith in this team since the Perk trade, after that it seems like losing Bill Russell Jr. was too much for our poor fan base to believe in this team!

Why is this thread self-deprecating? I think they have a great shot bringing back the guys if we could catch a break with health. In fact, I never doubted that we would make a deep playoff run. If we weren't decimated by injuries again, I thought we would've won it all for sure. But it is pretty tough to imagine the Big 3 getting through another 82 game grind, stay healthy and still have the gas to go to the finals. That's not an unreasonable point of view.

I think I've been just scarred by the fact everyone wants to blow this team up, that being said I agree with you 100%

Celtics4ever · « **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2012, 05:34:33 PM »

Quote

Re: Can we win by bringing our team back?

Count me as a no. Too much injuries year and out as our big three is old and prone to injury. We need an interior big who can board.