Author Topic: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap  (Read 6486 times)

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Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« on: June 15, 2012, 03:09:17 PM »

Offline TheRev72

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Dwight Howard and Deron Williams are the only all-NBA level talents available right now. The Celtics need to get them both to beat the Heat and Thunder juggernauts that will likely otherwise rule the NBA for the forseeable future.

I think the following scenario works to get Howard and Williams on the team under the salary cap. Please let me know if you see any salary cap flaws that make what follows impossible. (Warning - this hinges on a Rondo/Green for Howard trade.)

Players under contract next year: $30.5M
Paul Pierce: $16.79 million
Rajon Rondo: $11 million
Avery Bradley: $1.63 million
JaJuan Johnson: 1.089 million

Renounce all free agents and options, except for Moore and Jeff Green, to clear remaining cap holds.

Pick up option on Moore at about $800K
Sign Jeff Green to a multi-year deal avg. of $7-8M

Salaries now at around $40M

Trade Rondo + Green (sign & trade) + draft picks #21 and #22 to Orlando for Howard at $19.2M. (Rondo's value coming off these playoffs will probably never be higher.)*

The salaries match so Celtics team salaries stay at $40M

Presuming a 2012-13 cap of about $60M that leaves about $20M space to sign Williams and spare parts.

2012-2013 core:

Williams
Bradley
Pierce
Howard

A starting power forward and bench depth (to go with Moore and JJJ) would still need to be addressed but I think Ainge likes to get his stars in place first and then fill in the blanks later. Hopefully there would be enough wiggle room to bring back Stiemsma.

2013-2014

Exercise option on Pierce (who probably retires), resign Dwight Howard. Use cap space from Pierce option to find a third scorer to go with Williams and Howard.

* In my opinion, my proposed trade with Orlando leaves the Magic in good shape to rebuild with Rondo, Reddick, Jeff Green, and a re-signed Ryan Andersen as a good young core of assets, along with draft picks 19, 20, and 21 (and the potential to trade up in this draft).

Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 03:21:45 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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A big issue is that Orlando wants to dump hedo in almost any trade they do for Dwight. I think pierce has to be a part of a deal as a result. Pierce, rondo, and the picks for Howard and hedo seems to make the most sense. Orlando could then move pierce for gasol. Then maybe move Nelson for a wing player depending on if he opts in or out.


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Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 03:27:45 PM »

Offline TheRev72

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A big issue is that Orlando wants to dump hedo in almost any trade they do for Dwight. I think pierce has to be a part of a deal as a result. Pierce, rondo, and the picks for Howard and hedo seems to make the most sense. Orlando could then move pierce for gasol. Then maybe move Nelson for a wing player depending on if he opts in or out.

Yes, I think you could change the trade to be Rondo + Pierce + the two draft picks (about $30M in salary) for Howard and Turkoglu (about $30M in salary). That would mean the Celtics could keep Green instead of Pierce. Sounds good, although I hate the idea of paying Turkoglu through the 2013-14 season. (Although he would be an expiring deal that year.)

Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 03:31:45 PM »

Offline snively

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If Orlando wants Rondo as the centerpiece of a Howard trade, sure.  I just doubt it.  I don't think we have the trade assets to land Howard.
2025 Draft: Chicago Bulls

PG: Chauncey Billups/Deron Williams
SG: Kobe Bryant/Eric Gordon
SF: Jimmy Butler/Danny Granger/Danilo Gallinari
PF: Al Horford/Zion Williamson
C: Yao Ming/Pau Gasol/Tyson Chandler

Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 03:35:33 PM »

Offline TheRev72

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Even more attractive to Orlando if Ainge does the Rondo + Pierce trade for Howard and Turkoglu is that Pierce probably retires.

Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 03:37:54 PM »

Offline 2short

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Both guys are very good talents (not great) but I'd rather keep our celtics, they are team players and work their butts off.  Both Williams and Howard have had some pretty "interesting" attitude/team issues lately.

Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 04:19:38 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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Why don't we just wait a year to get Howard?

If we go for a title this year it will be with the core of Peirce, KG and Rondo and hopefuly Allen.

But if you just want some thing for the future, why not wait and develop the Rooks this year, get Green comfortable with the 3 spot again.

Then you know  Josh Smith is most likely (if he has it his way) coming to town. That would make Howard turn his head north. Play with a star PF and PG, and maybe an emerging SG and SF. This would be a killer team of Defense and Offense. I mean Green would be your possibly your weakest defender...Not to bad I'd say.


Rondo/Moore
Bradley/Mayo
Green/Pick up
Smith/Bass/JJJ
Howard/???

Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 04:25:24 PM »

Offline TheRev72

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Why don't we just wait a year to get Howard?


You have to entice them to come to the Celtics with the lure of playing together. If you don't act now, Williams will likely head to Dallas and Dwight will go Lord knows where next summer.

Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 04:29:44 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Why don't we just wait a year to get Howard?


You have to entice them to come to the Celtics with the lure of playing together. If you don't act now, Williams will likely head to Dallas and Dwight will go Lord knows where next summer.


I don't think he's talking about Williams. Read again. He's talking about keeping Rondo and bringing the ATL connection(Smith and Howard) up here to play with them after this year. All this is contingent on KG and Paul retiring after this season though.
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Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2012, 05:29:45 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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can players be packaged with sign-and-trade?  I thought there was a rule against it.  Like... you can sign-and-trade Jeff Green by himself, but you can't sign-and-trade Jeff Green + Rondo.  Can someone clarify?

Btw... it wouldn't really matter anyways.  You wouldn't need to match salaries if you had cap space.  In theory if you renounced everyone, you could trade Rondo for Dwight straight up and it would work, because we could swallow the extra 8 mil of Dwight's contract.  Bigger issue is that it appears nobody outside Boston values Rondo the way the Celtics do.  Outside Boston, he's just seen as a top 6 point guard... I imagine the Magic would want something more substantial.

Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2012, 05:34:26 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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A big issue is that Orlando wants to dump hedo in almost any trade they do for Dwight. I think pierce has to be a part of a deal as a result. Pierce, rondo, and the picks for Howard and hedo seems to make the most sense. Orlando could then move pierce for gasol. Then maybe move Nelson for a wing player depending on if he opts in or out.

Yes, I think you could change the trade to be Rondo + Pierce + the two draft picks (about $30M in salary) for Howard and Turkoglu (about $30M in salary). That would mean the Celtics could keep Green instead of Pierce. Sounds good, although I hate the idea of paying Turkoglu through the 2013-14 season. (Although he would be an expiring deal that year.)
Knowing PIerce, he'd veto this.  He seems to veto it every time we try to trade him.  On the bright side, if he threatened retirement, the Magic would still probably see it as a positive since they'd be ridding themselves of Hedo's contract for a guy who instantly retired (and saved them money)

Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2012, 05:36:31 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Why don't we just wait a year to get Howard?


You have to entice them to come to the Celtics with the lure of playing together. If you don't act now, Williams will likely head to Dallas and Dwight will go Lord knows where next summer.
Yeah.  Dwight Howard isnt' going to end up a free agent.  It's not happening.  Either he agrees to an extension with Orlando or he's traded to a place (Brooklyn) where he will sign long term.  There is no scenario where the team holding the Dwight Howard chip loses him for absolutely nothing.

Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2012, 05:45:06 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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A big issue is that Orlando wants to dump hedo in almost any trade they do for Dwight. I think pierce has to be a part of a deal as a result. Pierce, rondo, and the picks for Howard and hedo seems to make the most sense. Orlando could then move pierce for gasol. Then maybe move Nelson for a wing player depending on if he opts in or out.

Yes, I think you could change the trade to be Rondo + Pierce + the two draft picks (about $30M in salary) for Howard and Turkoglu (about $30M in salary). That would mean the Celtics could keep Green instead of Pierce. Sounds good, although I hate the idea of paying Turkoglu through the 2013-14 season. (Although he would be an expiring deal that year.)
Knowing PIerce, he'd veto this.  He seems to veto it every time we try to trade him.  On the bright side, if he threatened retirement, the Magic would still probably see it as a positive since they'd be ridding themselves of Hedo's contract for a guy who instantly retired (and saved them money)

Agreed that pierce wouldn't want to go to Orlando. That's why I think the magic would then have to turn around and flip him for gasol assuming the lakers would be interested. I think pierce would be cool with going to the lakers and back to Cali.

Pau gasol and rondo for Howard and dumping hedo is really a good haul for Orlando at this point.

Again it be up to the lakers in my scenario. A thread on here somewhere mentions that Bucher was told by many GMs that they would try and trade gasol for pierce.


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Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2012, 05:52:38 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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Why don't we just wait a year to get Howard?


You have to entice them to come to the Celtics with the lure of playing together. If you don't act now, Williams will likely head to Dallas and Dwight will go Lord knows where next summer.
Yeah.  Dwight Howard isnt' going to end up a free agent.  It's not happening.  Either he agrees to an extension with Orlando or he's traded to a place (Brooklyn) where he will sign long term.  There is no scenario where the team holding the Dwight Howard chip loses him for absolutely nothing.

Brooklyn doesn't have anything for trade. Lopez doesn't do it. They would need a third party to get anything out of it. Im sure a team will make a move for him, I just don't think getting rid of probably the second or third best PG in the game right now is key.

I'd rather take on Okafor's contract with the 10th than trade Rondo, Green and picks for Howard.


Re: Howard + D. Williams & the Salary Cap
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2012, 06:12:32 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Why don't we just wait a year to get Howard?


You have to entice them to come to the Celtics with the lure of playing together. If you don't act now, Williams will likely head to Dallas and Dwight will go Lord knows where next summer.
Yeah.  Dwight Howard isnt' going to end up a free agent.  It's not happening.  Either he agrees to an extension with Orlando or he's traded to a place (Brooklyn) where he will sign long term.  There is no scenario where the team holding the Dwight Howard chip loses him for absolutely nothing.

Brooklyn doesn't have anything for trade. Lopez doesn't do it. They would need a third party to get anything out of it. Im sure a team will make a move for him, I just don't think getting rid of probably the second or third best PG in the game right now is key.

I'd rather take on Okafor's contract with the 10th than trade Rondo, Green and picks for Howard.


FYI... I don't think Jeff Green can be sign-and-traded at all.  "The player must finish the preceding season with that team (deals are no longer allowed that sign-and-trade players who are out of the league, such as the sign-and-trade that sent Keith Van Horn from Dallas to New Jersey as part of the Jason Kidd trade in 2008)." ... I think this pertains to Jeff Green who actually didn't finish the preceding season with the Celtics.  He wasn't under contract in any way (as far as I know).  Additionally.. I don't think you can include other players in a sign-and-trade

As for Brooklyn...  they might not have the same assets as a team like the Lakers (Bynum)... but a lot of this comes down to what Dwight Howard wants.  If he refuses to play somewhere or refuses to sign an extension, I doubt teams will give up much for him.  For instance, I'm fine with trading Rondo + two 1st rounders for Dwight... but if Dwight refuses to sign long-term, there is no way in hell I'm giving up Rondo for a 1 year rental.  Since Brooklyn seems to be the only team that Dwight wants to play for... they have the upper hand.  I'm sure they'd be fine trading anything other than Deron Williams.  So Brook Lopez, Marshon Brooks + whatever other trash they can muster up will be their offer.   If it was possible to include sign-and-traded players with other assets, you could talk about them including Kris Humphries or Gerald Wallace, but as I said... I don't believe that's possible.