Perk trade still haunting the Celtics?

[chambers]

It was terrible trade.

I think trade wasn't financial as many seem to assume. Perk had the misfortune playing alongside Point guard who couldn't score. Floor spacing was an issue then, and it remains an issue now. To circumvent that Ainge coveted shooters to keep floor spaced. The tradeoff was Danny Ainge got the shooters he wanted, but the belly of our defense got softer. Celtics lost their enforcer and a locker-room leader.

This team with Jeff Green and Krstic would have been pretty formidable this year, plus we got a first round pick.
Perkins wouldn't even be around next year because he'd be getting overpriced offers that we'd never pay him anyway.
We made out like bandits if you ask me.
Typical Celtics bad luck struck and we lost Krstic and Green in the same season but we still ended up with the better end of the stick.
OKC will be kicking themselves for paying Perkins so much now.

Yes.  Do you see how disappointed they are with their team right now?

Actually although they love their team right now the one problem they have is not having a big man that can score in the paint which is the only thing that can really stop them from beating the Heat, even if they are large favorites. Perkins is a role player being paid 8-9 million next year- this is probably the single biggest issue for OKC fans and their management.
They won't love it when each player asks to get his fair share of pay come contract renewal time. Someone most likely has to go. Who is going out of Perk, Ibaka and Harden?

You think they traded and resigned Perkins to get a low post offensive threat?

It's obvious you love Perkins or you're not a fan of the trade (most likely both). It's okay to let your emotions cloud logical judgement so I'll lay it out for you. This is like groundhog day.

1) Perkins had injured his knee, and he's only just come back to something resembling his former self as a Celtic (almost 2 years later). His vertical lift and lateral movement are clearly still not at the level they once were.
2) In addition to being injured, he was demanding a contract beginning at 7 million dollars, moving up to 8 and 9 million dollars over 4 years.
3)He is a role player and his spot is very replaceable.
4) After playing next to Kevin Garnett for 3 seasons and being carried on KG's shoulders, his value skyrocketed- similarly to what will happen to Brandon Bass's value and why we probably won't re-sign him (Bass) for less than 7 million. (he's a goner).
5)We gained a starting 7 footer, a starting caliber NBA small forward, and a first round pick in a loaded draft.
We were unlucky with the lockout and Jeff Green's health but I don't think it's fair to say that these things can really be foreseen or weighed into the decision making in this trade.
The correct decision was made at the end of the day, regardless of how luck factored into the equation.
6) Perkins will be gone from OKC, probably after this season. If not, probably by the trade deadline (or whenever the Thunder are forced to resign Ibaka and Harden to their requested money).

In summary: Kendrick Perkins, whilst being a fantastic role player is simply not worth 8-9 million dollars of the Boston Celtics cap space. Some may argue that holding Perkins and then using him in a sign and trade would have been a better route to take. Unfortunately, these people fail to realize that given the age of Paul Pierce and the steady gradual decline of the big three with age, a bench scorer/rebounder that could run the floor with Rajon Rondo was a vital piece as we moved forward into the twilight years of our 'Big 3's' careers- much more important than solid starting center role player- particularly now that the Miami Heat had built a super team based around perimeter offense and not interior post scoring, quite contrary to their Western conference counterparts. Jeff Green wasn't there just to score and relieve Pierce and Garnett off the bench, he was there to guard Lebron James and Dwayne Wade, whilst running the floor on offense with Rajon Rondo and ultimately Avery Bradley. (Which we'll see plenty of in the Celtics future).
It's been argued that the corpse of Jermaine Oneal was just as effective as Kendrick Perkins when healthy- again because our Hall of Fame Power Forward Kevin Garnett could roam freely around the paint as long as there was a solid big body under the rim to help on rotations and set hard screens.
Because essentially, that's what the Thunder are paying Perkins to do. Set hard screens, rotate defensively on time and body up on Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum and Marc Gasol on their Western Conference contenders.
No doubt he's somewhat of a defensive captain and taught the Thunder a lot about hard nosed paint protection (Who wouldn't after three years of tutelage from the great Garnett?), but the city, fans and management have come to realize that the big fella with the 15 inch vertical isn't valuable enough to keep around now that their young pups have matured and are demanding big boy money.

[missyP]

Yes it was a bad trade then and still is. For the simple reason that defensive centers are game changers, even without being scorers, and they DO NOT grow on trees. With Perk manning the center with KG, we never had opposing gaurds waltz down the middle and drow fouls on us every 5sec. Miami could never beat us 4 out of 7 times because they will had to do it through jump shooting (see lebron with the Cavs).

But we can move on from it the moment we finally draft or trade for a defensive minded big men. Until then, i will keep my sour grapes stance on getting Jeff & Kristic for Perk.

[wdleehi]

It was terrible trade.

I think trade wasn't financial as many seem to assume. Perk had the misfortune playing alongside Point guard who couldn't score. Floor spacing was an issue then, and it remains an issue now. To circumvent that Ainge coveted shooters to keep floor spaced. The tradeoff was Danny Ainge got the shooters he wanted, but the belly of our defense got softer. Celtics lost their enforcer and a locker-room leader.

This team with Jeff Green and Krstic would have been pretty formidable this year, plus we got a first round pick.
Perkins wouldn't even be around next year because he'd be getting overpriced offers that we'd never pay him anyway.
We made out like bandits if you ask me.
Typical Celtics bad luck struck and we lost Krstic and Green in the same season but we still ended up with the better end of the stick.
OKC will be kicking themselves for paying Perkins so much now.

Yes.  Do you see how disappointed they are with their team right now?

Actually although they love their team right now the one problem they have is not having a big man that can score in the paint which is the only thing that can really stop them from beating the Heat, even if they are large favorites. Perkins is a role player being paid 8-9 million next year- this is probably the single biggest issue for OKC fans and their management.
They won't love it when each player asks to get his fair share of pay come contract renewal time. Someone most likely has to go. Who is going out of Perk, Ibaka and Harden?

You think they traded and resigned Perkins to get a low post offensive threat?

It's obvious you love Perkins or you're not a fan of the trade (most likely both). It's okay to let your emotions cloud logical judgement so I'll lay it out for you. This is like groundhog day.

1) Perkins had injured his knee, and he's only just come back to something resembling his former self as a Celtic (almost 2 years later). His vertical lift and lateral movement are clearly still not at the level they once were.
2) In addition to being injured, he was demanding a contract beginning at 7 million dollars, moving up to 8 and 9 million dollars over 4 years.
3)He is a role player and his spot is very replaceable.
4) After playing next to Kevin Garnett for 3 seasons and being carried on KG's shoulders, his value skyrocketed- similarly to what will happen to Brandon Bass's value and why we probably won't re-sign him (Bass) for less than 7 million. (he's a goner).
5)We gained a starting 7 footer, a starting caliber NBA small forward, and a first round pick in a loaded draft.
We were unlucky with the lockout and Jeff Green's health but I don't think it's fair to say that these things can really be foreseen or weighed into the decision making in this trade.
The correct decision was made at the end of the day, regardless of how luck factored into the equation.
6) Perkins will be gone from OKC, probably after this season. If not, probably by the trade deadline (or whenever the Thunder are forced to resign Ibaka and Harden to their requested money).

In summary: Kendrick Perkins, whilst being a fantastic role player is simply not worth 8-9 million dollars of the Boston Celtics cap space. Some may argue that holding Perkins and then using him in a sign and trade would have been a better route to take. Unfortunately, these people fail to realize that given the age of Paul Pierce and the steady gradual decline of the big three with age, a bench scorer/rebounder that could run the floor with Rajon Rondo was a vital piece as we moved forward into the twilight years of our 'Big 3's' careers- much more important than solid starting center role player- particularly now that the Miami Heat had built a super team based around perimeter offense and not interior post scoring, quite contrary to their Western conference counterparts. Jeff Green wasn't there just to score and relieve Pierce and Garnett off the bench, he was there to guard Lebron James and Dwayne Wade, whilst running the floor on offense with Rajon Rondo and ultimately Avery Bradley. (Which we'll see plenty of in the Celtics future).
It's been argued that the corpse of Jermaine Oneal was just as effective as Kendrick Perkins when healthy- again because our Hall of Fame Power Forward Kevin Garnett could roam freely around the paint as long as there was a solid big body under the rim to help on rotations and set hard screens.
Because essentially, that's what the Thunder are paying Perkins to do. Set hard screens, rotate defensively on time and body up on Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum and Marc Gasol on their Western Conference contenders.
No doubt he's somewhat of a defensive captain and taught the Thunder a lot about hard nosed paint protection (Who wouldn't after three years of tutelage from the great Garnett?), but the city, fans and management have come to realize that the big fella with the 15 inch vertical isn't valuable enough to keep around now that their young pups have matured and are demanding big boy money.

So we should be happy with a trade that gave this team nothing on the floor?  For the starting C on a team in the NBA Finals.  



And please show where I said the Celtics should have given Perk the contract.  



I said the trade was bad, because it was.  Green didn't help last year and the Celtics were without a healthy C in the playoffs.

The trade didn't help this year because there was nothing on the floor to show it.


If they had held onto Perk last year and sign and traded him this offseason, they might have something to show for it now besides a 20 something draft pick.  

[chambers]

It was terrible trade.

I think trade wasn't financial as many seem to assume. Perk had the misfortune playing alongside Point guard who couldn't score. Floor spacing was an issue then, and it remains an issue now. To circumvent that Ainge coveted shooters to keep floor spaced. The tradeoff was Danny Ainge got the shooters he wanted, but the belly of our defense got softer. Celtics lost their enforcer and a locker-room leader.

This team with Jeff Green and Krstic would have been pretty formidable this year, plus we got a first round pick.
Perkins wouldn't even be around next year because he'd be getting overpriced offers that we'd never pay him anyway.
We made out like bandits if you ask me.
Typical Celtics bad luck struck and we lost Krstic and Green in the same season but we still ended up with the better end of the stick.
OKC will be kicking themselves for paying Perkins so much now.

Yes.  Do you see how disappointed they are with their team right now?

Actually although they love their team right now the one problem they have is not having a big man that can score in the paint which is the only thing that can really stop them from beating the Heat, even if they are large favorites. Perkins is a role player being paid 8-9 million next year- this is probably the single biggest issue for OKC fans and their management.
They won't love it when each player asks to get his fair share of pay come contract renewal time. Someone most likely has to go. Who is going out of Perk, Ibaka and Harden?

You think they traded and resigned Perkins to get a low post offensive threat?

It's obvious you love Perkins or you're not a fan of the trade (most likely both). It's okay to let your emotions cloud logical judgement so I'll lay it out for you. This is like groundhog day.

1) Perkins had injured his knee, and he's only just come back to something resembling his former self as a Celtic (almost 2 years later). His vertical lift and lateral movement are clearly still not at the level they once were.
2) In addition to being injured, he was demanding a contract beginning at 7 million dollars, moving up to 8 and 9 million dollars over 4 years.
3)He is a role player and his spot is very replaceable.
4) After playing next to Kevin Garnett for 3 seasons and being carried on KG's shoulders, his value skyrocketed- similarly to what will happen to Brandon Bass's value and why we probably won't re-sign him (Bass) for less than 7 million. (he's a goner).
5)We gained a starting 7 footer, a starting caliber NBA small forward, and a first round pick in a loaded draft.
We were unlucky with the lockout and Jeff Green's health but I don't think it's fair to say that these things can really be foreseen or weighed into the decision making in this trade.
The correct decision was made at the end of the day, regardless of how luck factored into the equation.
6) Perkins will be gone from OKC, probably after this season. If not, probably by the trade deadline (or whenever the Thunder are forced to resign Ibaka and Harden to their requested money).

In summary: Kendrick Perkins, whilst being a fantastic role player is simply not worth 8-9 million dollars of the Boston Celtics cap space. Some may argue that holding Perkins and then using him in a sign and trade would have been a better route to take. Unfortunately, these people fail to realize that given the age of Paul Pierce and the steady gradual decline of the big three with age, a bench scorer/rebounder that could run the floor with Rajon Rondo was a vital piece as we moved forward into the twilight years of our 'Big 3's' careers- much more important than solid starting center role player- particularly now that the Miami Heat had built a super team based around perimeter offense and not interior post scoring, quite contrary to their Western conference counterparts. Jeff Green wasn't there just to score and relieve Pierce and Garnett off the bench, he was there to guard Lebron James and Dwayne Wade, whilst running the floor on offense with Rajon Rondo and ultimately Avery Bradley. (Which we'll see plenty of in the Celtics future).
It's been argued that the corpse of Jermaine Oneal was just as effective as Kendrick Perkins when healthy- again because our Hall of Fame Power Forward Kevin Garnett could roam freely around the paint as long as there was a solid big body under the rim to help on rotations and set hard screens.
Because essentially, that's what the Thunder are paying Perkins to do. Set hard screens, rotate defensively on time and body up on Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum and Marc Gasol on their Western Conference contenders.
No doubt he's somewhat of a defensive captain and taught the Thunder a lot about hard nosed paint protection (Who wouldn't after three years of tutelage from the great Garnett?), but the city, fans and management have come to realize that the big fella with the 15 inch vertical isn't valuable enough to keep around now that their young pups have matured and are demanding big boy money.

So we should be happy with a trade that gave this team nothing on the floor?  For the starting C on a team in the NBA Finals. 



And please show where I said the Celtics should have given Perk the contract. 



I said the trade was bad, because it was.  Green didn't help last year and the Celtics were without a healthy C in the playoffs.

The trade didn't help this year because there was nothing on the floor to show it.


If they had held onto Perk last year and sign and traded him this offseason, they might have something to show for it now besides a 20 something draft pick. 

So let me get this straight, using your logic, if we traded Rajon Rondo for Lebron James and Chris Bosh instead of Perkins for Green+Krstic+pick, but Lebron was found to have heart problems and missed the season, and Chris Bosh decided 6 months later that he wanted to play in Russia- that essentially it's a bad trade because of factors outside of our control? I mean they're not on the floor and we have nothing to show for it so it was a bad trade all together?
Was it a bad choice to draft Len Bias because he died soon after?
You're using your love for Perkins as a mask to reality.

Do you think if we kept Perkins we could have gotten more for him than Krstic, Jeff Green and a first round pick in this loaded draft? Even after his injury?

[wdleehi]

So let me get this straight, using your logic, if we traded Rajon Rondo for Lebron James and Chris Bosh instead of Perkins for Green+Krstic+pick, but Lebron was found to have heart problems and missed the season, and Chris Bosh decided 6 months later that he wanted to play in Russia- that essentially it's a bad trade because of factors outside of our control? I mean they're not on the floor and we have nothing to show for it so it was a bad trade all together?
Was it a bad choice to draft Len Bias because he died soon after?
You're using your love for Perkins as a mask to reality.

Do you think if we kept Perkins we could have gotten more for him than Krstic, Jeff Green and a first round pick after his injury? I highly doubt it.

So Jeff Green equals Lebron now? 



Can we at least try to make an argument that makes sense?


Perk got that contract from the Thunder after the injury.  But nobody would have wanted Perkins after the injury.

[snively]

That trade was a great deal in terms of return: two solid role players on expiring deals and what looked to be a late lottery pick for an expiring middle-of-the-pack starting center coming off a major injury. 

It didn't work out for us (Krstic got injured then went to CSKA Moscow, Green went out with the fluke heart ailment and the Clips pulled off the CP3 trade) as well as could have been expected, but I still don't regret it. 

Perkins is a nice fit for the Thunder, but he's not the reason they're still playing and we're not: the Thunder have 3 of their 4 best players still on their rookie deals and Durant on a relatively cheap max (he makes the same as Pierce - the pitfalls of youth in the NBA).  Their draft bonanza has allowed them to field an absurd amount of talent within the salary cap and still overpay for Perkins (at least in the short term).

[angryguy77]

Kind of hard to evaluate the trade when Green was mia this year. He would have helped keep PP fresh which would have helped last series.

Our defense was pretty good this year, KG was reborn by playing the 5. This doesn't happen if perk is here, nor do I believe our d would have been that much better.

Perk was not worth the money he wanted.

[wdleehi]

Kind of hard to evaluate the trade when Green was mia this year. He would have helped keep PP fresh which would have helped last series.

Our defense was pretty good this year, KG was reborn by playing the 5. This doesn't happen if perk is here, nor do I believe our d would have been that much better.

Perk was not worth the money he wanted.

This is when the team needs Green.  This is where the window was open. 

[Celtics18]

I don't think the trade can be fairly evaluated until somebody (hopefully, the Celtics) gets a full, healthy season out of Jeff Green. 

[soap07]

Anytime you can pay a center 8-9 million to not rebound and be a liability on offense, you've just got to do it. Perkins had a PER of 8.7 (!!!) this year, which is some how worse than last year when he was actually injured.

His rebound percentage of 13.9 was a dismal career low.

For the starting C on a team in the NBA Finals.  

Perkins is the starting center on a Finals team in the same way Sasha Pavlovic was the starting shooting guard on the Cavs that went to the Finals in 2007. It doesn't make him a good center. He was bad this year. He was bad and injured the first year of the trade.

Not paying Perkins the salary he got was one of the best non-Big 3 things Ainge did in his tenure here, along with not paying for Posey.

[angryguy77]

Kind of hard to evaluate the trade when Green was mia this year. He would have helped keep PP fresh which would have helped last series.

Our defense was pretty good this year, KG was reborn by playing the 5. This doesn't happen if perk is here, nor do I believe our d would have been that much better.

Perk was not worth the money he wanted.

This is when the team needs Green.  This is where the window was open. 

Right, we did need him. I understand looking at the trade now in hindsight and saying it was bad, but we can't blame DA for the move because at the time it made sense. Had Shaq stayed healthy, we wouldn't be having this discussion. If we had perk last year we still wouldn't have beaten Miami due to Wades injury to Rondo. Perk would've been gone with nothing to show for it.

With as good as our defense was this year, green would have given us more than perk would have. Our d didn't lose the series for us, it was the scoring droughts and inability to keep PP fresh-something green would have helped with.

[Who]

Nope

[jojowhite10]

Nope

Exactly. People just aren't realizing we wouldn't have re-signed him due to the money he wanted/got. Wyc has said it during a Celtics broadcast that we knew we couldn't re-sign him. So we'd be in the same spot we are now regardless of whether the trade was made. The only difference is we have a slightly smaller chance at signing Jeff Green if we want to. Stop complaining about the trade if you think it was Danny trying to rely on Shaq. He was looking to the future--which is what we all should be doing now anyway.

[Vermont Green]

OK, for the season, Perk had a per 48 minute +/- of -6.9 (I couldn't find it for the playoffs).  His net per 100 possessions on court off court is -7.2.  They are not even breaking even with him on the court.

Think about that.  Think of the caliber of the other 4 players who are on the court with him and he has a negative +/-.  On the Celtics, he would be on the court with even less talent so one would assume an even more negative +/- result.

That is not exactly haunting me.

The way things turned out with Shaq retiring, JO injuries, Wilcox heart, and Krstic bailing, yeah, Perk would be an upgrade over Steisma or Hollins.  If even 1 of those things go the other way, Perk is an after thought.

[ManUp]

Perkins trade *threads* still Haunting Celtic *fans*.