Author Topic: We are YOUNG  (Read 10961 times)

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We are YOUNG
« on: June 11, 2012, 08:25:01 AM »

Offline mctyson

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First and foremost, there are many ways this offseason can turn.  I am not here to make predictions, because anyone who follows this team knows that our GM/President is completely unpredictable.  I think that's a good thing to have in the NBA, but it makes for a lot of uncertainty for this team going into 2012/13.  Draft day trades, picks, free agents, whole roster turnover...all of these are in play for our Boston Celtics.

But I wanted to highlight one particular feature of our current roster that few pundits mention.  Leaving the Big 3 aside (and I would only consider KG to have been essential to our success this year)  we are actually a relatively young team.

At Point Guard, we have a 3rd-team All NBA player who is coming of his best stretch of basketball in his career.  I would argue that Rondo is the best PG in the league right now, tied with Chris Paul, because Rondo can do things on a court that Chris Paul or Tony Parker could only dream of doing.  I believe Rondo should be the cornerstone of this franchise for the next 5 years (assuming no injuries.)  What he did in the playoffs this year is nothing short of amazing, with only Lebron and Durant having - arguably - better postseason play.  Rondo is 25 years old.

At Shooting Guard, we have a former 1st round pick who was at one time the most highly sought after high school prospect in the country.  You don't get to that level of hype without possessing some kind of skill that NBA GM's and coaches drool over.  I believe Avery Bradley will be a 1st-team All NBA Defensive player next year (can't control for corrupt voting.)  He completely rejuvenated our team with his insane ball pressure abilities.  Further, AB developed into a more than reliable offensive option, particularly when paired with Rondo, due to his superior speed and cutting quickness.  His ability to knock down the 3-pt shot will improve with time, though he showed he can do that now.  The jury is still out if he can play the backup PG, but I don't care about that, because he will be the best defensive guard in the league for the next 5 years.  Avery Bradley is 21 years old

AB was not the only bench player to step up and alter our season this year due to injuries and circumstance.  With Jermaine O'neal going down and KG moving to the 5, we needed a starting PF to take KG's place.  Danny Ainge made his most successful trade (so far) to date when he shipped Big Baby and Von Wafer to Orlando for Brandon Bass.  Bass was projected to be an energy guy off the bench for us, who could knock down the open J and get some rebounds (and dunks, which BBD could not do.)  When JO went down, Bass was given the starting PF role.  Along side Rondo and KG, Bass had his best season in the NBA.  Although there were some subpar moments in the playoffs, there were also some tremendous games, including Game 7 against the Heat.  Bass has proven to be a perfect fit for a Rondo-lead offense, and by all accounts is a fantastic teammate to boot.  He has an option on cheap money ($4M) to come back next year, but certainly is worth more than that for more years.  Brandon Bass is 27 years old

We continue to forget that the most significant addition Danny Ainge has made to this team over the past 5 season (outside of draft picks) was the acquisition of a former Top 5 lottery pick in the trade with Perkins.  Jeff Green is a former double-digit offensive threat as a 6'10" Small/Power Forward who was the 3rd best scorer on the team representing the West in the NBA finals this year. He missed the entire year for us, after only playing a few months last year, and is coming off of a scary situation involving heart surgery.  We do not know what his mind and physical health will be like post-surgery, or if another team will offer him money/years on a deal that we can't match.  The good news is that his injury did not involve tendons or muscles in his legs or arms, so assuming that he can get over the conditioning hurdles and any mental challenges of having hear surgery, there is no reason to believe he can't be the player we all know he is capable of.  Jeff Green is 25 years old

We definitely required depth at the 5 this year, but there was nothing available in the FA market or anything worthwhile via trades for Danny to pursue.  As we all know by now, DA and Doc had a NBDL "rookie" project on the roster who was 4 years removed from college, where he barely played more than 10 minutes a game.  How does someone like that make the team for the Boston Celtics?  Well, with Greg Stiemsma, we found out in his first game on the court: he is a rim-protecting, shot-blocking machine given the opportunity.  Stiemer has one NBA-level skill perfected - shot-blocking - but also showed us in spurts that he has nice polish to his offensive game.  He can hit the open set shot out to 18 feet and has decent hands and foot work for a big guy.  He was hampered all season by plantar fasciitis, to the point where he actually never practiced.  I repeat:  we had an NBDL-project "rookie" 4 years removed from college who played limited minutes at Wisconsin, who NEVER PRACTICED, and gave us decent backup minutes at the 5 position.  Who knows what we can get out of a healthy Stiemer next year with a full season of preparation?  Stiemer is 26 years old

Our 1st round pick from last year barely played at all this season.  Much like Jeff Green, he is athletic and versatile 6'10" SF/PF combo player with range and some offensive polish.  Much like Avery Bradley last year, we have no idea whether he is terrible, average, or a player waiting to bust out.  JuJuan Johnson could just be that athletic wing player we need giving us fire off the bench, running the break with Rondo, and getting those long arms in the passing lanes.  JJJ is 23 years old.

We need a reliable backup PG for Rondo, who logged some ridiculous minutes this year and postseason.  No one will ever produce what Rondo does, but we could get a complimentary player who can direct the offense, hit the spot up jumpers, and play solid on-ball defense for 10-15 minutes a game.  Our 2nd round pick from last year was that type of player.  E'twuan Moore showed glimpses this season of being the type of rotation player we need at the PG position, especially in that Orlando game that he single-handedly won for the C's.  Doc actually played E'twaun over Avery Bradley (which would seem preposterous right now) early in the season, albeit at the PG position which is not AB's role.  I think E'twaun has what we need as a backup PG, so long as he can bring it on defense like Keyon Dooling does.  E'twuan Moore is 23 years old.

This does not even include the fact that we are most certainly going to get younger this year with 2 1st-round draft picks.  We are looking at a roster going into next season - before we even deal with the 'Big 3' - that is almost completely under the age of 28.  Now, the argument would of course be that the team that got us to Game 7 was essentially the Big 3 plus Rondo and Bass, but I would argue that the team that got us to Game 7 is nowhere near what our "best team" could have been given our current roster with the injuries we had.  Our best team, meaning the one that had the highest winning percentage this season, didn't even have Ray Allen on it (injury.)

So, in short, our roster is fairly "young" compared to what we are perceived to be.  Bring back KG on a 1-2 year deal, and Pierce with 1-2 years left, and we have a team that has the potential to compete athletically with the Heat/Bulls/OKC's of the world, but we still have the veteran presence and championship pedigree that few teams have.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 08:31:49 AM by mctyson »

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 08:28:49 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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Etwuan Moore won't even be in the league in 2 years . He is not quick enough to stay in front of most sg's or pg's, he is not a very good shooter ( look at his college %'s)

Steamer is a 3rd string center at best

JJJ is still very much unproven and a toothpick

Bass will likely opt out and cash in on his playoff performance.

So our young guys who can be legit rotation players would be Rondo,Bradley and Green. No one else....

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 08:29:43 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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There are young players, but only one young building block.  


The other role players.  Some are coming off worry some injuries.



 

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 08:35:32 AM »

Offline mctyson

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There are young players, but only one young building block.  


The other role players.  Some are coming off worry some injuries.



How is Avery Bradley not a building block?  And do we even know what JJJ or our draft picks will be in 1-2 years?

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 08:39:29 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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I agree that the Cs are relatively young. With Rondo, AB, Green, and Bass forming our key under 28 group.

I have to disagree with the statement that we need a backup for Rondo. I feel this team needs to add a young dynamic scoring 2/3 (preferable a 6'6+ guy). An example in this draft would be Terrance Ross or Will Barton )with Ray being able to fill this role for one more season if he returns). Same idea as what Harden give OKC (they struck gold with harden, not likely to happen). The Cs need a poor man's harden. If the celtics can have this type of player off the bench then there guard rotation would be as follows

PG Rondo 38 min,  AB 10min
SG AB    28 min, athletic 2/3 20 min


this athletic 2/3 would then ideally serve as J Greens backup in the post PP years, and between the 2 and 3 get 30+ minutes and act as the off the bench scorer.
  
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Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 08:40:53 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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There are young players, but only one young building block.  


The other role players.  Some are coming off worry some injuries.



How is Avery Bradley not a building block?  And do we even know what JJJ or our draft picks will be in 1-2 years?

Less then a full season of being a strong role player and already he is a building block?  



He is a starting role player.  He is not a star.  Celtics need at least one young star and one young fringe star to go with Rondo.  Bradley fit in there as a starter (maybe), but he is not the guy you use as the foundation.  

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 08:41:59 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Etwuan Moore won't even be in the league in 2 years . He is not quick enough to stay in front of most sg's or pg's, he is not a very good shooter ( look at his college %'s)

I will stick to his performance in the NBA to evaluate him as an NBA player, thank you.  Doc clearly thinks he can play.

Steamer is a 3rd string center at best
.

Funny, because he was our backup all season.


JJJ is still very much unproven and a toothpick


My point was that he is unproven, but only 23 years old, so he has time to become "proven."


Bass will likely opt out and cash in on his playoff performance.

I don't think Bass gets anymore than $6M from another team, and that would be a fine figure for us to pay him.


So our young guys who can be legit rotation players would be Rondo,Bradley and Green. No one else....

I guess it depends on your definition of legit.  Rotation players include starters and guys who play 8-10 minutes a game. No team goes 8 deep with All-Stars and 1st round draft picks.  

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 08:45:31 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Etwuan Moore won't even be in the league in 2 years . He is not quick enough to stay in front of most sg's or pg's, he is not a very good shooter ( look at his college %'s)

I will stick to his performance in the NBA to evaluate him as an NBA player, thank you.  Doc clearly thinks he can play.

Steamer is a 3rd string center at best
.

Funny, because he was our backup all season.


JJJ is still very much unproven and a toothpick


My point was that he is unproven, but only 23 years old, so he has time to become "proven."


Bass will likely opt out and cash in on his playoff performance.

I don't think Bass gets anymore than $6M from another team, and that would be a fine figure for us to pay him.


So our young guys who can be legit rotation players would be Rondo,Bradley and Green. No one else....

I guess it depends on your definition of legit.  Rotation players include starters and guys who play 8-10 minutes a game. No team goes 8 deep with All-Stars and 1st round draft picks.  


Moore is a fringe NBA player that has a high probability of getting caught in the numbers game as the Celtics have two 1sts and a 2nd coming in next season.


Steamer could develop into a strong number 2 C.  Right now, he is more of a 3/2 C.

JJJ is unproven and has a long way to go to be just a role player (still expecting him to develop into one)


6 million is to much for Bass on a long term contract for a team so close to having a roster turnover.

Green was a role player at best, not a building block, before he had a heart condition.  How can the Celtics count on him to be a building block?

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 08:47:57 AM »

Offline rondohondo

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Etwuan Moore won't even be in the league in 2 years . He is not quick enough to stay in front of most sg's or pg's, he is not a very good shooter ( look at his college %'s)

I will stick to his performance in the NBA to evaluate him as an NBA player, thank you.  Doc clearly thinks he can play.

Steamer is a 3rd string center at best
.

Funny, because he was our backup all season.


JJJ is still very much unproven and a toothpick


My point was that he is unproven, but only 23 years old, so he has time to become "proven."


Bass will likely opt out and cash in on his playoff performance.

I don't think Bass gets anymore than $6M from another team, and that would be a fine figure for us to pay him.


So our young guys who can be legit rotation players would be Rondo,Bradley and Green. No one else....

I guess it depends on your definition of legit.  Rotation players include starters and guys who play 8-10 minutes a game. No team goes 8 deep with All-Stars and 1st round draft picks.  

Yea Doc clearly think Moore can play because of all of those mins he got during the regular season and playoffs? He didn't sniff the floor even after Bradley went down, Rondo has no backup PG and Ray was playing on one leg. Doc must have so much confidence in him .

Steamer wouldn't have even seen the floor if our starting center and backup center weren't out for the season .

By rotation players I mean guys who can be in your top 8 players on a contender .

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2012, 08:53:14 AM »

Offline mctyson

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There are young players, but only one young building block.  


The other role players.  Some are coming off worry some injuries.



How is Avery Bradley not a building block?  And do we even know what JJJ or our draft picks will be in 1-2 years?

Less then a full season of being a strong role player and already he is a building block?  

He is a starting role player.  He is not a star.  Celtics need at least one young star and one young fringe star to go with Rondo.  Bradley fit in there as a starter (maybe), but he is not the guy you use as the foundation.  

Here our Bradley's splits when he started for us as our SG:  

28 games, 33.6 minutes per game, 12 points per game, 50% shooting, 47% 3-pt shooting, 80% FT shooting, 3 Rebounds per game, 2 assists per game, 1 steal per game.  And all world defense.

If that is not a building block for someone who is 21-years old, I don't know what magical player you think is going to drop out of the sky for us.

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2012, 08:55:26 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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There are young players, but only one young building block.  


The other role players.  Some are coming off worry some injuries.



How is Avery Bradley not a building block?  And do we even know what JJJ or our draft picks will be in 1-2 years?

Less then a full season of being a strong role player and already he is a building block?  

He is a starting role player.  He is not a star.  Celtics need at least one young star and one young fringe star to go with Rondo.  Bradley fit in there as a starter (maybe), but he is not the guy you use as the foundation.  

Here our Bradley's splits when he started for us as our SG:  

28 games, 33.6 minutes per game, 12 points per game, 50% shooting, 47% 3-pt shooting, 80% FT shooting, 3 Rebounds per game, 2 assists per game, 1 steal per game.  And all world defense.

If that is not a building block for someone who is 21-years old, I don't know what magical player you think is going to drop out of the sky for us.



28 games.  And he provided the team role player type numbers with those games.



There is nothing wrong with a young player being a role player.  Being called a role player is not code for "bad player" 


It just means that the player is not a star. 

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2012, 08:56:52 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Green was a role player at best, not a building block, before he had a heart condition.  How can the Celtics count on him to be a building block?

Jeff Green started for OKC when we traded for him.  At 24. If you define role players as guys who start for NBA playoff teams, then I want 10 of them.

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2012, 08:57:20 AM »

Offline cman88

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The games moore played I think he showed a lot of potential of developing into a solid backup sg/pg...he has nice poise and can shoot the ball.

Jjj can become a landry/bass type player imo

Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2012, 09:00:42 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Green was a role player at best, not a building block, before he had a heart condition.  How can the Celtics count on him to be a building block?

Jeff Green started for OKC when we traded for him.  At 24. If you define role players as guys who start for NBA playoff teams, then I want 10 of them.


Yes, some role players start in the NBA.  For example:

Green
Perkins
Battier
Bass
Boozer
Fisher
JJ Redick
Randy Foye
Conley
Bruce Bowens



Re: We are YOUNG
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2012, 09:02:08 AM »

Offline mctyson

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It just means that the player is not a star. 

Again...what magical stars are going to fall out of the sky for you with our team?  Please, offer your options.  I have listed the fact that the remaining players on our roster, outside of the old guys everyone are fixated on, are all young and have contributed to the success of this team to varying degrees.

My points on AB all stand, and our supported by his play this year.  That is all we have to go on. And so far, he is everything we could possibly want him to be up to this point.