How's my Historical Team? (Awesome right!)

[Donoghus]

Alright, so I still need to build my presentation but figured I'd throw out my completed roster and solicit some feedback since I haven't solicited feedback since mid-draft.  Anything would be appreciated.

Memphis Grizzlies

PG: Kevin Johnson/Mookie Blaylock
SG: Jeff Hornacek/Jim Jackson/Steve Kerr
SF: Bruce Bowen/Xavier McDaniel/Cedric Ceballos
PF: Pau Gasol/Al Horford/Dale Davis
C:  David Robinson/Hot Rod Williams

I really liked your team to start, Dons. But not a fan of the wings at all. I really hated your Bowen pick - thought you needed more offense out of the 3 (maybe a shot creator), or at least someone with a little more bulk

See, my goal here was to try and make things as rounded (offensively, defensively, rebounding, scoring, passing, etc..) as possible.  Early on, I came to the conclusion that I was going to place to onus of my scoring on my big men and my guards. 

Knowing that most teams around here were going to build on the wings, I figured that I'd go in a different direction and use the wing (namely, Bowen) for defensively purposes. However, McDaniel wasn't exactly a scoring slouch.  The guy averaged 23 ppg in '86-87.  Not that Ceballos actually gets many minutes but he was also another wing that scored 20+ ppg.

I do think having only 3 active players on this roster and a good deal of late 80s & early 90s players hurts me since there is going to be an unfamiliarity factor with many and the tendency to go with things in the present and near-present as superior. 

Mostly just going for all-around from a skills standpoint and a team that would actually have solid chemistry/fit.

[Rondo2287]

Tim Duncan Laughs at not being in the top 3

Ben Wallace was a dealbreaker for me.

Shaq also though Ben Wallace was a dealbreaker, look at what happened to him...

[Who]

Alright, so I still need to build my presentation but figured I'd throw out my completed roster and solicit some feedback since I haven't solicited feedback since mid-draft.  Anything would be appreciated.

Memphis Grizzlies

PG: Kevin Johnson/Mookie Blaylock
SG: Jeff Hornacek/Jim Jackson/Steve Kerr
SF: Bruce Bowen/Xavier McDaniel/Cedric Ceballos
PF: Pau Gasol/Al Horford/Dale Davis
C:  David Robinson/Hot Rod Williams

I really liked your team to start, Dons. But not a fan of the wings at all. I really hated your Bowen pick - thought you needed more offense out of the 3 (maybe a shot creator), or at least someone with a little more bulk

I have the same problem with it -- the wings. Hornacek is too small and too much of a liability in terms of defense and rebounding to be a starter in this Historical League. Bowen is a limited player who I think could function as a starter but I don't like him alongside Hornacek (and a small PG in KJ too).

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I am also not wild about the Kevin Johnson, David Robinson and Pau Gasol troika.

I think Robinson and Pau can work very well together (in a halfcourt post-orientated game) and I think Robinson and KJ are terrific together (uptempo, PG centric offense) but I don't like them altogether. I think there is ideally two very different systems there to take full advantage of each individual's skill-set and I think that's a problem.

I think they are your best players but they have to sacrifice too much of their own games to play together as trio and overall unit.

I would have loved to have seen you spread out the court and commit to an offense based around dribble penetration and pick and roll basketball with Robinson's quickness, finishing ability and shooting range causing havoc for opposing teams + with KJ and other playmakers there to create high percentage shots for him to limit the amount he's asked to create for himself (same for Ewing in Denver). I thought that type of a team would have been a nightmare to compete against.

Or if you went the other way and pursued the halfcourt offense, I would have liked to have seen much more size on the perimeter with stronger rebounding and defensive players in the backcourt. A PG who is more comfortable in a power game than a running game. Someone like Billups instead of KJ.

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Edit: I do really like your bench. I think it's one of the best benches around.

I think Xavier McDaniel, Mookie Blaylock and AL Horford are all high level bench players. I think Dale Davis is a very solid bench player (I had him listed as your backup C on my rankings). Those four guys helped your team's bench very highly on my rankings.

Hot Rod Williams and Cedric Ceballos supply strong additional depth. Kerr is a solid situational sub. The only guy wasn't wild about was Jim Jackson.

It's my concerns (starting wings + how well your top three guys work together as a trio) with your starters that hold you team back for me.

[StartOrien]

Here's Shaq's game log from 03-04, scroll to the bottom for his numbers against Detroit where he scored 34 (.813%), 29 (.500), 14 (.500) , 36 (.762), and 20 (.583) from the floor. He averaged 21.5 on .583% that season. He got 26.6 on .631%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01/gamelog/2004/

I think this kind of highlights the issue with these role players. The best defensive players can really only hold the best offensive players to their averages.

[Moranis]

As we have seen throughout the playoffs over the last few years the best teams are usually the best defensive teams thats because shot making comes and goes but defense is a mindset, and effort and my team has it.  

See I don't think is true.  Dallas was a middle of the road defensive team.  The two Laker teams were also middle of the road defensive teams.  Boston clearly was not.  Neither was San An in 07, but Miami was a middle of the road team in 06.  So 4 of the last 6 champions have been middle of the road defensive teams.  

Miami overall is a pretty strong defensive team and OKC certainly has some strong defenders, but as a team is middle of the pack.  

It certainly is fun to say that defense wins championships, but that doesn't really seem to be the case in any sports any more.  Offense wins.  

[StartOrien]

As we have seen throughout the playoffs over the last few years the best teams are usually the best defensive teams thats because shot making comes and goes but defense is a mindset, and effort and my team has it.  

See I don't think is true.  Dallas was a middle of the road defensive team.  The two Laker teams were also middle of the road defensive teams.  Boston clearly was not.  Neither was San An in 07, but Miami was a middle of the road team in 06.  So 4 of the last 6 champions have been middle of the road defensive teams.  

Miami overall is a pretty strong defensive team and OKC certainly has some strong defenders, but as a team is middle of the pack.  

It certainly is fun to say that defense wins championships, but that doesn't really seem to be the case in any sports any more.  Offense wins.  

co-freaking-sign. say it every year. best team wins. need a combination of offense and defense.

[Rondo2287]

As we have seen throughout the playoffs over the last few years the best teams are usually the best defensive teams thats because shot making comes and goes but defense is a mindset, and effort and my team has it.  

See I don't think is true.  Dallas was a middle of the road defensive team.  The two Laker teams were also middle of the road defensive teams.  Boston clearly was not.  Neither was San An in 07, but Miami was a middle of the road team in 06.  So 4 of the last 6 champions have been middle of the road defensive teams.  

Miami overall is a pretty strong defensive team and OKC certainly has some strong defenders, but as a team is middle of the pack.  

It certainly is fun to say that defense wins championships, but that doesn't really seem to be the case in any sports any more.  Offense wins.  

This is from 2010

• Of the 20 teams who have made the Finals in the last 10 seasons, 13 of them have been top-five defensive teams, while only eight have been top-five offensive teams."

• Of the 50 teams who have ranked in the top-five defensively over the last 10 seasons, only one (the 2001-02 Heat, who ranked fourth) has failed to make the playoffs. And 35 of the 50 have won at least one series.

• Of the 34 playoff upsets (series won by the team that didn't have home-court advantage) over the last 10 seasons, 12 have been pulled off by unbalanced defensive teams, while only five have been pulled off by unbalanced offensive teams.

• Over the last three postseasons, the better defensive team has won 34 of the 45 playoff series, while the better offensive team has won 26 of the 45.

• Over the last three postseasons, when two teams have met in the playoffs and one was better offensively while the other was better defensively, the better defensive team has won 17 of the 26 series.

• Of the 50 teams who have ranked in the top-five offensively over the last 10 seasons, six have failed to make the playoffs, including last season's Suns, who were the No. 1 offensive team in the league. Only 30 of the 50 have won at least one series..

The facts don't appear to back up your opinion

[Rondo2287]

That lakers team in 01 that ranked 23rd played much better defense in the postseason though, much like the 06 colts but it skews the total to make it closer than it really is.

[Fafnir]

The main thing I take away is that generally to win a title you're pretty good at both sides of the ball.

[Rondo2287]

The main thing I take away is that generally to win a title you're pretty good at both sides of the ball.

Or you have shaq

[Fafnir]

The main thing I take away is that generally to win a title you're pretty good at both sides of the ball.

Or you have shaq

Shaq's laziness and injury status was the only reason that Lakers ranked so poorly on defense. His attitude clearly spread during the regular season on that team. They were fortunate to snap out of the funk and "flip the switch".

Much like this year's OKC team they were clearly capable of better and showed it. Whether or not OKC can do the same is why I'm excited for tonight.

[Rondo2287]

The main thing I take away is that generally to win a title you're pretty good at both sides of the ball.

Or you have shaq

Shaq's laziness and injury status was the only reason that Lakers ranked so poorly on defense. His attitude clearly spread during the regular season on that team. They were fortunate to snap out of the funk and "flip the switch".

Much like this year's OKC team they were clearly capable of better and showed it.

I know, if you take out the shaq lead teams the favor is clearly on the side of defense.  Which I think speaks to the potentcy of Who's team and the importance of defense.  

Ya if you take out shaq's teams the average defensive ranking per team is 4.42

[Fafnir]

Ya if you take out shaq's teams the average defensive ranking per team is 4.42

If you take out all of Duncan's teams what does that do to your rankings? You can also just slide the data window to cut out the 00-01 Lakers if you want to try that fudging trick.

When you take the best offensive post player of an era out of your data it you distorts it heavily. Both by lessening your sample size and cherry picking. You can do the same by removing the best defensive big man of the era if you'd like.

[Rondo2287]

Ya if you take out shaq's teams the average defensive ranking per team is 4.42

If you take out all of Duncan's teams what does that do to your rankings? You can also just slide the data window to cut out the 00-01 Lakers if you want to try that fudging trick.

When you take the best offensive post player of an era out of your data it you distorts it heavily. Both by lessening your sample size and cherry picking. You can do the same by removing the best defensive big man of the era if you'd like.

I wasnt trying to Cherry Pick I just thought it was phenomenal how much Shaq's teams skew the data. 

[Roy H.]

The only guy wasn't wild about was Jim Jackson.

What's wrong with Jackson?  I really like that pick, and thought it addressed some of the concerns I had about Dons on the wing.