Have The Refs Ever Been Good?

[soap07]

Everyone has been killing the officiating in this series, other series, and every series in between.

We always see statements such as "The officiating has never been this bad," and allegations of bias, conspiracies, etc etc.

I'm curious - in the century old history of the NBA, has the officiating ever been any good? Because honestly, similar statements have been made for years. In the 90s in the Jordan era, in the 80s, etc etc...going back decades, those statements have existed.


Is the NBA such a poorly run sport that in the last century, it has never been able to have decent officiating? Or has it only been bad recently? Are there any referees in the world who could do the job competently? Has there ever been an era of competent officiating? Probably not, if you listen to the fans of particular era.

Are there other refs who can do a better job that the NBA chooses not to hire? Is it the rules?

[Eja117]

My memory of horrid NBA officiating starts with MJ's push off with the Kings getting screwed out of a title as a highlight.

Then they CHANGED THE RULES to make it even MORE difficult to defend guys like Lebron and D Wade. Because the league was apparently not wing dominated enough.

This is like when the NFL changed the rules to help Peyton Manning get a ring, because up till then contact against receivers was the order of the day and there was just no way to expect Peyton to get a ring going against Patriots defenses.

Leagues want outcomes. 

[LarBrd33]

No.  The officials have always been the way they have been.  Some good calls... some bad calls.  It's not malicious it's just human error. 

What's changed is... the internet.  That's all.  Had the internet been around even as recently as Jordan's day, we'd probably poke holes in every aspect of his game, post youtube videos of all the "questionable" calls, debate for hours about whether or not he had a secret gambling addiction, show paparazzi videos of him supposedly cheating on his wife or snubbing fans... there would be websites like idontwannabelikemike.com, etc.  The internet helps us collaborate on our hate so it seems worse than it actually is.  Nothing has changed.

I mean... probably if there were blogs back in the 60s there would probably be several conspiracy theories about Red Auerbach cheating or the refs being in his pocket.  It is what it is. 

[soap07]

Then they CHANGED THE RULES to make it even MORE difficult to defend guys like Lebron and D Wade. Because the league was apparently not wing dominated enough.

So do you feel that the quality of officiating is worse now? And while watching basketball in the past, that you walked away from games being less critical of the officiating before LeBron/Wade entered the league?

[Eja117]

No.  The officials have always been the way they have been.  Some good calls... some bad calls.  It's not malicious it's just human error.  

What's changed is... the internet.  That's all.  Had the internet been around even as recently as Jordan's day, we'd probably poke holes in every aspect of his game, post youtube videos of all the "questionable" calls, debate for hours about whether or not he had a secret gambling addiction, show paparazzi videos of him supposedly cheating on his wife or snubbing fans... there would be websites like idontwannabelikemike.com, etc.  The internet helps us collaborate on our hate so it seems worse than it actually is.  Nothing has changed.

I mean... probably if there were blogs back in the 60s there would probably be several conspiracy theories about Red Auerbach cheating or the refs being in his pocket.  It is what it is.   

Is that before he says he wants to win 7 championships or after?

[Eja117]

Then they CHANGED THE RULES to make it even MORE difficult to defend guys like Lebron and D Wade. Because the league was apparently not wing dominated enough.

So do you feel that the quality of officiating is worse now? And while watching basketball in the past, that you walked away from games being less critical of the officiating before LeBron/Wade entered the league?

YYYYYEEEEEESSSSS!!! God yes. A million times yes.

This is like saying Well is Congress and politics in America reeeaaalllyy more divisive now? Wasn't it always divisive and polarized?  YESSSS!! YES. We are saying it's worse. That is exactly what we are saying.

[LarBrd33]

No.  The officials have always been the way they have been.  Some good calls... some bad calls.  It's not malicious it's just human error.  

What's changed is... the internet.  That's all.  Had the internet been around even as recently as Jordan's day, we'd probably poke holes in every aspect of his game, post youtube videos of all the "questionable" calls, debate for hours about whether or not he had a secret gambling addiction, show paparazzi videos of him supposedly cheating on his wife or snubbing fans... there would be websites like idontwannabelikemike.com, etc.  The internet helps us collaborate on our hate so it seems worse than it actually is.  Nothing has changed.

I mean... probably if there were blogs back in the 60s there would probably be several conspiracy theories about Red Auerbach cheating or the refs being in his pocket.  It is what it is.   

Is that before he says he wants to win 7 championships or after?

Alternatively, if LeBron were living in a pre-internet world he'd probably be widely adored and beloved.  I'm sure some Celtic fans would watch on TV and still think something was fishy, but as a whole it wouldn't be nearly as loud.  We'd have nowhere to collectively complain together.

[Celtics4ever]

I don't think so.   The instant replays or seeing this guy untouched foul after foul really sour me on James.

I think the refs have always made mistakes.  I think the arrogance of the league has never been higher.

[Neurotic Guy]

The NBA actually is not a century old -- rather, around since 1946 -- only 65 years.

I can't say I got to see a ton of games as a kid, but I listened all the time -- starting late 1960's.  Needless to say, you can't see bad officiating through the radio and as a kid I probably wouldn't have been knowledgeable enough to notice anyway.  Additionally, when the C's were on TV in the 60's and 70's, TV replay, slo-mo, multiple angles were not nearly as sophisticated as now.  And, there was no ESPN or CSN or NESN to disect questionable calls ad nauseum.

That said, Johnny Most often thought the refs were against the C's.  But he was in the enviable position of having no one to question or double-check his opinions.

[Eja117]

No.  The officials have always been the way they have been.  Some good calls... some bad calls.  It's not malicious it's just human error.  

What's changed is... the internet.  That's all.  Had the internet been around even as recently as Jordan's day, we'd probably poke holes in every aspect of his game, post youtube videos of all the "questionable" calls, debate for hours about whether or not he had a secret gambling addiction, show paparazzi videos of him supposedly cheating on his wife or snubbing fans... there would be websites like idontwannabelikemike.com, etc.  The internet helps us collaborate on our hate so it seems worse than it actually is.  Nothing has changed.

I mean... probably if there were blogs back in the 60s there would probably be several conspiracy theories about Red Auerbach cheating or the refs being in his pocket.  It is what it is.   

Is that before he says he wants to win 7 championships or after?

Alternatively, if LeBron were living in a pre-internet world he'd probably be widely adored and beloved.  I'm sure some Celtic fans would watch on TV and still think something was fishy, but as a whole it wouldn't be nearly as loud.  We'd have nowhere to collectively complain together.

Right. Back in the good old days when all we had was round the clock espn, daily newspapers, and the radio Cleveland fans would have totally understood the Decision and everyone would have been hunky dorey with him taking his talents to South Beach with his buddies.    And everyone would have loved Brett Farve too.
This reminds me. Andy Griffith might be on

[Celtics18]

No.  The officials have always been the way they have been.  Some good calls... some bad calls.  It's not malicious it's just human error. 

What's changed is... the internet.  That's all.  Had the internet been around even as recently as Jordan's day, we'd probably poke holes in every aspect of his game, post youtube videos of all the "questionable" calls, debate for hours about whether or not he had a secret gambling addiction, show paparazzi videos of him supposedly cheating on his wife or snubbing fans... there would be websites like idontwannabelikemike.com, etc.  The internet helps us collaborate on our hate so it seems worse than it actually is.  Nothing has changed.

I mean... probably if there were blogs back in the 60s there would probably be several conspiracy theories about Red Auerbach cheating or the refs being in his pocket.  It is what it is. 

Nice point about the internet.  Tommy Point.

[Celtics4ever]

Red had trouble with the refs and oft argued with them though...

[Eja117]

I'm not sure that just because the refs have never been good that means they're actually good or that they're good now. 

If they've never been good, why should they be good now?  They officiate horridly.

[LarBrd33]

Red had trouble with the refs and oft argued with them though...

Well there you go.  Refs have always been bad. 

[LarBrd33]

No.  The officials have always been the way they have been.  Some good calls... some bad calls.  It's not malicious it's just human error.  

What's changed is... the internet.  That's all.  Had the internet been around even as recently as Jordan's day, we'd probably poke holes in every aspect of his game, post youtube videos of all the "questionable" calls, debate for hours about whether or not he had a secret gambling addiction, show paparazzi videos of him supposedly cheating on his wife or snubbing fans... there would be websites like idontwannabelikemike.com, etc.  The internet helps us collaborate on our hate so it seems worse than it actually is.  Nothing has changed.

I mean... probably if there were blogs back in the 60s there would probably be several conspiracy theories about Red Auerbach cheating or the refs being in his pocket.  It is what it is.  

Is that before he says he wants to win 7 championships or after?

Alternatively, if LeBron were living in a pre-internet world he'd probably be widely adored and beloved.  I'm sure some Celtic fans would watch on TV and still think something was fishy, but as a whole it wouldn't be nearly as loud.  We'd have nowhere to collectively complain together.

Right. Back in the good old days when all we had was round the clock espn, daily newspapers, and the radio Cleveland fans would have totally understood the Decision and everyone would have been hunky dorey with him taking his talents to South Beach with his buddies.    And everyone would have loved Brett Farve too.
This reminds me. Andy Griffith might be on

you say that... but Shaq bailing on Orlando... Chris Webber bailing on Golden State after one year... these kind of "decisions" would have been infinitely more scrutinized if they happened in today's Internet world.   Sorry.  Just true.

Would Cavs fans be upset?  Sure.  But we wouldn't have had a global internet twitter/blogosphere/multi-media/forum/social network to form our mob mentality perception of him as a snake.