Author Topic: I'm glad we let Perk go  (Read 19706 times)

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Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2012, 11:36:35 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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love Perk and was very sorry to see him go but I'm just coming around to thinking the deal may actually work out for the C's in the long run (definitely not short term).

He's getting paid more than he's worth at this point.  If OKC actually amnestied him, I'd welcome him back for about 1/2 of what he's making now after next year (when the amnesty is anticipated).

Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2012, 11:49:16 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Perk probably does have a bad matchup against SA but the thing that stands out to me the most is how inept he is on offense. He couldn't even post up and finish against Boris Diaw! They were throwing him perfect passes downlow and he either traveled or came up empty every single time. I have never seen a big man travel nearly every time he receives the ball down low like Perk does.

To be fair to Perk, he's not exactly playing with Magic Johnson, either :).

I love Russell Westbrook as a player, but he isn't exactly the best distributor in the game.

I'd bet that a certain Green-clad PG from the East could get Perk some GOOD looks around the basket.......hmmmmmm

Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2012, 11:52:33 AM »

Offline Spicoli

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Perk probably does have a bad matchup against SA but the thing that stands out to me the most is how inept he is on offense. He couldn't even post up and finish against Boris Diaw! They were throwing him perfect passes downlow and he either traveled or came up empty every single time. I have never seen a big man travel nearly every time he receives the ball down low like Perk does.

To be fair to Perk, he's not exactly playing with Magic Johnson, either :).

I love Russell Westbrook as a player, but he isn't exactly the best distributor in the game.

I'd bet that a certain Green-clad PG from the East could get Perk some GOOD looks around the basket.......hmmmmmm

I have a feeling that even if Rondo dropped the perfect pass into Perks lap he would travel anyway lol

Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2012, 11:52:57 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Both teams lost out on this trade....

Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2012, 11:54:53 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I still don't think trading Perk last season was the right move.  If they'd traded him this off-season as part of a sign-and-trade, I could have lived with it (especially because we could have probably used the resulting trade exception to S&T for David West).  However, blowing up the team when they were at the top of the conference last year was a poor decision.

Also, I think Perk would look a lot better if he was playing in our system.  I understand those who say he is overpaid, but we could definitely use him.


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Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #50 on: May 30, 2012, 11:58:37 AM »

Offline mctyson

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As a longtime Perkins supporter, I'm quite frankly shocked, to say the least, at some of the Perk comments here.

With that being said, Perk's perfect storm would be if he had KG to play alongsides, IMO.

He is STILL a top 5-Defensive Center in the game.

I'm betting that he'd still average 10 pts, 9-10 rebs if he still played alongside KG.

But Kendrick Perkins is just NOT as bad as some here are stating.

I have stated on here numerous times that all the advanced metrics place Perkins squarely on the bottom of the NBA totem pole as far as Centers are concerned.  Now, many people don't believe those numbers, or say that they don't take into effect what a player like Perkins is (supposedly) good at: man defense, setting picks, intimidation, being a teammate...

But the Celtics evaluate players using those statistics, like the Red Sox use advanced metrics for their player assessments.  The Celtics were one of the first franchises to really value these analyses for player evaluation.

There is no doubt in my mind that Danny and his staff concluded, using their deep knowledge of everything that is Perkins' game, that he is really not that good of an NBA center.  In my opinion they are correct, and the numbers back them up.  

Factor in that Danny had to believe this year was KG's last year with the Celtics - even if you believe Perkins is a good player next to KG, that combo would only be viable for one more year and Perkins was going to get a multi-year deal somewhere.  Then factor in that there was a good chance we didn't have a season at all this year due to the lockup, and add into it the uncertainty about the CBA and whether sign-and-trades would even be allowed anymore...and you see exactly why Danny made the move that he did.  It was the right move to make, and although Jeff Green hasn't panned out yet, we still have ample time to evaluate our end of the deal.

OKC, on the other hand, knows exactly what they got.  I have stated many times here that Perkins' contract will be amnestied this year.  The only reason it would not be terminated is if OKC doesn't really benefit cap-wise from the move.  But I cannot imagine that Sam Presti is going to go forward and pay Perkins the $7-$8M he is owed next year while he is putting up numbers that rank at the very bottom of the league for center productivity.

I understood the trade for Perkins from OKC's standpoint.  They needed a defensive center with a big body for what they perceived their roadblock to the Finals to be:  the Gasol/Bynum combo on the Lakers.  That will not be necessary going forward into 2013 and beyond.  Combine that with Perkins' horrendous output on the offensive end of the floor and he becomes and total financial liability playing on a reconstructed knee.

So in short, I was incredibly supportive of the trade last year, am still incredibly supportive of the trade, and I feel bad for Perkins because he may not receive the bulk of the $36M he was extended for by OKC.


Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #51 on: May 30, 2012, 12:00:15 PM »

Offline mctyson

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I still don't think trading Perk last season was the right move.  If they'd traded him this off-season as part of a sign-and-trade

As I mentioned in my other post, there was no guarantee that sign-and-trades were even going to be allowed as part of the new CBA.  That forced Danny's hand.  That is why he is a great GM and I am glad he runs our team.

Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2012, 12:01:52 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I feel bad for Perkins because he may not receive the bulk of the $36M he was extended for by OKC.

Amnestied players get paid their full contract, so don't feel too badly for him.


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Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2012, 12:04:30 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Perk probably does have a bad matchup against SA but the thing that stands out to me the most is how inept he is on offense. He couldn't even post up and finish against Boris Diaw! They were throwing him perfect passes downlow and he either traveled or came up empty every single time. I have never seen a big man travel nearly every time he receives the ball down low like Perk does.

To be fair to Perk, he's not exactly playing with Magic Johnson, either :).

I love Russell Westbrook as a player, but he isn't exactly the best distributor in the game.

I'd bet that a certain Green-clad PG from the East could get Perk some GOOD looks around the basket.......hmmmmmm

I have a feeling that even if Rondo dropped the perfect pass into Perks lap he would travel anyway lol

To be fair to Perk....how many times did you see THAT happen when he was in BOS?

Sure Perk doesn't have the best hands, but when you are playing with a PG that is simply not known as a great passer that exacerbates things.

As Roy stated in his second para above - if Perk was playing IN BOS - he'd look a lot better...imagine KG AND Rondo looking for him down low...imagine Paul giving him his passes..even Ray would give him good looks.

Perfect example - look at this famous clip from Ray Allen as he obliterates LA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RciLe9SUqVM

Now, how many of those Ray Allen bombs were set by a pick from Perk? At least two?

Yep...OKC/Perk is getting exposed right now, but Perk would look better in Green again if BOS could somehow swing that affordably.

Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2012, 12:09:57 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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god our offense would be even worse with Perk this year. Can you imagine a lineup this year with Rondo, a hurt Ray and Perk in there ? We would be lucky to score 70 points .

Perk is soo overrated by some people on here. Yes he is a very good one on one low post defender, he sucks at everything else.
-He can't score
-can't finish,
-can't shoot
-can't post up
- can't shoot ft's
-isn't very good covering the pick and roll
-grabs less than 5 rebs a game .

4 points 3 rebounds a game from a nearly 7 ft center?  I know ,I know you can't teach intangibles ....

Oh yea by the way Posey was on the court for the biggest minutes in the biggest games in 2008 with KG playing center, but that's ok ,we can rewrite history for our beloved perk
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 12:18:23 PM by rondohondo »

Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2012, 12:16:18 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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As a longtime Perkins supporter, I'm quite frankly shocked, to say the least, at some of the Perk comments here.

With that being said, Perk's perfect storm would be if he had KG to play alongsides, IMO.

He is STILL a top 5-Defensive Center in the game.

I'm betting that he'd still average 10 pts, 9-10 rebs if he still played alongside KG.

But Kendrick Perkins is just NOT as bad as some here are stating.

I have stated on here numerous times that all the advanced metrics place Perkins squarely on the bottom of the NBA totem pole as far as Centers are concerned.  Now, many people don't believe those numbers, or say that they don't take into effect what a player like Perkins is (supposedly) good at: man defense, setting picks, intimidation, being a teammate...

But the Celtics evaluate players using those statistics, like the Red Sox use advanced metrics for their player assessments.  The Celtics were one of the first franchises to really value these analyses for player evaluation.

There is no doubt in my mind that Danny and his staff concluded, using their deep knowledge of everything that is Perkins' game, that he is really not that good of an NBA center.  In my opinion they are correct, and the numbers back them up.  

Factor in that Danny had to believe this year was KG's last year with the Celtics - even if you believe Perkins is a good player next to KG, that combo would only be viable for one more year and Perkins was going to get a multi-year deal somewhere.  Then factor in that there was a good chance we didn't have a season at all this year due to the lockup, and add into it the uncertainty about the CBA and whether sign-and-trades would even be allowed anymore...and you see exactly why Danny made the move that he did.  It was the right move to make, and although Jeff Green hasn't panned out yet, we still have ample time to evaluate our end of the deal.

OKC, on the other hand, knows exactly what they got.  I have stated many times here that Perkins' contract will be amnestied this year.  The only reason it would not be terminated is if OKC doesn't really benefit cap-wise from the move.  But I cannot imagine that Sam Presti is going to go forward and pay Perkins the $7-$8M he is owed next year while he is putting up numbers that rank at the very bottom of the league for center productivity.

I understood the trade for Perkins from OKC's standpoint.  They needed a defensive center with a big body for what they perceived their roadblock to the Finals to be:  the Gasol/Bynum combo on the Lakers.  That will not be necessary going forward into 2013 and beyond.  Combine that with Perkins' horrendous output on the offensive end of the floor and he becomes and total financial liability playing on a reconstructed knee.

So in short, I was incredibly supportive of the trade last year, am still incredibly supportive of the trade, and I feel bad for Perkins because he may not receive the bulk of the $36M he was extended for by OKC.



Could you please post a link to these "advanced metrics"...?

SynergySports.com has Perkins listed as 80th for Defense...in contrast, Tim Duncan was listed 57th....shockingly, Joakim Noah (whom I do love as a player) was listed as 240th??

But Joakin Noah(again, whom I do love as a player) got some votes for the all NBA defensive teams.

Metrics can be misleading...they are ultimately controlled/made by humans, and we all know that us humans make mistakes, and can have agendas, right?

And there is still, unfortunately, no metric out there that I am aware of that measures heart, guile, and toughness.

Perk would rank up there if there were such a thing.

Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #56 on: May 30, 2012, 12:36:21 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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god our offense would be even worse with Perk this year. Can you imagine a lineup this year with Rondo, a hurt Ray and Perk in there ? We would be lucky to score 70 points .

Perk is soo overrated by some people on here. Yes he is a very good one on one low post defender, he sucks at everything else.
-He can't score
-can't finish,
-can't shoot
-can't post up
- can't shoot ft's
-isn't very good covering the pick and roll
-grabs less than 5 rebs a game .

4 points 3 rebounds a game from a nearly 7 ft center?  I know ,I know you can't teach intangibles ....

Oh yea by the way Posey was on the court for the biggest minutes in the biggest games in 2008 with KG playing center, but that's ok ,we can rewrite history for our beloved perk

So...with that in mind, do you think BOS would've won the title in 07-08 if Perk wasn't there?

Do you honestly see a lineup of KG-Posey-Paul-Ray-Rondo getting past ATL (who took us to 7 games)...CLE (again - 7 games)..and DET?

What about that game in LA that year where Perk sat out? The game right after our miraculous comeback win in LA? Didn't we lose that game and afterwards KG himself stated that we could've used Perk?

Perk isn't a useless bag of skin like some of us here believe, lol.......

Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #57 on: May 30, 2012, 12:47:58 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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god our offense would be even worse with Perk this year. Can you imagine a lineup this year with Rondo, a hurt Ray and Perk in there ? We would be lucky to score 70 points .

Perk is soo overrated by some people on here. Yes he is a very good one on one low post defender, he sucks at everything else.
-He can't score
-can't finish,
-can't shoot
-can't post up
- can't shoot ft's
-isn't very good covering the pick and roll
-grabs less than 5 rebs a game .

4 points 3 rebounds a game from a nearly 7 ft center?  I know ,I know you can't teach intangibles ....

Oh yea by the way Posey was on the court for the biggest minutes in the biggest games in 2008 with KG playing center, but that's ok ,we can rewrite history for our beloved perk

So...with that in mind, do you think BOS would've won the title in 07-08 if Perk wasn't there?

Do you honestly see a lineup of KG-Posey-Paul-Ray-Rondo getting past ATL (who took us to 7 games)...CLE (again - 7 games)..and DET?

What about that game in LA that year where Perk sat out? The game right after our miraculosu comeback? Didn't we lose that game and afterwards KG himself stated that we could've used Perk?

Perk isn't a useless bag of skin like some of us here believe, lol.......
Actually yes. A better question would be would the C's have won a championship without PJ Brown, who hit the biggest shot of the playoffs in game 7 against Cleveland ? PJ Brown was actually more valuable than Perk , we wouldn't have won it without that shot .

Perk guarded Ben Wallace in the Detroit series , it wasn't like he was shutting down a prime Shaq on our way to the championship that year , Posey and PJ Brown were more important that season .

If you replace Perk with a Nazr Muhammed type that year we still would have won

Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #58 on: May 30, 2012, 12:50:54 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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I remember the debates soon after "The Trade" and many that favored the trade assumed that time would tell.  Well time has told and the only reason that this trade is not going down as a steal by Boston is that Green had his heart problems.

Perk is not nearly as good as OKC thought.  I know that is speculation because I can't know that but I think it is a fair assumption.  DA gauged Perk's talent accurately, Presti didn't.  The main thing a GM is supposed to do is gauge talent.  In terms of Green, no one could have known about the heart problem.  Krystic going to Russia and the loss in value of the pick were both calculated risks that DA made and lost.

So best case we could have had Green and Krystic this year and a high pick someday.  Worst case (which is pretty much how it ended up) we get Green next year probably and a not so hot pick.  Oh and don't forget, we saved Nate's salary for 1.5 years.

Perk would probably be a back-up center on our team this year and if he did "start", he would be more ceremonial because he would still have a lesser role than Bass.  As a back-up yeah, he would probably be better than Steisma or Hollins.

I just don't see how you can criticize DA for this trade.

Re: I'm glad we let Perk go
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2012, 12:50:58 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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god our offense would be even worse with Perk this year. Can you imagine a lineup this year with Rondo, a hurt Ray and Perk in there ? We would be lucky to score 70 points .

Perk is soo overrated by some people on here. Yes he is a very good one on one low post defender, he sucks at everything else.
-He can't score
-can't finish,
-can't shoot
-can't post up
- can't shoot ft's
-isn't very good covering the pick and roll
-grabs less than 5 rebs a game .

4 points 3 rebounds a game from a nearly 7 ft center?  I know ,I know you can't teach intangibles ....

Oh yea by the way Posey was on the court for the biggest minutes in the biggest games in 2008 with KG playing center, but that's ok ,we can rewrite history for our beloved perk

So...with that in mind, do you think BOS would've won the title in 07-08 if Perk wasn't there?

Do you honestly see a lineup of KG-Posey-Paul-Ray-Rondo getting past ATL (who took us to 7 games)...CLE (again - 7 games)..and DET?

What about that game in LA that year where Perk sat out? The game right after our miraculosu comeback? Didn't we lose that game and afterwards KG himself stated that we could've used Perk?

Perk isn't a useless bag of skin like some of us here believe, lol.......
Actually yes. A better question would be would the C's have won a championship without PJ Brown, who hit the biggest shot of the playoffs in game 7 against Cleveland ? PJ Brown was actually more valuable than Perk , we wouldn't have won it without that shot .

Perk guarded Ben Wallace in the Detroit series , it wasn't like he was shutting down a prime Shaq on our way to the championship that year , Posey and PJ Brown were more important that season .

If you replace Perk with a Nazr Muhammed type that year we still would have won

But I bet Nazr would've been destroyed by Dwight or Bynum......and even during that 09-10 run, he kept CLE Shaq in check.

And if PJ was that valuable (I do love the guy as a player)....wouldn't he've started?