Amazing Stat, Rondo and PP shoot zero FT's in game 1, Wade + Lebron 2 fouls

[rondohondo]

I can accept this post here.  The refs weren't great but they were at most the 4th most prominent reasons for the loss. Let's fix the top 3.  Blaming the refs is for losers.  Notice that Belichick never blames the refs, even after the Denver playoff game years back.

Sorry, are you playing in the games? What are you talking about? You don't think Lebron and Wade get special treatment? Or you just think nobody is allowed to be p---ed about it without your say so.

Are you playing in the games?  You don't think Boston has ever gotten special treatment?  I remind everyone that we started the BIG 3 thing, had the most hyped team in the league in 08, and won 17 titles.  If the league is fixed, it has historically been fixed in our favor.  We have the most titles.

I'm not playing which is why I can bring up the refs if I want. I don't know if they got special treatment, I'm talking about now. You think that makes it okay if Boston got special treatment at some point? Anyway you said the league isn't fixed so I asked you if you don't think Lebron and Wade get special treatment which you didn't answer.

Every star in NBA history since George Mikan has received special treatment.  GET OVER IT.

That doesn't make the games scripted, make me whine after every game, or make me say I want to stop watching the NBA.  If you want to stop, then stop.  Free country.  

The Celtics are part of the NBA like 29 other teams.  If you hate the NBA, don't post on an NBA forum.  That is trolling.

thats the thing, I love the game of basketball and want to watch it for it's beauty, grace, athleticism and competitiveness . When you make these ridiculous techs, call a foul anytime Lebron and Wade drive , and stop play every 2 seconds to call another foul it makes the game very ugly to watch

if you think this is the way bball is meant to be played and is great to watch then I don't know what to say. Even if the c's won last night I would have brought up the officials .

And then on top of it all they have stupid make up calls which just add to the aful officiating . Ok I made one bad call on one end so I have to make an equally bad call on the other end to even it out. So lets stop the complete flow of the game and just make up fouls when it's the other teams turn to get a call.

If thats not scripted ( or whatever you want to call it ) then I don't know what is ?

[celtsfan84]

I can accept this post here.  The refs weren't great but they were at most the 4th most prominent reasons for the loss. Let's fix the top 3.  Blaming the refs is for losers.  Notice that Belichick never blames the refs, even after the Denver playoff game years back.

Sorry, are you playing in the games? What are you talking about? You don't think Lebron and Wade get special treatment? Or you just think nobody is allowed to be p---ed about it without your say so.

Are you playing in the games?  You don't think Boston has ever gotten special treatment?  I remind everyone that we started the BIG 3 thing, had the most hyped team in the league in 08, and won 17 titles.  If the league is fixed, it has historically been fixed in our favor.  We have the most titles.

I'm not playing which is why I can bring up the refs if I want. I don't know if they got special treatment, I'm talking about now. You think that makes it okay if Boston got special treatment at some point? Anyway you said the league isn't fixed so I asked you if you don't think Lebron and Wade get special treatment which you didn't answer.

Every star in NBA history since George Mikan has received special treatment.  GET OVER IT.

That doesn't make the games scripted, make me whine after every game, or make me say I want to stop watching the NBA.  If you want to stop, then stop.  Free country.  

The Celtics are part of the NBA like 29 other teams.  If you hate the NBA, don't post on an NBA forum.  That is trolling.

Ok pal, whatever you say. Enjoy your power trip.

Enjoy your crying towel.  I choose to hope we play better in Game 2 instead of making excuses in a game where we were outplayed.  You need 4 wins to win a series.  Move on.

[celtsfan84]

If you think the NBA is scripted and no longer want to watch the games, feel free. Nobody is forcing you.

If you think officiating was the reason the Celtics lost, then good for you.  You're wrong, but good for you.

Did you know that we shot over twice as many free throws in Game 5 against a younger and more athletic 76ers team?  Did you know that their blogs complained about that game being scripted and fixed to favor the team with more star power?  Did you know there are 28 NBA teams other than the Celtics and HEAT?

What you fail to grasp is the concept of "flow" in an NBA game. To those of us who are older than 14 it's a pretty common topic in any Basketball game.

Once again.. If you didn't see the refs mess with the "flow" of this game in a negative fashion for the Celtics then you are new to the game of basketball and I suggest you hold your tongue.

I am well older than 14 and older than you.  Makign excuses after a loss is a loser's chore unless you played perfectly.  The Celtics didn't play perfectly.

You think it is mere coincidence that we struggled to score in the last series too? And the one before that.  Our "flow" has sucked for 14 straight playoff games now.  I guess all were due to the officials.   

If all of your points are nonsense insults, I suggest you stop posting.  It is pointless and rude.

I ask again, was our 08 Title team scripted and fixed?  Or are only the games we lose scripted?

I'm not talking about any other game besides last night which is the topic at hand. In basketball "momentum" say it with me.. M-O-M-E-N-T-U-M is extremely important and the key to any game. If you didn't see the refs last night kill what we had of it then your a noob to this sport. It's really sad there are such uneducated fans of this team. Watch some more ball read a few books and grow some hair on your chest before you decide to post again. You clearly have a lot to learn about this sport and how it's idealy played and should be referee'd. Go blog on a Miami site. You'd fit right in.

We also had our best scoring quarter of the entire postseason in last night's game.  Your excuse making is quite impressive.  And I'm older than you and have seen much more basketball than you.

I ask again, was our 08 NBA Title team fixed? Or the Philadelphia series?

I think you are taking things way to black and white. It is not about "fixing" a game, as in scripting it to a conclusion. It is about helping a particular team. I remember distinctly in 2008 the awful officiating in more than one series - and not just the  Celtics series. The 2008 Celtics were a much better team, so their opponents would have needed much more help. As with any process, things improve over time. Meaning: the ability for refs to control the flow gets better, presumably more subtle.

I understand why you would say something like "blaming the refs is for losers." I think it is a lame thing to do if you say the ONLY reason a team lost was because of officiating. As much as I 100% believe the officials are bias and the league has a vested interest in getting super stars into the finals, I also believe a great team can overcome this bias. Boston is not a great team, not anymore. The fact they are in the finals is amazing given their situation and losing to the Heat is almost inevitable without any assistance from the refs. It is not about "we lost to the Heat because of the officials" - I would agree with you that is a stupid and childish comment.

But, and this is important, when the officials make it clear on the floor that the Celtics will not be allowed to play defense inside coupled with not being able to drive inside without getting fouled in the first half...it DOES change the game. It turns the plan into jump shooting. If Boston had an amazing jump shooting night, they would have won...but that is the "subtlety" of the bias. The refs made it very, very hard for the Celtics to pull off an upset last night. Whether they lost by 30 or 3, whether it was tied at the half or Miami was already well on their way to victory doesn't matter - the refs were involved in controlling the flow for one team positively and for another negatively.

As I said elsewhere, there will be a game this series (probably game 3) where Boston is the recipient of the refs love. I hope all the people who are bashing the refs (me included) will admit the bias there too. For me, it is not that the Heat got help and the poor old Celtics lost...it is that anyone gets help.

The NBA has lost integrity, more and more each season. It is silly to conclude that because they NBA is how it is now (refs helping) that means it is how it always was. Maybe it was, but I do not recall seeing obvious bias, whether Boston was in the game or two totally different teams. Bad calls happen, refs are human.

I understand both sides of this argument and I am sensitive to both sides. So let me conclude with what I think most people are saying:

1. Boston's play was a huge part of the loss
2. The officials were biased, not calling the game fairly on both sides.
3. The final totals of fouls is meaningless since most of the fouls on Miami were whistled when it no longer mattered. It is very possible this was intentional to "disguise" the bias.
4. Lebron and Wade receive super star calls and have many of their indiscretions (fouls other teams are whistled for and obvious travels, ball carrying, etc..) ignored.
5. In a game where Ray is whistled for saying "No!" and turning away, how is Lebron taunting KG not whistled? I agree what Lebron did should NOT have been whistled in a normal game, but how - in THIS game - is that not a tech?
6. Because the NBA appears to be so corrupt, many people are somewhere between frustrated and just "done."

I appreciate your well-balanced and thoughtful post.  I think discussion between adults who disagree is healthy when it is intelligent discourse.

But I have to ask - regarding point 3, our brst scoring quarter was in Quarter 2.  The foul calls were even in Quarter 3.  Wasn't Quarter 3 when we lost the game?

[FLCeltsFan]

Not mentioning personal fouls, that argument has been batted back and forth and could go either way.

 But the techs were ridiculous and called one sided.  I was so incensed when the ref stood there and watched LeBron taunt KG and laugh at him and didn't call a technical on him.  That SHOULD have been a technical.  Taunting is now and has been a reason for giving a T.  LeBron was clearly taunting but no call.   They were so quick to call T's on every little thing for the Celtics.  I saw Joel Anthony have a more emphatic reaction to a foul, going right at the ref, than Ray had when they called the T on him and they didn't call a tech on Anthony. 

Doris Burke was on the radio this morning and said she was completely dumbfounded over the tech they called on Doc.  She was sitting right down from him and said he wasn't riding the ref and he didn't say anything that could have merited a T.  She agreed with Doc that it was one of the worst she has seen.   

 There's no way you can say that there was any kind of consistency in the way they called those technicals. 

[celtsfan84]

Not mentioning personal fouls, that argument has been batted back and forth and could go either way.

 But the techs were ridiculous and called one sided.  I was so incensed when the ref stood there and watched LeBron taunt KG and laugh at him and didn't call a technical on him.  That SHOULD have been a technical.  Taunting is now and has been a reason for giving a T.  LeBron was clearly taunting but no call.   They were so quick to call T's on every little thing for the Celtics.  I saw Joel Anthony have a more emphatic reaction to a foul, going right at the ref, than Ray had when they called the T on him and they didn't call a tech on Anthony. 

Doris Burke was on the radio this morning and said she was completely dumbfounded over the tech they called on Doc.  She was sitting right down from him and said he wasn't riding the ref and he didn't say anything that could have merited a T.  She agreed with Doc that it was one of the worst she has seen.   

 There's no way you can say that there was any kind of consistency in the way they called those technicals. 

I agree with this too.  The technicals were bad.  But they happened in the 1st Quarter, our best quarter was the 2nd Quarter.  We were badly outplayed in the 3rd and 4th.  The timing doesn't jive to say it broke our momentum.  Our flow was at its best in the 2nd Quarter, immediately after the bad technicals.

[CelticHooligan3]

The nba: Where brainwashing happens. Stern wants it that way.

The refs have been so bad people now accept it and go by stats in the box score not by when fouls were called just based on how many total are called. Their are alot of factors the box score does not show and has already been well documented by what is termed as 'whining' incorrectly by some.

When did I say that?  Every event in life is biased.  For instance, young students prefer more attractive teachers.  So regardless of teaching skill, the more attractive teachers evoke a better response.  Bias.  I still attended school.

There is a different between a bias towards star players and an event being scripted.  Please look up definitions for each word.  Every event in life has some bias.  Life isn't fair.  GET OVER IT.

Holier than thou much? Your now blessing us all with your life lessons? Too funny man. Always gotta be one right? I wonder if you talk down to your peers or spouse this way.

My guess is if they had to constantly listen to your nonsensical babble you have neither. Or a very hard time holding onto them. I for one don't come on here for you to grace me with your all around knowledge of life. I'm getting the sense others feel the same.

Go be a motivational speaker to a bunch of sheep if you want. I hear there's a vacancy in Waco Texas. You'd fit right in. But please don't talk down to this entire blog as if we know nothing of what we saw last night.

[garz]

Enjoy your crying towel.  I choose to hope we play better in Game 2 instead of making excuses in a game where we were outplayed.  You need 4 wins to win a series.  Move on.

Pfft. I didn't even say anything about the game. You don't listen to people, you don't get it, and I don't care.

[celtsfan84]

The nba: Where brainwashing happens. Stern wants it that way.

The refs have been so bad people now accept it and go by stats in the box score not by when fouls were called just based on how many total are called. Their are alot of factors the box score does not show and has already been well documented by what is termed as 'whining' incorrectly by some.

When did I say that?  Every event in life is biased.  For instance, young students prefer more attractive teachers.  So regardless of teaching skill, the more attractive teachers evoke a better response.  Bias.  I still attended school.

There is a different between a bias towards star players and an event being scripted.  Please look up definitions for each word.  Every event in life has some bias.  Life isn't fair.  GET OVER IT.

Holier than thou much? Your now blessing us all with your life lessons? Too funny man. Always gotta be one right? I wonder if you talk down to your peers or spouse this way.

My guess is if they had to constantly listen to your nonsensical babble you have neither. Or a very hard time holding onto them. I for one don't come on here for you to grace me with your all around knowledge of life. I'm getting the sense others feel the same.

Go be a motivational speaker to a bunch of sheep if you want. I hear there's a vacancy in Waco Texas. You'd fit right in. But please don't talk down to this entire blog as if we know nothing of what we saw last night.

Funny, but you've been the one talking down to me this whole time.  Holier than thou much?  Read over all of your posts about me and realize how childish you sound.

[tgreanier]

If you think the NBA is scripted and no longer want to watch the games, feel free. Nobody is forcing you.

If you think officiating was the reason the Celtics lost, then good for you.  You're wrong, but good for you.

Did you know that we shot over twice as many free throws in Game 5 against a younger and more athletic 76ers team?  Did you know that their blogs complained about that game being scripted and fixed to favor the team with more star power?  Did you know there are 28 NBA teams other than the Celtics and HEAT?

What you fail to grasp is the concept of "flow" in an NBA game. To those of us who are older than 14 it's a pretty common topic in any Basketball game.

Once again.. If you didn't see the refs mess with the "flow" of this game in a negative fashion for the Celtics then you are new to the game of basketball and I suggest you hold your tongue.

I am well older than 14 and older than you.  Makign excuses after a loss is a loser's chore unless you played perfectly.  The Celtics didn't play perfectly.

You think it is mere coincidence that we struggled to score in the last series too? And the one before that.  Our "flow" has sucked for 14 straight playoff games now.  I guess all were due to the officials.  

If all of your points are nonsense insults, I suggest you stop posting.  It is pointless and rude.

I ask again, was our 08 Title team scripted and fixed?  Or are only the games we lose scripted?

I'm not talking about any other game besides last night which is the topic at hand. In basketball "momentum" say it with me.. M-O-M-E-N-T-U-M is extremely important and the key to any game. If you didn't see the refs last night kill what we had of it then your a noob to this sport. It's really sad there are such uneducated fans of this team. Watch some more ball read a few books and grow some hair on your chest before you decide to post again. You clearly have a lot to learn about this sport and how it's idealy played and should be referee'd. Go blog on a Miami site. You'd fit right in.

We also had our best scoring quarter of the entire postseason in last night's game.  Your excuse making is quite impressive.  And I'm older than you and have seen much more basketball than you.

I ask again, was our 08 NBA Title team fixed? Or the Philadelphia series?

I think you are taking things way to black and white. It is not about "fixing" a game, as in scripting it to a conclusion. It is about helping a particular team. I remember distinctly in 2008 the awful officiating in more than one series - and not just the  Celtics series. The 2008 Celtics were a much better team, so their opponents would have needed much more help. As with any process, things improve over time. Meaning: the ability for refs to control the flow gets better, presumably more subtle.

I understand why you would say something like "blaming the refs is for losers." I think it is a lame thing to do if you say the ONLY reason a team lost was because of officiating. As much as I 100% believe the officials are bias and the league has a vested interest in getting super stars into the finals, I also believe a great team can overcome this bias. Boston is not a great team, not anymore. The fact they are in the finals is amazing given their situation and losing to the Heat is almost inevitable without any assistance from the refs. It is not about "we lost to the Heat because of the officials" - I would agree with you that is a stupid and childish comment.

But, and this is important, when the officials make it clear on the floor that the Celtics will not be allowed to play defense inside coupled with not being able to drive inside without getting fouled in the first half...it DOES change the game. It turns the plan into jump shooting. If Boston had an amazing jump shooting night, they would have won...but that is the "subtlety" of the bias. The refs made it very, very hard for the Celtics to pull off an upset last night. Whether they lost by 30 or 3, whether it was tied at the half or Miami was already well on their way to victory doesn't matter - the refs were involved in controlling the flow for one team positively and for another negatively.

As I said elsewhere, there will be a game this series (probably game 3) where Boston is the recipient of the refs love. I hope all the people who are bashing the refs (me included) will admit the bias there too. For me, it is not that the Heat got help and the poor old Celtics lost...it is that anyone gets help.

The NBA has lost integrity, more and more each season. It is silly to conclude that because they NBA is how it is now (refs helping) that means it is how it always was. Maybe it was, but I do not recall seeing obvious bias, whether Boston was in the game or two totally different teams. Bad calls happen, refs are human.

I understand both sides of this argument and I am sensitive to both sides. So let me conclude with what I think most people are saying:

1. Boston's play was a huge part of the loss
2. The officials were biased, not calling the game fairly on both sides.
3. The final totals of fouls is meaningless since most of the fouls on Miami were whistled when it no longer mattered. It is very possible this was intentional to "disguise" the bias.
4. Lebron and Wade receive super star calls and have many of their indiscretions (fouls other teams are whistled for and obvious travels, ball carrying, etc..) ignored.
5. In a game where Ray is whistled for saying "No!" and turning away, how is Lebron taunting KG not whistled? I agree what Lebron did should NOT have been whistled in a normal game, but how - in THIS game - is that not a tech?
6. Because the NBA appears to be so corrupt, many people are somewhere between frustrated and just "done."

I appreciate your well-balanced and thoughtful post.  I think discussion between adults who disagree is healthy when it is intelligent discourse.

But I have to ask - regarding point 3, our brst scoring quarter was in Quarter 2.  The foul calls were even in Quarter 3.  Wasn't Quarter 3 when we lost the game?

Its a good question. I can only answer with what I thought last night. "Wow, the Celtics have some heart. Even with the crap officiating, they are showing some life here." This should not be interpreted as me saying the Celtics are "pure" and every other team is dirty. It is just an example of what I mean by the officials only having "so much control." My belief after that rousing 2nd quarter and a tie game was that the officials would make [dang]ed sure that would not stick, no matter how the Celtics played.

Now, the Celtics played like crap coming into the third and with or without the refs help, they were owned. That is just life being a fan of a team - they don't always measure up to our desires. I can live with that and have no need to make excuses for it. But, whistles do break the flow, legit or not. That has always been true. It is impossible to say what would have happened if this game had been called better, more fair on both sides. I will say Boston would probably have lost, but it would have been a close, exciting game instead of what it turned into. Again, that is just a guess.

I also wanted to mention in my previous post that I *do* think the Celtics have been the recipient of ref help in the past, including in 2008. Not in every series/game, but in particular spots. I do not believe the NBA "hates the Celtics" - the NBA loves money and marketing and the whole spectacle the league has become. Sure, what league wouldn't, but it just appears they have taken it way too far, to the point they are leading refs to make calls in favor of particular players and, therefore, teams.

I really wanted to see a series where Boston fought Miami. I picked Miami to win in 5 and felt that a logical prediction, but I wanted to watch my team go for it, even with what I felt was the inevitable loss. Last night was ridiculous because the Celtics, the team I know, were not allowed to play the way they can. It is very easy for the officials to modify a team's gameplan like we saw last night - just prevent the inside game and force jumpers as the only option. Frankly, most people watching would just end up concluding Boston sucks and the coaching is stupid and wonder why they are shooting so many jumpers.

Plausible deniability is a great asset here for the league. It is impossible to prove what would have happened without the whistles I and others think affected the game, so in the end the argument is moot. Is it possible the game was called fairly and we are just not smart enough to understand that? Ok, maybe it is possible...but we can never know. For me the problem is the fact that reasonable people today are saying the officiating was atrocious and biased. Just the fact there is a lack of trust in the refs demonstrates how far the NBA has fallen.

[celtsfan84]

The nba: Where brainwashing happens. Stern wants it that way.

The refs have been so bad people now accept it and go by stats in the box score not by when fouls were called just based on how many total are called. Their are alot of factors the box score does not show and has already been well documented by what is termed as 'whining' incorrectly by some.

When did I say that?  Every event in life is biased.  For instance, young students prefer more attractive teachers.  So regardless of teaching skill, the more attractive teachers evoke a better response.  Bias.  I still attended school.

There is a different between a bias towards star players and an event being scripted.  Please look up definitions for each word.  Every event in life has some bias.  Life isn't fair.  GET OVER IT.

Holier than thou much? Your now blessing us all with your life lessons? Too funny man. Always gotta be one right? I wonder if you talk down to your peers or spouse this way.

My guess is if they had to constantly listen to your nonsensical babble you have neither. Or a very hard time holding onto them. I for one don't come on here for you to grace me with your all around knowledge of life. I'm getting the sense others feel the same.

Go be a motivational speaker to a bunch of sheep if you want. I hear there's a vacancy in Waco Texas. You'd fit right in. But please don't talk down to this entire blog as if we know nothing of what we saw last night.

You two should start your own site then, and live in Lala land together.

Neither one of you have any leg to stand on and quite frankly I question whether your fans of this team or just trolling this site after a pathetic David Stern classic. So if you need to troll take it elsewhere.

Your gonna find the vast majority of us have a short fuse today.

To those of us who are older than 14 it's a pretty common topic in any Basketball game.

If you didn't see the refs mess with the "flow" of this game in a negative fashion for the Celtics then you are new to the game of basketball and I suggest you hold your tongue.

If you didn't see the refs last night kill what we had of it then your a noob to this sport. It's really sad there are such uneducated fans of this team. Watch some more ball read a few books and grow some hair on your chest before you decide to post again. You clearly have a lot to learn about this sport and how it's idealy played and should be referee'd. Go blog on a Miami site. You'd fit right in.

All of these are quotes of yours.  Do you talk to your peers and spouse this way?  You are clearly the verbally abusive and holier than thou one here.  I feel for your spouse to put up with your misplaced anger and admitted short fuse.  Please mature.

[tgreanier]

The nba: Where brainwashing happens. Stern wants it that way.

The refs have been so bad people now accept it and go by stats in the box score not by when fouls were called just based on how many total are called. Their are alot of factors the box score does not show and has already been well documented by what is termed as 'whining' incorrectly by some.

When did I say that?  Every event in life is biased.  For instance, young students prefer more attractive teachers.  So regardless of teaching skill, the more attractive teachers evoke a better response.  Bias.  I still attended school.

There is a different between a bias towards star players and an event being scripted.  Please look up definitions for each word.  Every event in life has some bias.  Life isn't fair.  GET OVER IT.

Holier than thou much? Your now blessing us all with your life lessons? Too funny man. Always gotta be one right? I wonder if you talk down to your peers or spouse this way.

My guess is if they had to constantly listen to your nonsensical babble you have neither. Or a very hard time holding onto them. I for one don't come on here for you to grace me with your all around knowledge of life. I'm getting the sense others feel the same.

Go be a motivational speaker to a bunch of sheep if you want. I hear there's a vacancy in Waco Texas. You'd fit right in. But please don't talk down to this entire blog as if we know nothing of what we saw last night.

You two should start your own site then, and live in Lala land together.

Neither one of you have any leg to stand on and quite frankly I question whether your fans of this team or just trolling this site after a pathetic David Stern classic. So if you need to troll take it elsewhere.

Your gonna find the vast majority of us have a short fuse today.

To those of us who are older than 14 it's a pretty common topic in any Basketball game.

If you didn't see the refs mess with the "flow" of this game in a negative fashion for the Celtics then you are new to the game of basketball and I suggest you hold your tongue.

If you didn't see the refs last night kill what we had of it then your a noob to this sport. It's really sad there are such uneducated fans of this team. Watch some more ball read a few books and grow some hair on your chest before you decide to post again. You clearly have a lot to learn about this sport and how it's idealy played and should be referee'd. Go blog on a Miami site. You'd fit right in.

All of these are quotes of yours.  Do you talk to your peers and spouse this way?  You are clearly the verbally abusive and holier than thou one here.  I feel for your spouse to put up with your misplaced anger and admitted short fuse.  Please mature.

The sad thing here is *if* the conclusion that the refs are bias is correct, that is a real problem and one that affects the game we love in a terrible way. Ranting back and forth to each other about who knows more about the game and who has chest hair (wait..what?) just belittles the entire point. This is why people who have comments about refs after games are often seen as tin-foil hat wearing assclowns.

[celtsfan84]

If you think the NBA is scripted and no longer want to watch the games, feel free. Nobody is forcing you.

If you think officiating was the reason the Celtics lost, then good for you.  You're wrong, but good for you.

Did you know that we shot over twice as many free throws in Game 5 against a younger and more athletic 76ers team?  Did you know that their blogs complained about that game being scripted and fixed to favor the team with more star power?  Did you know there are 28 NBA teams other than the Celtics and HEAT?

What you fail to grasp is the concept of "flow" in an NBA game. To those of us who are older than 14 it's a pretty common topic in any Basketball game.

Once again.. If you didn't see the refs mess with the "flow" of this game in a negative fashion for the Celtics then you are new to the game of basketball and I suggest you hold your tongue.

I am well older than 14 and older than you.  Makign excuses after a loss is a loser's chore unless you played perfectly.  The Celtics didn't play perfectly.

You think it is mere coincidence that we struggled to score in the last series too? And the one before that.  Our "flow" has sucked for 14 straight playoff games now.  I guess all were due to the officials.  

If all of your points are nonsense insults, I suggest you stop posting.  It is pointless and rude.

I ask again, was our 08 Title team scripted and fixed?  Or are only the games we lose scripted?

I'm not talking about any other game besides last night which is the topic at hand. In basketball "momentum" say it with me.. M-O-M-E-N-T-U-M is extremely important and the key to any game. If you didn't see the refs last night kill what we had of it then your a noob to this sport. It's really sad there are such uneducated fans of this team. Watch some more ball read a few books and grow some hair on your chest before you decide to post again. You clearly have a lot to learn about this sport and how it's idealy played and should be referee'd. Go blog on a Miami site. You'd fit right in.

We also had our best scoring quarter of the entire postseason in last night's game.  Your excuse making is quite impressive.  And I'm older than you and have seen much more basketball than you.

I ask again, was our 08 NBA Title team fixed? Or the Philadelphia series?

I think you are taking things way to black and white. It is not about "fixing" a game, as in scripting it to a conclusion. It is about helping a particular team. I remember distinctly in 2008 the awful officiating in more than one series - and not just the  Celtics series. The 2008 Celtics were a much better team, so their opponents would have needed much more help. As with any process, things improve over time. Meaning: the ability for refs to control the flow gets better, presumably more subtle.

I understand why you would say something like "blaming the refs is for losers." I think it is a lame thing to do if you say the ONLY reason a team lost was because of officiating. As much as I 100% believe the officials are bias and the league has a vested interest in getting super stars into the finals, I also believe a great team can overcome this bias. Boston is not a great team, not anymore. The fact they are in the finals is amazing given their situation and losing to the Heat is almost inevitable without any assistance from the refs. It is not about "we lost to the Heat because of the officials" - I would agree with you that is a stupid and childish comment.

But, and this is important, when the officials make it clear on the floor that the Celtics will not be allowed to play defense inside coupled with not being able to drive inside without getting fouled in the first half...it DOES change the game. It turns the plan into jump shooting. If Boston had an amazing jump shooting night, they would have won...but that is the "subtlety" of the bias. The refs made it very, very hard for the Celtics to pull off an upset last night. Whether they lost by 30 or 3, whether it was tied at the half or Miami was already well on their way to victory doesn't matter - the refs were involved in controlling the flow for one team positively and for another negatively.

As I said elsewhere, there will be a game this series (probably game 3) where Boston is the recipient of the refs love. I hope all the people who are bashing the refs (me included) will admit the bias there too. For me, it is not that the Heat got help and the poor old Celtics lost...it is that anyone gets help.

The NBA has lost integrity, more and more each season. It is silly to conclude that because they NBA is how it is now (refs helping) that means it is how it always was. Maybe it was, but I do not recall seeing obvious bias, whether Boston was in the game or two totally different teams. Bad calls happen, refs are human.

I understand both sides of this argument and I am sensitive to both sides. So let me conclude with what I think most people are saying:

1. Boston's play was a huge part of the loss
2. The officials were biased, not calling the game fairly on both sides.
3. The final totals of fouls is meaningless since most of the fouls on Miami were whistled when it no longer mattered. It is very possible this was intentional to "disguise" the bias.
4. Lebron and Wade receive super star calls and have many of their indiscretions (fouls other teams are whistled for and obvious travels, ball carrying, etc..) ignored.
5. In a game where Ray is whistled for saying "No!" and turning away, how is Lebron taunting KG not whistled? I agree what Lebron did should NOT have been whistled in a normal game, but how - in THIS game - is that not a tech?
6. Because the NBA appears to be so corrupt, many people are somewhere between frustrated and just "done."

I appreciate your well-balanced and thoughtful post.  I think discussion between adults who disagree is healthy when it is intelligent discourse.

But I have to ask - regarding point 3, our brst scoring quarter was in Quarter 2.  The foul calls were even in Quarter 3.  Wasn't Quarter 3 when we lost the game?

Its a good question. I can only answer with what I thought last night. "Wow, the Celtics have some heart. Even with the crap officiating, they are showing some life here." This should not be interpreted as me saying the Celtics are "pure" and every other team is dirty. It is just an example of what I mean by the officials only having "so much control." My belief after that rousing 2nd quarter and a tie game was that the officials would make [dang]ed sure that would not stick, no matter how the Celtics played.

Now, the Celtics played like crap coming into the third and with or without the refs help, they were owned. That is just life being a fan of a team - they don't always measure up to our desires. I can live with that and have no need to make excuses for it. But, whistles do break the flow, legit or not. That has always been true. It is impossible to say what would have happened if this game had been called better, more fair on both sides. I will say Boston would probably have lost, but it would have been a close, exciting game instead of what it turned into. Again, that is just a guess.

I also wanted to mention in my previous post that I *do* think the Celtics have been the recipient of ref help in the past, including in 2008. Not in every series/game, but in particular spots. I do not believe the NBA "hates the Celtics" - the NBA loves money and marketing and the whole spectacle the league has become. Sure, what league wouldn't, but it just appears they have taken it way too far, to the point they are leading refs to make calls in favor of particular players and, therefore, teams.

I really wanted to see a series where Boston fought Miami. I picked Miami to win in 5 and felt that a logical prediction, but I wanted to watch my team go for it, even with what I felt was the inevitable loss. Last night was ridiculous because the Celtics, the team I know, were not allowed to play the way they can. It is very easy for the officials to modify a team's gameplan like we saw last night - just prevent the inside game and force jumpers as the only option. Frankly, most people watching would just end up concluding Boston sucks and the coaching is stupid and wonder why they are shooting so many jumpers.

Plausible deniability is a great asset here for the league. It is impossible to prove what would have happened without the whistles I and others think affected the game, so in the end the argument is moot. Is it possible the game was called fairly and we are just not smart enough to understand that? Ok, maybe it is possible...but we can never know. For me the problem is the fact that reasonable people today are saying the officiating was atrocious and biased. Just the fact there is a lack of trust in the refs demonstrates how far the NBA has fallen.

Great post.  My belief though is that no NBA Champion that I can ever remember was decided by the refs.  Stars have gotten special calls before and it will happen again, but in the long run I think the best team generally wins.

[CelticHooligan3]

Guess I struck some sort of nerve cause you seem to be taking this very personally. I guess somthing I said must have been grounded in some sort of truth..  

[CelticHooligan3]

Anyways I'm done feeding the troll. Hopefully though he will teach us some more life lessons. God was that little rant educational. We can only pray to have teachers in this country such as yourself.

[guava_wrench]

The sad thing here is *if* the conclusion that the refs are bias is correct, that is a real problem and one that affects the game we love in a terrible way. Ranting back and forth to each other about who knows more about the game and who has chest hair (wait..what?) just belittles the entire point. This is why people who have comments about refs after games are often seen as tin-foil hat wearing assclowns.

There is nothing the league or refs can do to stop certain fans from blaming refs. There are so many fans and we have varied temperments. Some are like Tommy and they trust their knee jerk reactions despite them being heavily tainted by their emotional investment in the game. They fail to realize that they are hoping for certain outcomes on every play, so when their player goes to the line on a questionable foul call, they think their player was hacked. When the opposing player doesn't get the same call, they see it as good defense.

The reality is that the game goes to fast for us to really see clearly what happened on many plays without slow mo instant replay. But our brains don't let this stop them from interpreting the visual inputs and this interpretation goes through the filter of what we hope will happen. We all have different levels at which we let our biases filter rule our game viewing. Some embrace it. Others are wary of their knee jerk reactions and actively challenge their initial perceptions.

Even the person who challenges their own perceptions can analyze the tape of a game and find that the other team got more calls in a particular game. We would expect this since we can expect something similar to a normal distribution on beneficiaries of bad calls so some games will go one way, some another. But to determine this requires a systemic analysis to control for our biases. This would require a disinterested observer going through the replays of every play and tallying calls/non-calls. The approach of many fans is to jump to conclusions based on what they felt while watching, which is heavily skewed by their emotion engagement while rooting for their team and hoping for particular outcomes. A bad call against their team seems far more significant than a bad call against the opponent due to the hoped for outcomes while watching the game and the intense emotion.

Since there are many fans who rant based on this, I will admit that I find it difficult to respect the general ref-blaming approach, though there are in fact games where ref mistakes do have a serious impact on outcomes. This isn't as bad now that there is review at the end of the game, but we still have no remedy for missed calls (e.g., if you miss a player stepping out of bounds and don't blow a whistle, replay can never fix that). I feel that most of the ref blaming is Chicken Little stuff but there are occasionally games where the refs' mistakes may have lead to a different team winning. I do not buy for a second that yesterday was such a game.

I am glad to see a post about the Celtics free throw shooting. That was a far more significant problem than 2 techs. Miami fans can also pull out individual plays or stats if they want to evidence mine about how the refs missed calls that should have been in their favor. But we lost about 5 or so points by shooting way under expected percentages from the line. The refs gave us foul calls but we wasted them.