why are we starting ray?

[CapnDunks]

I was just talking to someone about this yesterday. While I admit that Sasha and Pietrus aren't ideal to guard turner and williams, ray is clearly not able to move his feet to stop penetration on D.

I think the reason this became so obvious last game was because Rondo was having a lot of trouble with Holiday and the bigs couldn't help both guards. Also part of why Hawes saw so many open shots. KG had to sag off him because Rondo and Ray couldn't keep their men out of the paint.

I love Ray, but he's visibly hurting. He's missing open 3s. I'd limit his minutes in favor of Sasha playing some behind Pietrus. Hope Ray proves me wrong though.

I don't think he got that many in Game 6. The wide open 3 that coulda cut it to 3 in the final minute of the game (and probably the one I would have taken him getting) is probably as wide open as he got all game, but I don't think he ever got that many other shots that good.

I'm hoping this two day rest will help him with that.

I do think it's worth noting that Ray only had 26 minutes this game.

I did not notice how few minutes he played, hopefully that combined with some rest can help.

I thought he missed another reasonably open 3 in the 4th and a pull up 3 off a screen on the right side that is a healthy Ray's bread and butter. I might be misremembering. I definitely have different standards for him in terms of what qualifies as wide open.

[rayallen1934]

I was just talking to someone about this yesterday. While I admit that Sasha and Pietrus aren't ideal to guard turner and williams, ray is clearly not able to move his feet to stop penetration on D.

I think the reason this became so obvious last game was because Rondo was having a lot of trouble with Holiday and the bigs couldn't help both guards. Also part of why Hawes saw so many open shots. KG had to sag off him because Rondo and Ray couldn't keep their men out of the paint.

I love Ray, but he's visibly hurting. He's missing open 3s. I'd limit his minutes in favor of Sasha playing some behind Pietrus. Hope Ray proves me wrong though.

I don't think he got that many in Game 6. The wide open 3 that coulda cut it to 3 in the final minute of the game (and probably the one I would have taken him getting) is probably as wide open as he got all game, but I don't think he ever got that many other shots that good.

I'm hoping this two day rest will help him with that.

I do think it's worth noting that Ray only had 26 minutes this game.

I did not notice how few minutes he played, hopefully that combined with some rest can help.

I thought he missed another reasonably open 3 in the 4th and a pull up 3 off a screen on the right side that is a healthy Ray's bread and butter. I might be misremembering. I definitely have different standards for him in terms of what qualifies as wide open.

Ray was 4-11 on the night 1-5 threes

i think 3 of his 5 threes were open, one was a desperation heave at the shot clock buzzer from halfcourt, he missed a open jumper around the curl to start the game

missed an open jumper from the baseline

i think most of his shots were open , hes just not himself

[looseball]

There is no reason to start Pietrus since Ray is going to get the majority of the minutes anyways.  You may think he is done, but Doc doesn't, and Doc is prepared to lose with Ray on the court, and I don't blame him.

I do.

[wiley]

Ray is playing okay considering his injury and we definitely need him.
He could still win a game or two for us with hot shooting.

But he shouldn't be starting.  We are too old to start Ray Allen.
Let a younger guy (Pietrus) bust his butt at the outset of the game.
We know Ray will be in at the end...

(imo Doc should be open to not playing Ray at the end if he's struggling, but that just won't happen, so the above post is all I'm asking for...)

[Geo123]

I agree and would start Pietrus over
the hobbled Ray Allen. It's painful to watch him.

So you would rather start the hobbled Pietrus over the hobbled Allen?  Because actually both of them are hobbled. If you play Pietrus too many minutes his knee will blow up and he will miss time.  To me it doesn't really matter who they start but they will need some minutes from another guard and probably one with a little size so either Sasha or Marquis...

[wiley]

Ray is playing okay considering his injury and we definitely need him.
He could still win a game or two for us with hot shooting.

But he shouldn't be starting.  We are too old to start Ray Allen.
Let a younger guy (Pietrus) bust his butt at the outset of the game.
We know Ray will be in at the end...

(imo Doc should be open to not playing Ray at the end if he's struggling, but that just won't happen, so the above post is all I'm asking for...)

And to add to the above post, In my opinion we are much more likely to enjoy a rare blowout win by starting the game with our best defensive unit, not by getting out to a first quarter lead with a couple of threes.  A team like the Celtics just coasts when it gets the early lead with hot shooting, whereas this group gets energized when they get back to nuts and bolts Celtics defense.  That's what energizes this group and is more likely to engender a blowout win.

[wiley]

I agree and would start Pietrus over
the hobbled Ray Allen. It's painful to watch him.

So you would rather start the hobbled Pietrus over the hobbled Allen?  Because actually both of them are hobbled. If you play Pietrus too many minutes his knee will blow up and he will miss time.  To me it doesn't really matter who they start but they will need some minutes from another guard and probably one with a little size so either Sasha or Marquis...

If Pietrus is too hobbled to set a defensive tone then yes, start Pavlovic.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Peitrus and sasha would do sooo much better...ray is hurt......it isn't his fault, he is still our man ray...but you don't play the man while this hurt when you have options....even md.....we seen ray sit a bit and just wince in pain rubbing his ankles.....what is doc thinking.....or why is he not thinking.......ankle pain is VERY unreasonable to deal with....just walking..never mind trying to play hoop...!!!

[looseball]

Ray is playing okay considering his injury and we definitely need him.
He could still win a game or two for us with hot shooting.

But he shouldn't be starting.  We are too old to start Ray Allen.
Let a younger guy (Pietrus) bust his butt at the outset of the game.
We know Ray will be in at the end...

(imo Doc should be open to not playing Ray at the end if he's struggling, but that just won't happen, so the above post is all I'm asking for...)

And to add to the above post, In my opinion we are much more likely to enjoy a rare blowout win by starting the game with our best defensive unit, not by getting out to a first quarter lead with a couple of threes.  A team like the Celtics just coasts when it gets the early lead with hot shooting, whereas this group gets energized when they get back to nuts and bolts Celtics defense.  That's what energizes this group and is more likely to engender a blowout win.

TP.  That's it in a nuts-and-bolts shell.

[rayallen1934]

Ray is playing okay considering his injury and we definitely need him.
He could still win a game or two for us with hot shooting.

But he shouldn't be starting.  We are too old to start Ray Allen.
Let a younger guy (Pietrus) bust his butt at the outset of the game.
We know Ray will be in at the end...

(imo Doc should be open to not playing Ray at the end if he's struggling, but that just won't happen, so the above post is all I'm asking for...)

And to add to the above post, In my opinion we are much more likely to enjoy a rare blowout win by starting the game with our best defensive unit, not by getting out to a first quarter lead with a couple of threes.  A team like the Celtics just coasts when it gets the early lead with hot shooting, whereas this group gets energized when they get back to nuts and bolts Celtics defense.  That's what energizes this group and is more likely to engender a blowout win.

TP.  That's it in a nuts-and-bolts shell.

if you have watched, and im positive you have

no matter how this team gets a lead wether its from defense or offense, NO LEAD is good with the Celtics, leads generally are not good.