NBA All Defensive Teams named

[Fafnir]

it's pretty easy to determine that Howard had an off-year, while Chandler had a great one. That's why I think Chandler's DPOY award was well-deserved.

I think the continued decline of Hedo, Jameer, Richardson (both of them) all were visible and hurt their team defense. Plus given Anderson's disasterous showings defensively without Howard I think playing him 10 extra minutes a game also hurt the team's defensive rating.

Neither player is entirely responsible for the defensive performance of their entire team. Even Howard having an "off" year doesn't mean Chandler was a better defender, that's more the expectations game.

Similar to how Rose having his career year last year didn't make him a better player than Howard or LBJ. (but he still won the MVP)

[GreenFaith1819]

I'm watching Game 4 between OKC-LA on NBATV right now. I'm watching Kendrick Perkins make key rebounds, lay that big body of his on Bynum, take up space down low.

He certainly made his presence felt in that game, and even up to this point.

Kendrick Perkins, IMO, is one of the most under-rated defenders in the NBA. I wish someone smarter than I would come up with some official "Intangibles" statistic that would become a part of a player's worth.

Hollinger, Simmons: Please get to work on this .

I am guessing that Kendrick Perkins would rate Number 1 on such a list.

[OmarSekou]

I'm happy KG and Rondo got some recognition and Bradley's on the radar.

I definitely think Iggy should be there, but Kobe and CP3 (the guys getting the most hate) are not terrible choices. Defense is about a lot more than how many times your man gets by you. I know others disagree but I value what Rondo does on d more than what Bradley did at his peak this year. Similar to Rondo, CP3 and Kobe are both leaders on that read offensive sets well and help direct their defenses. There's a reason CP3 leads the league in steals every year. There's a reason why Kobe is one of the few guys who has shut down Rondo and is usually tasked with guarding the opposing team's best guard in important games.

[ballin]

I'm watching Game 4 between OKC-LA on NBATV right now. I'm watching Kendrick Perkins make key rebounds, lay that big body of his on Bynum, take up space down low.

He certainly made his presence felt in that game, and even up to this point.

Kendrick Perkins, IMO, is one of the most under-rated defenders in the NBA. I wish someone smarter than I would come up with some official "Intangibles" statistic that would become a part of a player's worth.

Hollinger, Simmons: Please get to work on this .

I am guessing that Kendrick Perkins would rate Number 1 on such a list.

They actually pretty much have this over at Synergy Sports Technology, which is now pretty much the authority on play-by-play stats. They can tell you stats like what % of the time Kobe drives left when he's guarded by a point guard at the top of the key (aka, they can tell you pretty much any stat you can dream of).

I bet if you looked at all of their Perk stats they'd probably tell you what you've already noticed... he does a TON of dirty work

[twinbree]

All NBA individual awards are popularity contests. Because they are voted by the media. I never take them seriously

Head coaches vote for the all defensive team.

[GreenFaith1819]

I'm watching Game 4 between OKC-LA on NBATV right now. I'm watching Kendrick Perkins make key rebounds, lay that big body of his on Bynum, take up space down low.

He certainly made his presence felt in that game, and even up to this point.

Kendrick Perkins, IMO, is one of the most under-rated defenders in the NBA. I wish someone smarter than I would come up with some official "Intangibles" statistic that would become a part of a player's worth.

Hollinger, Simmons: Please get to work on this .

I am guessing that Kendrick Perkins would rate Number 1 on such a list.

They actually pretty much have this over at Synergy Sports Technology, which is now pretty much the authority on play-by-play stats. They can tell you stats like what % of the time Kobe drives left when he's guarded by a point guard at the top of the key (aka, they can tell you pretty much any stat you can dream of).

I bet if you looked at all of their Perk stats they'd probably tell you what you've already noticed... he does a TON of dirty work

Thanks. Now, if we could just get these coaches that vote for these defensive teams to take that info into consideration, I'm guessing that a few of these players wouldn't have made this list.

I miss that big guy.

There was one play in that game 4, where Bynum just couldn't move Perk - at all. Drew was eyeing what he thought was an easy inbounds play and score, and he just couldn't move Perk out of the way.

I saw that play, and am thankful that LA is eliminated.

Drew/Pau would've been too great a load for KG/Bass/Stiemer.

Perk/Serge did us a HUGE favor - but we must get through PHI and out of the East first.

[GreenFaith1819]

According to Synergy Sports, Joakim shouldn't even be on this list.

Tim Duncan is warranted. He ranked 57th defensively.

Perk ranked 80th.

Joakim ranked 240th defensively overall.

Boozer ranked 280th.

Paul George ranked 258th.

Just wow.

Popularity contest....there's just got to be more that's looked at with these rankings than just whether a coach likes a player.

But I'm not a coach, so perhaps they see something I don't.

[Evantime34]

I strongly agree with the earlier poster that stated Bradley is a much better defender than Rondo. While Rondo might not let his guy beat him, he often doesn't try his hardest to stay in front of him.

The poke from behind move is garbage. People love it because it sometimes results in turnovers. However, if he fought through the screens and stayed in front of his man instead of doing this the missed shots and shot clock violations would sure make up for the turnovers he forced.

I understand that he needs to be the main cog on offense and push the tempo so you don't want to tire him out fighting through every screen. But him not fighting as hard as he can through every screen makes him a worse defender than AB.

[celtsfan84]

According to Synergy Sports, Joakim shouldn't even be on this list.

Tim Duncan is warranted. He ranked 57th defensively.

Perk ranked 80th.

Joakim ranked 240th defensively overall.

Boozer ranked 280th.

Paul George ranked 258th.

Just wow.

Popularity contest....there's just got to be more that's looked at with these rankings than just whether a coach likes a player.

But I'm not a coach, so perhaps they see something I don't.

Call me crazy, but I don't think the defensive teams are all that bad this year.

-LeBron belongs on the first team and has the athleticism to defend all five positions at times.  

-Tony Allen is the closest thing to a stopper in the NBA.

-Dwight Howard's teams defensive rating is worse than Chandler's, sure.  But his individual defensive rating is better.  He also outrebounds Chandler by around 5 a game.  Finishing a defensive possession with a rebound is key.  The contest is close, but my vote (I don't have one) would be Howard.

-Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo are closer on defense than everyone here thinks.  I know it is a sin to compliment CP3 on this forum, but he isn't terrible and is actually quite good on D.  All point guards allow blow bys from time to time.  It is the quickest position on the floor and one where the PG has screens and the entire floor to work with.  Either one is fine.  I'd personally pick Rondo but CP3 is quite close.

-Ibaka over KG is pretty criminal.  Ibaka sells himself out of position with frequency chasing blocked shots.  Garnett is far better.  But in fairness, Garnett played Center all year anyway, not Power Forward.

The second team is similarly defensible.  Igoudala is better than Kobe, but the 76ers play Evan Turner at SG and Igoudala at SF.

Both teams are pretty reasonable.

-Duncan is still a quality defender.  Declining but still good.  
-Bradley played too little to begin the year and is too off the radar.  He cracked 20 minutes only once in the Celtics first 13 games (that's about 20% of their games in a shortened year).  Can't be a non-factor for 20% of games and be a contender for this type of award. He'll be there next year.
-Maybe Noah's D stats are low from fatigue in covering for Boozer?
-I've never been that excited about Perk as a defender.  He is a great low block defender, but the NBA is shifting in a different direction.  Fewer teams have elite centers, so a quick defensive center who can chase guards and forwards (like Dwight and Chandler) is much more valuable.
-Surprised to see that on Paul George.  Maybe the coaches (and myself) are tricked by his defensive potential?  He is tall, has long arms, and great speed.

Nice research, GreenFaith.

[BballTim]

I strongly agree with the earlier poster that stated Bradley is a much better defender than Rondo. While Rondo might not let his guy beat him, he often doesn't try his hardest to stay in front of him.

The poke from behind move is garbage. People love it because it sometimes results in turnovers. However, if he fought through the screens and stayed in front of his man instead of doing this the missed shots and shot clock violations would sure make up for the turnovers he forced.

I understand that he needs to be the main cog on offense and push the tempo so you don't want to tire him out fighting through every screen. But him not fighting as hard as he can through every screen makes him a worse defender than AB.

  If Rondo didn't try hard to stay in front of his man there wouldn't be a need for a screen to begin with. And I don't think that fighting through the screens is generally an option. Rondo's guarding a player outside the three point line and that player calls out a big to set a screen. He goes by the screen and heads straight for the lane. There's no way for Rondo to stay in front of his man when he's picked off by a big and there's very little chance he'll get backin front of his man when he's behind him heading into the lane. That poke move is the only real option.

  It's true that Bradley expends more energy than Rondo on defense, in part because he has so much less responsibility on the other end of the court and he also doesn't play close to as many minutes. But "trying harder" doesn't make him better, just like a player like Hansbrough expending a ton of effort on defense doesn't put him on the all defense team. Not that Bradley's bad, mind you, but there's a little apples and oranges to the comparison.

[BballTim]

-Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo are closer on defense than everyone here thinks.  I know it is a sin to compliment CP3 on this forum, but he isn't terrible and is actually quite good on D.  All point guards allow blow bys from time to time.  It is the quickest position on the floor and one where the PG has screens and the entire floor to work with.  Either one is fine.  I'd personally pick Rondo but CP3 is quite close.

  You have to wonder how much injuries played into it. The games Rondo missed, along with a few games right after he got back into the lineup and wasn't at his best, account for a quarter of the season.

[2short]

I strongly agree with the earlier poster that stated Bradley is a much better defender than Rondo. While Rondo might not let his guy beat him, he often doesn't try his hardest to stay in front of him.

The poke from behind move is garbage. People love it because it sometimes results in turnovers. However, if he fought through the screens and stayed in front of his man instead of doing this the missed shots and shot clock violations would sure make up for the turnovers he forced.

I understand that he needs to be the main cog on offense and push the tempo so you don't want to tire him out fighting through every screen. But him not fighting as hard as he can through every screen makes him a worse defender than AB.

  If Rondo didn't try hard to stay in front of his man there wouldn't be a need for a screen to begin with. And I don't think that fighting through the screens is generally an option. Rondo's guarding a player outside the three point line and that player calls out a big to set a screen. He goes by the screen and heads straight for the lane. There's no way for Rondo to stay in front of his man when he's picked off by a big and there's very little chance he'll get backin front of his man when he's behind him heading into the lane. That poke move is the only real option.

  It's true that Bradley expends more energy than Rondo on defense, in part because he has so much less responsibility on the other end of the court and he also doesn't play close to as many minutes. But "trying harder" doesn't make him better, just like a player like Hansbrough expending a ton of effort on defense doesn't put him on the all defense team. Not that Bradley's bad, mind you, but there's a little apples and oranges to the comparison.

agree, i was trying to be positive and not knock bradley in any way (not that you did) but rondo CANNOT expend that sort of energy when he hasn't had a backup point guard YET in his career.  Look at what rondo does when dooling/pierce can run the offense and give him 3-5 minutes sitting.

[LooseCannon]

Bradley hasn't played enough minutes to warrant getting anywhere near as many votes as Rondo, but he has shown enough that if he gets starters' minutes next season he will be in the conversation for first team all-defensive even if he spends most of his time guarding opposing shooting guards, even tall ones.

[celtsfan84]

-Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo are closer on defense than everyone here thinks.  I know it is a sin to compliment CP3 on this forum, but he isn't terrible and is actually quite good on D.  All point guards allow blow bys from time to time.  It is the quickest position on the floor and one where the PG has screens and the entire floor to work with.  Either one is fine.  I'd personally pick Rondo but CP3 is quite close.

  You have to wonder how much injuries played into it. The games Rondo missed, along with a few games right after he got back into the lineup and wasn't at his best, account for a quarter of the season.

Fair point.  Also true that Bradley's more limited role offensively and lesser minutes might tire him out less than Rondo or CP3.

I think Rondo and CP3 both should have made it.  Which one is first team and which one is second is more subjective.

[jdpapa3]

According to Synergy Sports, Joakim shouldn't even be on this list.

Tim Duncan is warranted. He ranked 57th defensively.

Perk ranked 80th.

Joakim ranked 240th defensively overall.

Boozer ranked 280th.

Paul George ranked 258th.

That's raw points per possession scored against data that's not filtered. Can't really use that as a decider. A team with a philosophy to switch on every pick and roll can mess the stats up for a guard with terrible defensive bigs, as an example. For Synergy, the safe bets are to go with isolation for guards/sf's and postups for Bigs. Tweeners like Josh Smith are kind of lost in that, though.

Perk allowed .78 PPP in postups.

KG allowed .71 PPP in postups.

Crazy that Bass allowed .60. Too bad he's horrible at team D. You can get the gist of team effects from on/off court data.