Author Topic: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?  (Read 10012 times)

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Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2012, 02:19:28 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Absolutely not. He has contributed nothing in the playoffs and belongs where he is, on the bench.
What I have seen of Stiemsma in the playoffs has been bad and I agree with Coach. He had a good game 1 vs Atlanta and since then has look terribly slow on rotations, unable to handle the athletic big men the Celtics have faced in a one on one defensive situation(Smith, Horford, and Lavoy Allen have made him look bad), and even his offense looks scared and slow. He's had tons of open 15 footers and doesn't take them and his picks are slow coming and late.


And this perplexes me because the last month of the season Stiemsma looked like a solid back up center. Now he looks to be where he should be, sitting on the bench.

Also, can we please stop with the calls for Sasha, Daniels and Moore as well. The players playing are the right players. Live and die by them. They may not play great every game because of injuries but they will get the job done.

Do you think they're the right players by your own assessment--or because Doc has chosen them to play?
By my assessment Doc is making the right choices.

What we need is offense from the guards that maintains the defense that is being played while having the ability to perform in tough, pressure packed situations.

E'twaun Moore barely showed he had the ability to score in garbage time of regular season games. He and his game are not physically or mentally prepared for the playoffs.

Marquis Daniels is a horrible outside shooter and he is terribly passive on the offensive end. His defense is no better than Ray's is now when Ray is hurt. Say what you want about Ray's offense but his defense has been very good. If I was to expect smart and productive offensive play from either Allen or Daniels, I would say Ray being hurt has a better chance to produce than Daniels.

Sasha Pavlovic is more of a SF and doesn't have the footspeed or lateral movement to defend the perimeter against the faster, quicker, more athletic 2 guards that Philly has. Ray and Bradley have done a great job on Turner and Meeks in this series.

The problem has been Ray's inability to get open and hit outside shots and Bradley's cooling down from the outside after a scorching finish to the season. Both are hurt but still hurt they are better defensively than the other guys and offensively have a better chance of playing better than the end of the bench crew.

Sometimes fans have to realize that they know next to nothing about coaching and that end of bench guys are at the end of the bench for a reason. The number one mistake a coach can make is to be inconsistent in his decisions and muck around with lineups and rotations on a regular basis. Spoelstra is known for this and what has it got him. His players don't like or respect him and the team seems to be constantly in turmoil as everyone but Bosh, Wade and LeBron know their role.

Good and great coaches don't just start throwing stuff against a wall to see if it sticks in the middle of a playoff run. Doing that gets you fired and loses you the locker room. Coach the way you coach and let the players that got you there win or lose the game.

What people just don't get is that a coach will only be directly responsible for 1-2 wins or 1-2 losses a year if they are doing there jobs correctly and Doc does his job better than almost every coach in the league. You don't believe this? Just listen to Keeny Shaq and Chuck on TNT. They say it a bunch.


Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2012, 10:59:17 PM »

Offline RajonRondo9Dime

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The bottom line is...

IF Steimsma is the better option and
IF Sasha/any bench scrub is the better option..

WE. ARE. DOOMED.

Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2012, 12:18:51 AM »

Offline j804

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I'm really tired of the

"Should we have played Steimsma"

or

"Should Sasha be playing"  posts.... Folks, do some thinking.. Real hard thinking......

If you have to ask yourself those types of questions, do you honestly believe this team has a shot in hell? Sorry, if the W/L comes down to Sasha Patheticvic or Greg Stemcell, we're doomed.

The bottom line is...

IF Steimsma is the better option and
IF Sasha/any bench scrub is the better option..

WE. ARE. DOOMED.
It's all just basketball talk and what people do on forums and well it was an off day, if you are so sick and tired of these threads you are still posting in here because?
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Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2012, 12:12:14 PM »

Offline RajonRondo9Dime

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I'm really tired of the

"Should we have played Steimsma"

or

"Should Sasha be playing"  posts.... Folks, do some thinking.. Real hard thinking......

If you have to ask yourself those types of questions, do you honestly believe this team has a shot in hell? Sorry, if the W/L comes down to Sasha Patheticvic or Greg Stemcell, we're doomed.

The bottom line is...

IF Steimsma is the better option and
IF Sasha/any bench scrub is the better option..

WE. ARE. DOOMED.
It's all just basketball talk and what people do on forums and well it was an off day, if you are so sick and tired of these threads you are still posting in here because?

There are far more important/interesting topics than "Gee golly wiz, should we be playing this D league bench rider in the biggest games of the year?"

Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2012, 01:02:26 PM »

Offline clover

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Absolutely not. He has contributed nothing in the playoffs and belongs where he is, on the bench.
What I have seen of Stiemsma in the playoffs has been bad and I agree with Coach. He had a good game 1 vs Atlanta and since then has look terribly slow on rotations, unable to handle the athletic big men the Celtics have faced in a one on one defensive situation(Smith, Horford, and Lavoy Allen have made him look bad), and even his offense looks scared and slow. He's had tons of open 15 footers and doesn't take them and his picks are slow coming and late.


And this perplexes me because the last month of the season Stiemsma looked like a solid back up center. Now he looks to be where he should be, sitting on the bench.

Also, can we please stop with the calls for Sasha, Daniels and Moore as well. The players playing are the right players. Live and die by them. They may not play great every game because of injuries but they will get the job done.

Do you think they're the right players by your own assessment--or because Doc has chosen them to play?
By my assessment Doc is making the right choices.

What we need is offense from the guards that maintains the defense that is being played while having the ability to perform in tough, pressure packed situations.

E'twaun Moore barely showed he had the ability to score in garbage time of regular season games. He and his game are not physically or mentally prepared for the playoffs.

Marquis Daniels is a horrible outside shooter and he is terribly passive on the offensive end. His defense is no better than Ray's is now when Ray is hurt. Say what you want about Ray's offense but his defense has been very good. If I was to expect smart and productive offensive play from either Allen or Daniels, I would say Ray being hurt has a better chance to produce than Daniels.

Sasha Pavlovic is more of a SF and doesn't have the footspeed or lateral movement to defend the perimeter against the faster, quicker, more athletic 2 guards that Philly has. Ray and Bradley have done a great job on Turner and Meeks in this series.

The problem has been Ray's inability to get open and hit outside shots and Bradley's cooling down from the outside after a scorching finish to the season. Both are hurt but still hurt they are better defensively than the other guys and offensively have a better chance of playing better than the end of the bench crew.

Sometimes fans have to realize that they know next to nothing about coaching and that end of bench guys are at the end of the bench for a reason. The number one mistake a coach can make is to be inconsistent in his decisions and muck around with lineups and rotations on a regular basis. Spoelstra is known for this and what has it got him. His players don't like or respect him and the team seems to be constantly in turmoil as everyone but Bosh, Wade and LeBron know their role.

Good and great coaches don't just start throwing stuff against a wall to see if it sticks in the middle of a playoff run. Doing that gets you fired and loses you the locker room. Coach the way you coach and let the players that got you there win or lose the game.

What people just don't get is that a coach will only be directly responsible for 1-2 wins or 1-2 losses a year if they are doing there jobs correctly and Doc does his job better than almost every coach in the league. You don't believe this? Just listen to Keeny Shaq and Chuck on TNT. They say it a bunch.



I don't know about Ray's defense being better than MD's, but I don't want to see EM or MD out there either.  I'm not so sure that Sasha wouldn't have been better on Iggy than Ray, however.

But if Bradley goes down, I guess we'll see more of what Doc (and you) would do next.  I'd say Doc's overall management of players and a team is pretty good and he probably wears better on a team than any other coach long term, which is good, since he seems to be settled in here with Danny for the long run.

Coaches IMO aren't that different from business executives.  When guys get paid to make decisions in a dynamic environment like that they're regularly going with incomplete information.  They sometimes make decisions they'd like to take back (as Doc alluded to with sitting Bass through the fourth quarter of the last game) and then there are decisions that they know only in hindsight weren't good.  Also, any two coaches are likely to approach a team differently.  One approach may or may not be better than the other.

Some people have that approach to medical doctors, whereby they have superior training and experience and so they should never be second guessed.  But almost any MD would scoff at that insofar as they know there are colleagues they trust and respect--and colleagues they don't.

Finally, I also give coaches credit for more influencing more than one or two games a season.  The really good (and bad) ones, that is.


Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2012, 01:47:59 PM »

Offline thestackshow

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Steamer would foul out in less then 5 minutes.

They are calling touch fouls on all of our players, Steamer wouldnt be able to stay on the floor.
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Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2012, 04:10:16 PM »

Offline Weird Facts

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Love reading the "I know everything" posts on here.
Particularly the guy who wrote, "do some thinking here folks, I mean real thinking." In regards to playing Steamer  lol

We are thinking buddy don't worry.

I love Ryan Hollins energy & effort - but his shots under the basket look like a 3rd grader who's coach has to re-iterate shooting form every game.


& Brendan Bass has been great too right?  starting games off 5 for 5 then missing 10 straight shots (Solid) Let's keep him in! Forget Steimsma


Here is doing some thinking for you.  Doc is great at drawing up plays, he is great at managing personalities, realistically he does a lot of things very well.

But he may be the worst coach in the league as far as substitutions go.  He isn't even slightly utilizing his veterans.

Marquis played in the OT victory over Atlanta, came in played incredible D, was amazingly efficient & a +10 while on the court.  He has not played since then.

HATE ON QUIS all you want, any real coach would tell you he won that game for us.  He came in & the game turned around.


& hate on SASHA too, but when we go on a 7 MINUTE SCORING DROUGHT & KEYON DOOLING is taking step back one on one jumpers, I would rather see Sasha in their taking those shots 100 out of 100 times.

He at least can create offense, but your right.  Sasha & Stiemsma should stay on the bench.

We should play KEYON DOOLING, RYAN HOLLINS & A 1 ARMED AVERY BRADLEY that wasn't even good enough to be in the NBA at the beginning of the season according to you sir!

But forget the hate, we are losing games & it is because of poor substitutions, Teams like the Celtics should not go on 7 - 10 minute scoring droughts with the players they have on their roster.

& the fact that they are, makes zero sense.  If they go that long without a bucket, then these other guys should get their shot at PT.

My two cents & BTW, WE WILL WIN TONIGHT. 
 





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Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2012, 04:45:03 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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But he may be the worst coach in the league as far as substitutions go.

There are some bloggers out there who seem convinced that George Karl wins that award easily.
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Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2012, 05:15:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Love reading the "I know everything" posts on here.
Particularly the guy who wrote, "do some thinking here folks, I mean real thinking." In regards to playing Steamer  lol

We are thinking buddy don't worry.

I love Ryan Hollins energy & effort - but his shots under the basket look like a 3rd grader who's coach has to re-iterate shooting form every game.


& Brendan Bass has been great too right?  starting games off 5 for 5 then missing 10 straight shots (Solid) Let's keep him in! Forget Steimsma


Here is doing some thinking for you.  Doc is great at drawing up plays, he is great at managing personalities, realistically he does a lot of things very well.

But he may be the worst coach in the league as far as substitutions go.  He isn't even slightly utilizing his veterans.

Marquis played in the OT victory over Atlanta, came in played incredible D, was amazingly efficient & a +10 while on the court.  He has not played since then.

HATE ON QUIS all you want, any real coach would tell you he won that game for us.  He came in & the game turned around.


& hate on SASHA too, but when we go on a 7 MINUTE SCORING DROUGHT & KEYON DOOLING is taking step back one on one jumpers, I would rather see Sasha in their taking those shots 100 out of 100 times.

He at least can create offense, but your right.  Sasha & Stiemsma should stay on the bench.

We should play KEYON DOOLING, RYAN HOLLINS & A 1 ARMED AVERY BRADLEY that wasn't even good enough to be in the NBA at the beginning of the season according to you sir!

But forget the hate, we are losing games & it is because of poor substitutions, Teams like the Celtics should not go on 7 - 10 minute scoring droughts with the players they have on their roster.

& the fact that they are, makes zero sense.  If they go that long without a bucket, then these other guys should get their shot at PT.

My two cents & BTW, WE WILL WIN TONIGHT. 
 






And hate on Doc's substitution patterns all you want but the fact remains most playoff teams with success have 8-9 man rotations not 12-13 man rotations. End of bench players sit on the end of the bench in the playoffs for a reason. The reason is they don't belong on the court and IF you get something positive out of them IF you happen to use them once, you are usually lucky to have done so.

Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2012, 06:30:52 PM »

Offline OmarSekou

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No, Bass has to play because he's our best player. Even when he's slumping we need him if we want to win. And until Hollins' play drops he should get the rest of the minutes.

He's doing things for us that Steamer isn't capable of doing as far as defensive rotations go. He has better lateral quickness and is less foul prone so he's able to stick his man better.

As poor as his offensive game is, he's been able to draw fouls and force the man guarding him to work when he's in. He's gotten a few easy buckets on effort alone.

On both ends of the floor he works for rebounds. He opens up space for other guys and sets the tone with his hustle.

Steamer's the better individual player, but right now he doesn't make our team better than Hollins does. Ryan Hollins has not been the reason for any of our losses. Sure his game is ugly, but he's done what we've needed from him.

As these threads keep popping up and probably won't stop my question are: How will Steamer be a difference maker when he plays? What does he do that Hollins doesn't that will win us games?

If anyone answers those please don't use hypothetical arguments like "Doc has ruined his confidence because he doesn't like Steam."
"Suit up every day."

Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2012, 08:06:37 PM »

Offline 2short

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He looks good so far tonight and he's another offensive weapon.

Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2012, 08:12:21 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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He looks good so far tonight and he's another offensive weapon.

He did look good, and Hollins also played pretty well.  Bottom line is that Stiemer and Hollins are not worlds apart in terms of their value to the team.  We also don't know whether Stiemer's foot has been bothering him.  I don't fault Doc on this.

Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2012, 08:15:59 PM »

Offline 2short

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He looks good so far tonight and he's another offensive weapon.

He did look good, and Hollins also played pretty well.  Bottom line is that Stiemer and Hollins are not worlds apart in terms of their value to the team.  We also don't know whether Stiemer's foot has been bothering him.  I don't fault Doc on this.
I assume his foot was bothering him enough that his minutes when down and a relative new guy got the minutes.  Hollins has done well but he can't hit the pick & pop which we can use with rondo driving.
Bass should just concentrate on out working his man for rebounds, if the open jumpers are there great but he should be busting his butt for rebounds more than anything

Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2012, 09:15:33 PM »

Offline OmarSekou

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I think I'm wrong. Watching Steamer tonight I think he's hurt. He played fantastic (although the refs let us play physically which benefits him more than anyone) and would be a real asset if he played more.

Is it his left foot that's supposedly messed up? I thought I saw him favoring it, but he got pulled to quick for me to tell.

If anyone re-watches the game...on the possession before he goes out, he's chilling around the 3pt line (makes no sense) then makes a real slow jog to get back on D. Then he goes out.
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Re: Should we have seen some Steamer the last game?
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2012, 09:31:38 PM »

Offline goCeltics

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like steamer production out there when he get blocks, steals it help our offense to set up fast break post

It terms of production getting boards, block, rebounds and points steammer is way ahead of hollins

i like hollins positional defense but, feel he plays good team defense.