End of Season : Top 5 PGs this season?

[wdleehi]

Rondo's the best PG imo.  He controls the game like no other point guard in the league.  Paul is a VERY close second. The distance between these two is EXTREMELY small.  Rondo gets the edge because he does more on the court than Paul.. Rebounds, defends, runs faster, gets more assists etc. etc.

More assists, but more TO  (Paul has a better assist to TO ratio.  4.38 compared to 3.15)
Less steals
Lower shooting %



If you are going to compare them looking at stats, look at all the stats.  

Rondo provides 2.5 more assists, and 8 less points a game.  

We are talking about a difference of 2-3 points a game offensively.


On the flip side, if you look at steals and assists in terms of possessions, Rondo gave the other team 1.8 a game (TO - steals), Paul was a -.4 (meaning he creates an extra .4 possession a game)


Again, two guys that are very close.  


One last thing, his addition took a team with a .439 winning % and changed it to a .609 winning %.  (the team he left went from .561 to .318)

[LarBrd33]

Well... first... we're all ranking Rondo high, because of his assists, right?  That's a statistical thing.  It has a lot to do with our system and his role.  That said, it's a fantastic statistical achievement.  Let's take a look at who the top point guards were this year... statistically.  Personally, I'm still a sucker for the efficiency rating.  It's simple, uses traditional stats, Larry Bird used it and my fantasy basketball league bases their scores on it.  Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks ... subtract turnovers, missed shots and missed free throws.  Here's the top statistical point guards this year:

#1 - Chris Paul: 24.5
#2 - Russell Westbrook: 20.5
#3 - Derrick Rose: 20.4
#4 - Deron Williams: 19.4
#5 - Rajon Rondo:  19.3
#6 - Steve Nash: 18.8
#7 - Ty Lawson: 18.6
#8 - John Wall: 18.2
#9 - Kyrie Irving: 17.7
#10 - Kyle Lowrie: 17.5

So statistically speaking, Rondo was in the top 5 this year (up from #8 last year thanks to his huge assist numbers).  If we're asking who I'd take right now if I were starting a team from scratch to compete IMMEDIATELY, my personal rankings would probably look like this (pretending that Rose isn't battling major injuries):

#1 - Chris Paul
#2 - Derrick Rose (had a bad season due to injury.  I think he's overrated, but I have to go with him here.  He was #1 last year statistically)
#3 - Deron Williams (tough situation in Jersey.  He's traditionally been seen as 1b to Paul's 1a on the point guard rankings.  Even with those garbage teammates in Jersey he proved he's still that talented.  He's arguably above Rose depending on who you put next to him.  Elite point guard.
#4 - Rondo (based on my Celtic bias and my Celtic bias alone, I take Rondo 4th.  I might be better off taking Westbrook, though)
#5 - Westbrook (he's too good)

If, however, we're asking who I'd take to build around long-term... I might jump Kyrie Irving up to #4.  What he did at age 19 was RIDICULOUS.  Shoot... If we're factoring in his rookie contract, I probably favor him to Deron as well... I'd stick him 3rd.  

[Employee8]

Rondo with 15 assists last night against the Bucks without the starters playing significant minutes.  I know this is one game but he proves that he can still pile up the assists even without heavy shooters playing alongside him.  What a drastic difference between the Bucks game and the Heat/Atlanta games with and without Rondo.

He continues to amaze me with his playmaking.  It didn't even occur to me that he never attempted a shot (except for that end of the quarter heave maybe?) and that shows how great of a player he is.

The Rose/Deron/Rondo/Paul argument will continue for years but for this season, Rondo belongs in the top 2 or 3, that's for sure.

[LarBrd33]

Rondo with 15 assists last night against the Bucks without the starters playing significant minutes.  I know this is one game but he proves that he can still pile up the assists even without heavy shooters playing alongside him.  What a drastic difference between the Bucks game and the Heat/Atlanta games with and without Rondo.

He continues to amaze me with his playmaking.  It didn't even occur to me that he never attempted a shot (except for that end of the quarter heave maybe?) and that shows how great of a player he is.

The Rose/Deron/Rondo/Paul argument will continue for years but for this season, Rondo belongs in the top 2 or 3, that's for sure.

All due respect to Rondo... he took exactly 1 shot tonight.  None of the other point guards could get away with that.  They have too much responsibility to score.  Rondo isn't capable of scoring on their level, but if Deron or Paul were asked to do nothing, but pass... I'm fairly certain they could drop 15 assists at will too.  It's kinda like when Kobe says, "I could have dropped 50 tonight"... he's probably right.  But Kobe can't just take 40 shots a night every night.  Rondo has the luxury of being almost exclusively a setup guy who only needs to pass the ball.  It's a credit to his teammates ability to hit shots.

[Employee8]

Rondo with 15 assists last night against the Bucks without the starters playing significant minutes.  I know this is one game but he proves that he can still pile up the assists even without heavy shooters playing alongside him.  What a drastic difference between the Bucks game and the Heat/Atlanta games with and without Rondo.

He continues to amaze me with his playmaking.  It didn't even occur to me that he never attempted a shot (except for that end of the quarter heave maybe?) and that shows how great of a player he is.

The Rose/Deron/Rondo/Paul argument will continue for years but for this season, Rondo belongs in the top 2 or 3, that's for sure.

All due respect to Rondo... he took exactly 1 shot tonight.  None of the other point guards could get away with that.  They have too much responsibility to score.  Rondo isn't capable of scoring on their level, but if Deron or Paul were asked to do nothing, but pass... I'm fairly certain they could drop 15 assists at will too.  It's kinda like when Kobe says, "I could have dropped 50 tonight"... he's probably right.  But Kobe can't just take 40 shots a night every night.  Rondo has the luxury of being almost exclusively a setup guy who only needs to pass the ball.  It's a credit to his teammates ability to hit shots.

Rondo knows his role and it is to be a floor general.  He is carrying that out to a tee.  He's never been on a team where he's been depended on to score, and probably never will be Ainge knows that's where Rondo's strength lies.  He's always going to try to surround him with scorers.  Look at Miami.  They've got all the scorers they need but nobody to efficiently run the offense and dictate who's going to take the shot and who's not getting the passes when they're having an off night.

The Kobe thing has nothing to do with Rondo.  Rondo could score 40 points if he wanted to.  Sure it'd take him 50 shots but he could score 40 if he wanted to.  Deron could have 15 assists if he wanted to but his team is probably going to lose as his scoring is not a factor anymore.

Rondo does 15 assists a game and no points because that's who he is.  He is a point guard and he's doing what he needs to do to win games and that's why he's a top PG in this game this season.  It's not always about the points.

[Employee8]

Rondo with 15 assists last night against the Bucks without the starters playing significant minutes.  I know this is one game but he proves that he can still pile up the assists even without heavy shooters playing alongside him.  What a drastic difference between the Bucks game and the Heat/Atlanta games with and without Rondo.

He continues to amaze me with his playmaking.  It didn't even occur to me that he never attempted a shot (except for that end of the quarter heave maybe?) and that shows how great of a player he is.

The Rose/Deron/Rondo/Paul argument will continue for years but for this season, Rondo belongs in the top 2 or 3, that's for sure.

All due respect to Rondo... he took exactly 1 shot tonight.  None of the other point guards could get away with that.  They have too much responsibility to score.  Rondo isn't capable of scoring on their level, but if Deron or Paul were asked to do nothing, but pass... I'm fairly certain they could drop 15 assists at will too.  It's kinda like when Kobe says, "I could have dropped 50 tonight"... he's probably right.  But Kobe can't just take 40 shots a night every night.  Rondo has the luxury of being almost exclusively a setup guy who only needs to pass the ball.  It's a credit to his teammates ability to hit shots.

Perhaps there should be a new stat called "quality assists" in addition to plain old "assists".  Quality assists include setting up a person for an easy score because of his nifty passes and intelligent ballhandling plays.  An "assist" would be giving the ball to Paul Pierce while he is being well defended but he manages to score anyway.

Pretty sure Rondo's "quality assists" would blow away any other PG's "quality assists" every year.

[CelticG1]

One last thing, his addition took a team with a .439 winning % and changed it to a .609 winning %.  (the team he left went from .561 to .318)

I wouldn't factor that in at all for several reasons.

-The Clippers had 3a key guys last year who were rookies
-They added a ton of new talent

I don't get why players get bonus points for doing something like this when a guy like Rondo just keeps his team at a level of greatness all the time.

Why does Tyson Chandler get more credit for turning the Knicks into a good defensive team yet KG has kept his team at elite defensive levels for several years?

Based on this year alone id go:
1.rondo
2.Westbrook
3.Parker
4.Paul
5. Irving and Nash

Overall best pg's:
1.Paul
2.Rose
3.Rondo
4. Westbrook
5.Williams

[alajet]

Well... first... we're all ranking Rondo high, because of his assists, right?  That's a statistical thing.  It has a lot to do with our system and his role.  That said, it's a fantastic statistical achievement.  Let's take a look at who the top point guards were this year... statistically.  Personally, I'm still a sucker for the efficiency rating.  It's simple, uses traditional stats, Larry Bird used it and my fantasy basketball league bases their scores on it.  Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks ... subtract turnovers, missed shots and missed free throws.  Here's the top statistical point guards this year:

#1 - Chris Paul: 24.5
#2 - Russell Westbrook: 20.5
#3 - Derrick Rose: 20.4
#4 - Deron Williams: 19.4
#5 - Rajon Rondo:  19.3
#6 - Steve Nash: 18.8
#7 - Ty Lawson: 18.6
#8 - John Wall: 18.2
#9 - Kyrie Irving: 17.7
#10 - Kyle Lowrie: 17.5

So statistically speaking, Rondo was in the top 5 this year (up from #8 last year thanks to his huge assist numbers).  If we're asking who I'd take right now if I were starting a team from scratch to compete IMMEDIATELY, my personal rankings would probably look like this (pretending that Rose isn't battling major injuries):

#1 - Chris Paul
#2 - Derrick Rose (had a bad season due to injury.  I think he's overrated, but I have to go with him here.  He was #1 last year statistically)
#3 - Deron Williams (tough situation in Jersey.  He's traditionally been seen as 1b to Paul's 1a on the point guard rankings.  Even with those garbage teammates in Jersey he proved he's still that talented.  He's arguably above Rose depending on who you put next to him.  Elite point guard.
#4 - Rondo (based on my Celtic bias and my Celtic bias alone, I take Rondo 4th.  I might be better off taking Westbrook, though)
#5 - Westbrook (he's too good)

If, however, we're asking who I'd take to build around long-term... I might jump Kyrie Irving up to #4.  What he did at age 19 was RIDICULOUS.  Shoot... If we're factoring in his rookie contract, I probably favor him to Deron as well... I'd stick him 3rd.  

It's funny Westbrook is considered better than even Deron with this list. And Rondo is only marginally better than Lawson.
When the team is in deep trouble, Rondo takes more jumpshots, makes some of them and scores more. So, I don't buy into this Rondo isn't capable of scoring argument that much.
Yeah, for sure, he isn't as good as a scorer compared to the others, but that's far from being a defect. As many times said, when you play alongside hall of famers, patiently setting them up and scoring only occasionally is a lot more efficient.
So, basically, Paul, Williams or whoever else you bring into this squad as a PG won't be scoring 20+ per game. That said, they'll likely surpass Rondo's scoring numbers. Efficiency of team offense? Any kind of prediction will stay as speculation, so, I'll leave it alone for the moment.

[wdleehi]

One last thing, his addition took a team with a .439 winning % and changed it to a .609 winning %.  (the team he left went from .561 to .318)

I wouldn't factor that in at all for several reasons.

-The Clippers had 3a key guys last year who were rookies
-They added a ton of new talent

I don't get why players get bonus points for doing something like this when a guy like Rondo just keeps his team at a level of greatness all the time.

Why does Tyson Chandler get more credit for turning the Knicks into a good defensive team yet KG has kept his team at elite defensive levels for several years?

Based on this year alone id go:
1.rondo
2.Westbrook
3.Parker
4.Paul
5. Irving and Nash

Overall best pg's:
1.Paul
2.Rose
3.Rondo
4. Westbrook
5.Williams

They lost a 20 point SG, a 13 and 7 PG, and a 12 and 7 C. 

They added Paul, 20 games of Billups/Young at the end of the season, and 12 points a game SF.


Basically, they added the top PG to a team, lost an all star level SG and the rest is switching role players. 

[pearljammer10]

This season:
1. Paul
2. Rondo
3. Parker
4. Nash
5. Westbrook

[myteamisbetterthanyours]

Rondo's the best PG imo.  He controls the game like no other point guard in the league.  Paul is a VERY close second. The distance between these two is EXTREMELY small.  Rondo gets the edge because he does more on the court than Paul.. Rebounds, defends, runs faster, gets more assists etc. etc.

More assists, but more TO  (Paul has a better assist to TO ratio.  4.38 compared to 3.15)
Less steals
Lower shooting %



If you are going to compare them looking at stats, look at all the stats.  

Rondo provides 2.5 more assists, and 8 less points a game.  

We are talking about a difference of 2-3 points a game offensively.


On the flip side, if you look at steals and assists in terms of possessions, Rondo gave the other team 1.8 a game (TO - steals), Paul was a -.4 (meaning he creates an extra .4 possession a game)


Again, two guys that are very close.  


One last thing, his addition took a team with a .439 winning % and changed it to a .609 winning %.  (the team he left went from .561 to .318)

Valid points.. Anyway you could look up their head to head stats? I'd love to see how they play against each other.

[CelticG1]

One last thing, his addition took a team with a .439 winning % and changed it to a .609 winning %.  (the team he left went from .561 to .318)

I wouldn't factor that in at all for several reasons.

-The Clippers had 3a key guys last year who were rookies
-They added a ton of new talent

I don't get why players get bonus points for doing something like this when a guy like Rondo just keeps his team at a level of greatness all the time.

Why does Tyson Chandler get more credit for turning the Knicks into a good defensive team yet KG has kept his team at elite defensive levels for several years?

Based on this year alone id go:
1.rondo
2.Westbrook
3.Parker
4.Paul
5. Irving and Nash

Overall best pg's:
1.Paul
2.Rose
3.Rondo
4. Westbrook
5.Williams

They lost a 20 point SG, a 13 and 7 PG, and a 12 and 7 C. 

They added Paul, 20 games of Billups/Young at the end of the season, and 12 points a game SF.


Basically, they added the top PG to a team, lost an all star level SG and the rest is switching role players. 

I just think you swap out Paul with Rondo, Williams,  rose, Westbrook you get similar results.

Just stating those numbers makes it sound better than I actually think it is.

Rondos team has been good for a few years now and this year was pretty close to the same maybe a little worse so it doesn't look impressive. But with the amount of guys injured, guys in and out of the lineup. I just think he can get overlooked.

Bradley is getting credit for turning himself into a legit player, KG is getting credit for resurrecting his career, Bass is getting credit for turning into a legit starter.

I think Rondo deserves a lot of credit for some of these things happening. What he's done for Bass is along the lines of what Paul did for David West a few years ago.

[mgent]

This season:
1. Tony Parker
2. Paul
3. Rondo
4. Williams
5. Westbrook

Overall (where teammates don't come into account):
1a. Deron Williams
1b. Chris Paul
3. Rose
4. Rondo
5. Parker

[wdleehi]

One last thing, his addition took a team with a .439 winning % and changed it to a .609 winning %.  (the team he left went from .561 to .318)

I wouldn't factor that in at all for several reasons.

-The Clippers had 3a key guys last year who were rookies
-They added a ton of new talent

I don't get why players get bonus points for doing something like this when a guy like Rondo just keeps his team at a level of greatness all the time.

Why does Tyson Chandler get more credit for turning the Knicks into a good defensive team yet KG has kept his team at elite defensive levels for several years?

Based on this year alone id go:
1.rondo
2.Westbrook
3.Parker
4.Paul
5. Irving and Nash

Overall best pg's:
1.Paul
2.Rose
3.Rondo
4. Westbrook
5.Williams

They lost a 20 point SG, a 13 and 7 PG, and a 12 and 7 C. 

They added Paul, 20 games of Billups/Young at the end of the season, and 12 points a game SF.


Basically, they added the top PG to a team, lost an all star level SG and the rest is switching role players. 

I just think you swap out Paul with Rondo, Williams,  rose, Westbrook you get similar results.

Just stating those numbers makes it sound better than I actually think it is.

Rondos team has been good for a few years now and this year was pretty close to the same maybe a little worse so it doesn't look impressive. But with the amount of guys injured, guys in and out of the lineup. I just think he can get overlooked.

Bradley is getting credit for turning himself into a legit player, KG is getting credit for resurrecting his career, Bass is getting credit for turning into a legit starter.

I think Rondo deserves a lot of credit for some of these things happening. What he's done for Bass is along the lines of what Paul did for David West a few years ago.

Not necessarily.  Williams, Paul and Rondo would all clearly help Griffin move along as an offensive player, but Williams and Paul would be the two that would take more of the scoring pressure off. 

Rose would take the scoring pressure off, not so sure if his PG skills would help Griffin's development. 

Westbrook would take pressure off, I do not think he would help Griffins development.


Though all would have improved the team.

[snively]

Rondo's floor generalship after the all-star break was really something - the half-court execution in his hands has been amazing.  I can't really rank him because I didn't get to see much of the other PGs this season, but it was a treat to see him.