Metta World Peace / Artest Cheap Shot (merged threads)

[Smitty77]

You are in the VAST minority IP.  72% to 5%.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/04/tell-us-was-metta-world-peace-suspension-a-fair-one/1

Smitty77

[CelticHooligan3]

So your contention is that because he didn't think his actions through he should be punished less severeley? I agree that in the moment he wasn't thinking about the punishment for the crime. But that should have absolutley no bareing on it.

I don't agree. Premeditated violence should be punished harder. 'Crimes of passion', as it were, should be judged more leniently.

He's a repeat offender one. After he did it he almost started a brawl by squaring off with Ibaka. As the person most responsible for the malice in the palace that fact alone should equal games missed.

Disagree with you and agree with JVG. I think what he did to Harden was wrong and merits punishment, but as Ibaka pursued him, he's got a right to get ready to defend himself. He didn't advance on Ibaka, iirc.

Unless you know the guy you have no idea how "he works'. You can assume. Nothing more. The fact is he hit a guy with a dirty cheap elbow. You can tell by his facial reaction and follow through it was on purpose. If you want to contend that fact it would be like saying i didnt punch the guy his face ran into my fist. Its just ridiculous.

You're misconstruing what I'm saying about his intention. And, while techinically you're right, I don't know Artest, but I have seen the guy play, and give interviews, and read analysis of him for what...11 years? 12 years?

And if you think his past history should matter, it should also be noted that if you just look at the guy's career, he's had a careers' worth of poor impulse control, where he is obviously not thinking before he's acting. He's been A LOT better lately, but his worser impulses got the upper hand here. i think that's obvious.

All also add that when you have Bill Plaschke the biggest Lakers homer/writer saying that he got off too easily, it should hit home. Im unsure how to add links but the article was in todays herald. There was no reason to take that long to hand down that sentence. The league was gauging the backlash it would incur for going so light. As i said yesterday. If this is not a clear and blatant sign of laker bias i dont know what is. If perk was still on the team and he pulled this stunt can you honestly say he would receive seven games? Didn't think so..

I think Perkins would also receive 7 games, yes. I think the notion of 'Lakers bias' is silly. I don't know why the league took so long to deliberate, but as I said before, this infraction I saw as about equal to Bynum's body-check of Barea.

I'd say it was not as bad, but Harden is now officially concussed, so its on par.

Contrarian to the max IP. What was the passion part again? Was artest "passionate" about Harden's head and his elbow meeting in unity? I thought that term was reserved for lovers, no? Im sure the lawyers on CB can weigh in on the "passion" aspect here IP.

As for you defending his actions to square off with Ibaka i persoanlly think the guy should have gotten a lifetime ban from the sport after the palace incident. It was black eye on the sport ruined an entire organization for years. Animals like that belong in the streets where he was bore. Not making millions in the best basketball league in the world. Again just my opinion. I just dont think he deserves the privledge.

So the fact he has poor impulse control should be taken into account? Thats bush man. Weak arguement. If he's a man he should be held to to same standards as the rest of his peers period. No one else gets a pass on these issues. And ya the fact he got that pass, to me, shows a clear laker bias in this league.

And i dont know what to say to you if you think Perk would get hit with seven games for that. He breathes on people and they call a foul. They'd throw the book at him in my eyes if he did the same thing.

[indeedproceed]

You are in the VAST minority IP.  72% to 5%.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/04/tell-us-was-metta-world-peace-suspension-a-fair-one/1

Smitty77

I am okay with that. And, I've been wrong before.

Contrarian to the max IP. What was the passion part again? Was artest "passionate" about Harden's head and his elbow meeting in unity? I thought that term was reserved for lovers, no? Im sure the lawyers on CB can weigh in on the "passion" aspect here IP.

What are you talking about? I feel like you're not understanding what I'm saying.

I'm saying Artest just got done with an awesome play. He felt someone in his personal space, and threw and elbow without thinking. It was stupid, impulsive, and regrettable.

As for you defending his actions to square off with Ibaka i persoanlly think the guy should have gotten a lifetime ban from the sport after the palace incident. It was black eye on the sport ruined an entire organization for years. Animals like that belong in the streets where he was bore. Not making millions in the best basketball league in the world. Again just my opinion. I just dont think he deserves the privledge.

'Animals like that belong in the streets where he was born'? Classy.

You know why he belongs in the NBA? Because he's put in the hard work, he's got the talent, and the skill. People don't get to the NBA because they morally deserve it.

Must be that animal instinct he's got. From being born on the street.

So the fact he has poor impulse control should be taken into account? Thats bush man. Weak arguement. If he's a man he should be held to to same standards as the rest of his peers period. No one else gets a pass on these issues. And ya the fact he got that pass, to me, shows a clear laker bias in this league.

At this point I'm positive you're not getting what I'm saying. That's not the point I'm making about impulse control.

Did Artest intend to hurt or injure Harden, or did he act impulsively, without thinking? Or, was it premeditated?

Based on Artest's past behavior, I think its obvious it was not premeditated, and was an impulsive reaction. A dumb, regrettable, unsportsmanlike, and punishable reaction, but an impulsive one.

That merits less punishment than the premeditated action of someone with full understanding of their action. Its true legally and its true here.

And i dont know what to say to you if you think Perk would get hit with seven games for that. He breathes on people and they call a foul. They'd throw the book at him in my eyes if he did the same thing.

I disagree. If Perkins did this, he'd get a similar penalty.

[Donoghus]

Gotta say I agree with Chris Mannix' article this morning (not always the case). 

I think the NBA blew a chance to send a harsh message.  Especially in light of what's going on in the rest of the sports world these days, specifically, the NHL & NFL.  I feel like its, more or less, a slap on the wrist.  I think a playoff ban would've been fair in this instance considering the repeat offender & harshness of the act elements of it.

[fairweatherfan]

Gotta say I agree with Chris Mannix' article this morning (not always the case). 

I think the NBA blew a chance to send a harsh message.  Especially in light of what's going on in the rest of the sports world these days, specifically, the NHL & NFL.  I feel like its, more or less, a slap on the wrist.  I think a playoff ban would've been fair in this instance considering the repeat offender & harshness of the act elements of it.

That's my take.  I don't think 7 games was egregiously low - I think it'd be just about right for a first offense - but given Artest's history I think the league had every leeway to smack this down hard.  15 games or the rest of this season, whichever is longer, seems suitable to me. 

Instead, we're facing a situation where Artest will come back just in time to play the team he seriously weakened with his cheap shot.  Which, regardless of the fairness of the penalty, will be embarrassing for the league and a competitive disadvantage for the Thunder.

[Chelm]

Animals like that belong in the streets where he was bore. Not making millions in the best basketball league in the world.

I'm sure it wasn't your intent to to portray yourself as a racist, but black people have been likened to animals throughout history and I think it's a metaphor you should avoid.  Plus, the class warfare you're invoking doesn't seem much less offensive.

So the fact he has poor impulse control should be taken into account?

Our legal system does, why shouldn't the NBA?

He breathes on people and they call a foul. They'd throw the book at him in my eyes if he did the same thing.

I think 7 games is fair.  That's a pretty harsh punishment.  Rodman got 11 for intentionally stomping on a cameraman's genitals and I believe Maxwell got around the same for knocking out a fan.  Do you think what MWP did was worse?

[slamtheking]

7 games is a farce.

I'd consider suspension for the rest of this year including playoffs and half of next season as well with all pay for those games forfeited.  That swing, premeditated or not, was done with as much force as he could muster and it was directed right at Harden's head.  Artest did not swing low -- he raised his elbow up to clear Harden's shoulder and make head contact.

Stern is an embarrassment as a disciplinarian.

[Chelm]

7 games is a farce.

I'd consider suspension for the rest of this year including playoffs and half of next season as well with all pay for those games forfeited.  That swing, premeditated or not, was done with as much force as he could muster and it was directed right at Harden's head.  Artest did not swing low -- he raised his elbow up to clear Harden's shoulder and make head contact.

Stern is an embarrassment as a disciplinarian.

Precedent matters.  Stern shouldn't merely go by gut feeling when doling out punishment.  Compare this with the other 50+ game suspensions in NBA history and tell me this is equivalent to those.

[wdleehi]

6 possible playoff games.



What is the most playoff games a player was ever suspended for in an incident that only effected players?

[fairweatherfan]

7 games is a farce.

I'd consider suspension for the rest of this year including playoffs and half of next season as well with all pay for those games forfeited.  That swing, premeditated or not, was done with as much force as he could muster and it was directed right at Harden's head.  Artest did not swing low -- he raised his elbow up to clear Harden's shoulder and make head contact.

Stern is an embarrassment as a disciplinarian.

Precedent matters.  Stern shouldn't merely go by gut feeling when doling out punishment.  Compare this with the other 50+ game suspensions in NBA history and tell me this is equivalent to those.

Yeah, this is a big part of why, while I'd prefer a harsher punishment, I'm not outraged at the 7.  People aren't really asking Stern to throw the book at Artest, they're asking him to rewrite it, then throw that new, heavier book at him. 

[CelticHooligan3]

Animals like that belong in the streets where he was bore. Not making millions in the best basketball league in the world.

I'm sure it wasn't your intent to to portray yourself as a racist, but black people have been likened to animals throughout history and I think it's a metaphor you should avoid.  Plus, the class warfare you're invoking doesn't seem much less offensive.

So the fact he has poor impulse control should be taken into account?

Our legal system does, why shouldn't the NBA?

He breathes on people and they call a foul. They'd throw the book at him in my eyes if he did the same thing.

I think 7 games is fair.  That's a pretty harsh punishment.  Rodman got 11 for intentionally stomping on a cameraman's genitals and I believe Maxwell got around the same for knocking out a fan.  Do you think what MWP did was worse?

Animals is a metaphor i shouldnt use? Says who? You? Dont care bro. Your the one bringing the race card up not me. Any person regardless of skin tone can be considered an animal. Hitler was an animal. If your sensitive to that word thats your own deep rooted insecurites. This is the problem now a days. The PC police always have to show up and pass judgement on people when they have no idea what theyre even talking about. Or where the other person is coming from. Typical.

And IP it might not be classy but neither is throwing an elbow to a mans head who never even saw it coming. I call um how i see um. And ya hes an animal. Regardless of his skin tone. He belongs in an institution or the streets where he came from. That was a cheap shot and has no place in basketball. Its one thing if your face to face with a man. At least he sees it coming and its somewhat fair. But you cold clock a guy whos waiting for the inbounds pass? Nah, thats unforgivable with his record in my eyes and i dont beleive he should be in the league. If youve ever played basketball and caught an elbow like that and it resulted in a concussion i think both of you would have a different opinion. Just sayin..

[Fafnir]

Shut it down on the animal and class discussions they don't belong here period. No further use or discussion of the incident using those terms.

[slamtheking]

7 games is a farce.

I'd consider suspension for the rest of this year including playoffs and half of next season as well with all pay for those games forfeited.  That swing, premeditated or not, was done with as much force as he could muster and it was directed right at Harden's head.  Artest did not swing low -- he raised his elbow up to clear Harden's shoulder and make head contact.

Stern is an embarrassment as a disciplinarian.

Precedent matters.  Stern shouldn't merely go by gut feeling when doling out punishment.  Compare this with the other 50+ game suspensions in NBA history and tell me this is equivalent to those.

I'm not big on precedent.  just because something was done a certain way previously doesn't mean that made sense or was right.  I'm more for making a smart interpretation of what occurred and issuing punishment based on that.

In terms of precedent, I believe a player's previous behavior and actions should play a part in the punishment.

In this particular case, Artest has a long history of of excessive force (including climbing into the stands in Detroit) and lashed out with extreme force, at a player he knew was there and had no justification for lashing out whatsoever.  Add in the fact that Harden suffered a severe injury (concussion) that will impact his season and possibly his career (in a worst case scenario), Artest set a new level of misbehavior that needs to be dealt with severely.

[Fafnir]

Should Shaq have been removed from the league after his attempted sucker punch on Brad Miller?

Should Howard be gone from the league after his attempted elbow of Sam Dalembert?

As bad as Artest's action was there is no way he should be done playing NBA ball forever. I'd be shocked if most big men haven't thrown similar cheap shot elbows high at some point of their careers. I'm all for giving Artest a long suspension (which he recieved) but being gone from the league is a massive overeaction.

[CelticHooligan3]

Should Shaq have been removed from the league after his attempted sucker punch on Brad Miller?

Should Howard be gone from the league after his attempted elbow of Sam Dalembert?

As bad as Artest's action was there is no way he should be done playing NBA ball forever. I'd be shocked if most big men haven't thrown similar cheap shot elbows high at some point of their careers. I'm all for giving Artest a long suspension (which he recieved) but being gone from the league is a massive overeaction.

To be fair from what i know im the only one calling for the guy to be kicked out of the league. You dont need to lump in others with me because they have similar arguements. Its just my personal opinion that he should have been gone after the malice in the palace.

And of all those guys you mentioned above none of them have the same history as Artest. When does it become too much? He's not a kid. He's a grown man. He's clearly showing that none of the past incidents have taught him anything. So do we wait until he seriously injures someone more? Is a concussion on the injury scale not good enough for you? What would make you say ok your right this guy needs to not be in the league anymore, a death perhaps? Maybe that should be what he's judged on. Thats better. Homicide. He hasn't killed anyone yet. Let's not rush to judgement.