What sort of package would it take to get into the top 5 of the draft?

[CFAN38]

First off

Robinson is a glorified Glen Davis. Not enough hops to succeed in the league. Not interested in him at all.

Have you ever watched him play?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmzwMeQy5o0


That aside instead of trying to get into the top 5, I would be thrilled for the Cs to move both picks and JJJ to get sullinger (prob 9-12).

[Eja117]

I'd like to think maybe JJJ, Etwaun Moore, the 2 1s, the 2, and next year's picks could maybe do it. That's like 3 years of picks

[wdleehi]

It would likely take both 1st, a future 1st, Bradley, JJJ, and taking back a really bad contract....



if the other team is a terrible run franchise.  

[Fafnir]

Say all 4 picks for MKG and I'm in for it. Can't see it happening, though.

No way. MKG is good, but that is just a lousy rip off.
4 picks for MKG and Kaman or 4 picks for MKG and Gordon.
If they are really greedy for draft picks we can pull off a: 4 picks for MKG, Kaman and Gordon, but I don't think so.

No way you're getting Gordon alongside MKG with 4 picks. You basically take the only two building blocks they (would) have and give them four draft picks. Can't see why Hornets should be into this.
Maybe just for getting rid of Kaman, they'd agree. And I seriously doubt it.

No matter how good he is, no single player is worth 2 first round and 2 second round picks.

Plenty of players are.

A talent like LeBron/Melo/Wade/Bosh/Duncan/Howard/etc are all easily worth that much. Especially if you expect to be good and the picks to be out of the lottery.

When you look at it from today's perspective, yes. But you can never know when it comes to young players in the draft. Greg Oden was one of the best prospects in the country, and look what happened to him. Portland couldn't have known of course, but mistakes like that teach GMs to be more careful in the future.

And besides, the NBA is a whole different world. A lot of second round players have turned out better than first rounders. Just look at Isaiah Thomas and Jimmer. Some rooks just can't cope with the pressure and some can. Some develop in the later years, like Avery Bradley, and some never do. That's why giving 3 or 4 picks for a single player is a great and unneeded risk for any team.

A prospect of Oden's, LeBron's, Dwight's, Durant's, Davis's potential is easily worth that much.

Even a more ordinary top 5 prospect, (Cousins, Horford, etc.), is worth two low first round picks (and nearly any number of 2nd round picks).

Quality > Quantity.

[Eja117]

Say all 4 picks for MKG and I'm in for it. Can't see it happening, though.

No way. MKG is good, but that is just a lousy rip off.
4 picks for MKG and Kaman or 4 picks for MKG and Gordon.
If they are really greedy for draft picks we can pull off a: 4 picks for MKG, Kaman and Gordon, but I don't think so.

No way you're getting Gordon alongside MKG with 4 picks. You basically take the only two building blocks they (would) have and give them four draft picks. Can't see why Hornets should be into this.
Maybe just for getting rid of Kaman, they'd agree. And I seriously doubt it.

No matter how good he is, no single player is worth 2 first round and 2 second round picks.

Plenty of players are.

A talent like LeBron/Melo/Wade/Bosh/Duncan/Howard/etc are all easily worth that much. Especially if you expect to be good and the picks to be out of the lottery.

When you look at it from today's perspective, yes. But you can never know when it comes to young players in the draft. Greg Oden was one of the best prospects in the country, and look what happened to him. Portland couldn't have known of course, but mistakes like that teach GMs to be more careful in the future.

And besides, the NBA is a whole different world. A lot of second round players have turned out better than first rounders. Just look at Isaiah Thomas and Jimmer. Some rooks just can't cope with the pressure and some can. Some develop in the later years, like Avery Bradley, and some never do. That's why giving 3 or 4 picks for a single player is a great and unneeded risk for any team.

A prospect of Oden's, LeBron's, Dwight's, Durant's, Davis's potential is easily worth that much.

Even a more ordinary top 5 prospect, (Cousins, Horford, etc.), is worth two low first round picks (and nearly any number of 2nd round picks).

Quality > Quantity.

But this is the thing...I'm not so sure a Horford is worth lots of picks.  Is a borderline all star - or even a consistent all-star like maybe Joe Johnson - worth all those picks? I mean when you think about where guys are drafted and what you can get....let's say Marshon Brooks, Delonte, Steamer, Avery Bradley, and 2nd rounder du jour like Gomes or a Euro to leave over there like say Goran Dragic or Semih?

I mean the Hawks are a great example. Tons of top picks. Marvin Williams, Horford, Shelden Williams, Acie Law

To me the guys that make that team good are Teague and Josh Smith and they were lower picks.  And Joe Johnson. 

I'm not saying you should draft low, but to me top picks (other than can't missers like Oden/Davis/etc) aren't the equivalent of QBs in football or top pitchers in baseball.

I think depth is also very important and having extra chances to draft well

[wdleehi]

A prospect of Oden's, LeBron's, Dwight's, Durant's, Davis's potential is easily worth that much.

Even a more ordinary top 5 prospect, (Cousins, Horford, etc.), is worth two low first round picks (and nearly any number of 2nd round picks).

Quality > Quantity.

But this is the thing...I'm not so sure a Horford is worth lots of picks.  Is a borderline all star - or even a consistent all-star like maybe Joe Johnson - worth all those picks? I mean when you think about where guys are drafted and what you can get....let's say Marshon Brooks, Delonte, Steamer, Avery Bradley, and 2nd rounder du jour like Gomes or a Euro to leave over there like say Goran Dragic or Semih?

I mean the Hawks are a great example. Tons of top picks. Marvin Williams, Horford, Shelden Williams, Acie Law

To me the guys that make that team good are Teague and Josh Smith and they were lower picks.  And Joe Johnson.  

I'm not saying you should draft low, but to me top picks (other than can't missers like Oden/Davis/etc) aren't the equivalent of QBs in football or top pitchers in baseball.

I think depth is also very important and having extra chances to draft well

Quality is always more important the quantity in the NBA.  This is a star driven league.  


In terms of draft picks, yes, teams can get quality later in the draft, but it is more likely to get it early in the draft.  That's why teams "tank".  


And yes, Hortford is worth a lot of picks.  I would say yes right now if the Celtics could get him for both 1sts, Bradley, JJJ and a future 1st.  

[pearljammer10]

Probably nothing that we could offer.

[Fafnir]

Say all 4 picks for MKG and I'm in for it. Can't see it happening, though.

No way. MKG is good, but that is just a lousy rip off.
4 picks for MKG and Kaman or 4 picks for MKG and Gordon.
If they are really greedy for draft picks we can pull off a: 4 picks for MKG, Kaman and Gordon, but I don't think so.

No way you're getting Gordon alongside MKG with 4 picks. You basically take the only two building blocks they (would) have and give them four draft picks. Can't see why Hornets should be into this.
Maybe just for getting rid of Kaman, they'd agree. And I seriously doubt it.

No matter how good he is, no single player is worth 2 first round and 2 second round picks.

Plenty of players are.

A talent like LeBron/Melo/Wade/Bosh/Duncan/Howard/etc are all easily worth that much. Especially if you expect to be good and the picks to be out of the lottery.

When you look at it from today's perspective, yes. But you can never know when it comes to young players in the draft. Greg Oden was one of the best prospects in the country, and look what happened to him. Portland couldn't have known of course, but mistakes like that teach GMs to be more careful in the future.

And besides, the NBA is a whole different world. A lot of second round players have turned out better than first rounders. Just look at Isaiah Thomas and Jimmer. Some rooks just can't cope with the pressure and some can. Some develop in the later years, like Avery Bradley, and some never do. That's why giving 3 or 4 picks for a single player is a great and unneeded risk for any team.

A prospect of Oden's, LeBron's, Dwight's, Durant's, Davis's potential is easily worth that much.

Even a more ordinary top 5 prospect, (Cousins, Horford, etc.), is worth two low first round picks (and nearly any number of 2nd round picks).

Quality > Quantity.

But this is the thing...I'm not so sure a Horford is worth lots of picks.  Is a borderline all star - or even a consistent all-star like maybe Joe Johnson - worth all those picks? I mean when you think about where guys are drafted and what you can get....let's say Marshon Brooks, Delonte, Steamer, Avery Bradley, and 2nd rounder du jour like Gomes or a Euro to leave over there like say Goran Dragic or Semih?

I mean the Hawks are a great example. Tons of top picks. Marvin Williams, Horford, Shelden Williams, Acie Law

To me the guys that make that team good are Teague and Josh Smith and they were lower picks.  And Joe Johnson.  

I'm not saying you should draft low, but to me top picks (other than can't missers like Oden/Davis/etc) aren't the equivalent of QBs in football or top pitchers in baseball.

I think depth is also very important and having extra chances to draft well

The average top 5 guy is a borderline all-star, the average low round player is a backup, the average second round pick is barely on a NBA roster.

A borderline all-star is absolutely worth two backups and two fringe roster guys.

Sure there are misses and its killer to miss with a high pick, but overall you take your chance because you need talent to win.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Man, you guys are still sleeping on AB! I hope DA isn't!

[clover]

I see the big quality breaks in this draft after the first 2, 9, 14 and 20, with 2 and 14 being the biggest ones.  So if I'm Danny I'm probably not investing to get higher than about 14--or 9 at the highest.

[Moranis]

Man, you guys are still sleeping on AB! I hope DA isn't!

AB is undersized and has had multiple knee injuries.  He can play well at times, but there is no way AB is anything more than a bit starter and solid 6th man type player.  If he was a few inches bigger, then sure, he would be a potential all star, but undersized guys are role players for a reason.  

[Eja117]

Say all 4 picks for MKG and I'm in for it. Can't see it happening, though.

No way. MKG is good, but that is just a lousy rip off.
4 picks for MKG and Kaman or 4 picks for MKG and Gordon.
If they are really greedy for draft picks we can pull off a: 4 picks for MKG, Kaman and Gordon, but I don't think so.

No way you're getting Gordon alongside MKG with 4 picks. You basically take the only two building blocks they (would) have and give them four draft picks. Can't see why Hornets should be into this.
Maybe just for getting rid of Kaman, they'd agree. And I seriously doubt it.

No matter how good he is, no single player is worth 2 first round and 2 second round picks.

Plenty of players are.

A talent like LeBron/Melo/Wade/Bosh/Duncan/Howard/etc are all easily worth that much. Especially if you expect to be good and the picks to be out of the lottery.

When you look at it from today's perspective, yes. But you can never know when it comes to young players in the draft. Greg Oden was one of the best prospects in the country, and look what happened to him. Portland couldn't have known of course, but mistakes like that teach GMs to be more careful in the future.

And besides, the NBA is a whole different world. A lot of second round players have turned out better than first rounders. Just look at Isaiah Thomas and Jimmer. Some rooks just can't cope with the pressure and some can. Some develop in the later years, like Avery Bradley, and some never do. That's why giving 3 or 4 picks for a single player is a great and unneeded risk for any team.

A prospect of Oden's, LeBron's, Dwight's, Durant's, Davis's potential is easily worth that much.

Even a more ordinary top 5 prospect, (Cousins, Horford, etc.), is worth two low first round picks (and nearly any number of 2nd round picks).

Quality > Quantity.

But this is the thing...I'm not so sure a Horford is worth lots of picks.  Is a borderline all star - or even a consistent all-star like maybe Joe Johnson - worth all those picks? I mean when you think about where guys are drafted and what you can get....let's say Marshon Brooks, Delonte, Steamer, Avery Bradley, and 2nd rounder du jour like Gomes or a Euro to leave over there like say Goran Dragic or Semih?

I mean the Hawks are a great example. Tons of top picks. Marvin Williams, Horford, Shelden Williams, Acie Law

To me the guys that make that team good are Teague and Josh Smith and they were lower picks.  And Joe Johnson.  

I'm not saying you should draft low, but to me top picks (other than can't missers like Oden/Davis/etc) aren't the equivalent of QBs in football or top pitchers in baseball.

I think depth is also very important and having extra chances to draft well

The average top 5 guy is a borderline all-star, the average low round player is a backup, the average second round pick is barely on a NBA roster.

A borderline all-star is absolutely worth two backups and two fringe roster guys.

Sure there are misses and its killer to miss with a high pick, but overall you take your chance because you need talent to win.

I agree, but let me say this slightly differently.

A better example might be the Thunder. Totally built on high picks. Durant, Harden, Westbrook, and to a lesser extent Jeff Green. They hit on every single one.  Too bad they whiffed on Cole Aldrich, Reggie Jackson (for now), and Eric Maynor is hurt.  I can't think of any 2nd rounders with them either.

Would they be better off going forward with Harden or Avery, JJJ, Steamer, Etwaun (who I think could give Reggie and Maynor some competition), and the two number 1s? I think that's something they'd have to think about.  At the very least I could see someone saying Harden is a proven guy so absolutely not, but for the current draft where nobody is proven and some of these guys have shown something I think that's different

[CelticG1]

Man, you guys are still sleeping on AB! I hope DA isn't!

AB is undersized and has had multiple knee injuries.  He can play well at times, but there is no way AB is anything more than a bit starter and solid 6th man type player.  If he was a few inches bigger, then sure, he would be a potential all star, but undersized guys are role players for a reason.  

Ha multiple knee injuries?  I didn't know he ever had 1.   When did he get those injuries when he was like 12?

Size is completely overrated in the league today, especially when you are talking about anyone other than a center

[Eja117]

A prospect of Oden's, LeBron's, Dwight's, Durant's, Davis's potential is easily worth that much.

Even a more ordinary top 5 prospect, (Cousins, Horford, etc.), is worth two low first round picks (and nearly any number of 2nd round picks).

Quality > Quantity.

But this is the thing...I'm not so sure a Horford is worth lots of picks.  Is a borderline all star - or even a consistent all-star like maybe Joe Johnson - worth all those picks? I mean when you think about where guys are drafted and what you can get....let's say Marshon Brooks, Delonte, Steamer, Avery Bradley, and 2nd rounder du jour like Gomes or a Euro to leave over there like say Goran Dragic or Semih?

I mean the Hawks are a great example. Tons of top picks. Marvin Williams, Horford, Shelden Williams, Acie Law

To me the guys that make that team good are Teague and Josh Smith and they were lower picks.  And Joe Johnson.  

I'm not saying you should draft low, but to me top picks (other than can't missers like Oden/Davis/etc) aren't the equivalent of QBs in football or top pitchers in baseball.

I think depth is also very important and having extra chances to draft well

Quality is always more important the quantity in the NBA.  This is a star driven league.  


In terms of draft picks, yes, teams can get quality later in the draft, but it is more likely to get it early in the draft.  That's why teams "tank".  


And yes, Hortford is worth a lot of picks.  I would say yes right now if the Celtics could get him for both 1sts, Bradley, JJJ and a future 1st.  

yeah, but sometimes you get quality through quantity. 

Quality is the term and quality doesn't equal to high picks. They aren't the same. If all it took were high picks then by that theory I guess the Hawks would be the best team in the league and the Clippers would have been good a looooonnnggg time ago.  It's what you do with the picks to some degree.  In same cases high picks evvvvvvveeeeennttuuallly paid off like the Timberwolves, and to a lesser degree the Clippers.

Look at the champs.  More of a quantity thing there.  There's just more than one way to get quality is what I'm saying

[Eja117]

One has to admit that if the Thunder were to trade Harden this off season for Bradley and Steamer alone their defense both inside and outside would get a lot better and with the other draft picks they might not even lose that much fire power. It's hard to win a ring with 5 guys. You need the Derek Fishers of the world too.  Granted Thabo is a very good defender, but you know what I mean. I'm not saying the Thunder should do it, but they may want to consider it