What sort of package would it take to get into the top 5 of the draft?

[clover]

A prospect of Oden's, LeBron's, Dwight's, Durant's, Davis's potential is easily worth that much.

Even a more ordinary top 5 prospect, (Cousins, Horford, etc.), is worth two low first round picks (and nearly any number of 2nd round picks).

Quality > Quantity.

But this is the thing...I'm not so sure a Horford is worth lots of picks.  Is a borderline all star - or even a consistent all-star like maybe Joe Johnson - worth all those picks? I mean when you think about where guys are drafted and what you can get....let's say Marshon Brooks, Delonte, Steamer, Avery Bradley, and 2nd rounder du jour like Gomes or a Euro to leave over there like say Goran Dragic or Semih?

I mean the Hawks are a great example. Tons of top picks. Marvin Williams, Horford, Shelden Williams, Acie Law

To me the guys that make that team good are Teague and Josh Smith and they were lower picks.  And Joe Johnson.  

I'm not saying you should draft low, but to me top picks (other than can't missers like Oden/Davis/etc) aren't the equivalent of QBs in football or top pitchers in baseball.

I think depth is also very important and having extra chances to draft well

Quality is always more important the quantity in the NBA.  This is a star driven league.  


In terms of draft picks, yes, teams can get quality later in the draft, but it is more likely to get it early in the draft.  That's why teams "tank".  


And yes, Hortford is worth a lot of picks.  I would say yes right now if the Celtics could get him for both 1sts, Bradley, JJJ and a future 1st.  

yeah, but sometimes you get quality through quantity. 

Quality is the term and quality doesn't equal to high picks. They aren't the same. If all it took were high picks then by that theory I guess the Hawks would be the best team in the league and the Clippers would have been good a looooonnnggg time ago.  It's what you do with the picks to some degree.  In same cases high picks evvvvvvveeeeennttuuallly paid off like the Timberwolves, and to a lesser degree the Clippers.

Look at the champs.  More of a quantity thing there.  There's just more than one way to get quality is what I'm saying

You also need a smart GM.  Sam Presti says hello.

[Eja117]

A prospect of Oden's, LeBron's, Dwight's, Durant's, Davis's potential is easily worth that much.

Even a more ordinary top 5 prospect, (Cousins, Horford, etc.), is worth two low first round picks (and nearly any number of 2nd round picks).

Quality > Quantity.

But this is the thing...I'm not so sure a Horford is worth lots of picks.  Is a borderline all star - or even a consistent all-star like maybe Joe Johnson - worth all those picks? I mean when you think about where guys are drafted and what you can get....let's say Marshon Brooks, Delonte, Steamer, Avery Bradley, and 2nd rounder du jour like Gomes or a Euro to leave over there like say Goran Dragic or Semih?

I mean the Hawks are a great example. Tons of top picks. Marvin Williams, Horford, Shelden Williams, Acie Law

To me the guys that make that team good are Teague and Josh Smith and they were lower picks.  And Joe Johnson.  

I'm not saying you should draft low, but to me top picks (other than can't missers like Oden/Davis/etc) aren't the equivalent of QBs in football or top pitchers in baseball.

I think depth is also very important and having extra chances to draft well

Quality is always more important the quantity in the NBA.  This is a star driven league.  


In terms of draft picks, yes, teams can get quality later in the draft, but it is more likely to get it early in the draft.  That's why teams "tank".  


And yes, Hortford is worth a lot of picks.  I would say yes right now if the Celtics could get him for both 1sts, Bradley, JJJ and a future 1st.  

yeah, but sometimes you get quality through quantity.  

Quality is the term and quality doesn't equal to high picks. They aren't the same. If all it took were high picks then by that theory I guess the Hawks would be the best team in the league and the Clippers would have been good a looooonnnggg time ago.  It's what you do with the picks to some degree.  In same cases high picks evvvvvvveeeeennttuuallly paid off like the Timberwolves, and to a lesser degree the Clippers.

Look at the champs.  More of a quantity thing there.  There's just more than one way to get quality is what I'm saying

You also need a smart GM.  Sam Presti says hello.

I don't blame anyone for thinking Presti is good, but I also think he got very lucky multiple times.  Lucky he won the lottery. Lucky he got Durant and not Oden. Lucky he traded Jeff Green right before that guy fell off a cliff. Lucky his top picks all panned out. Lucky he got Harden, instead of maybe Thabeet. Lucky Durant resigned instead of pulling a Melo or Bron. In ex amount of years OK City could be the next Sacramento.

Hello Sam Presti

He's not perfect. Coulda had Marshon Brooks one pick later, but he went with Reggie Jackson.

He had the 11th, 18th and 26th picks in 2010...came away with Cole Aldrich, Eric Bledsoe, and Quincy Pondexter. In 2009 he picked Rodrigue Beaubois. Coulda had Taj Gibson one pick later or DeJuan Blair or Chase Budinger

[CFAN38]

AB is undersized and has had multiple knee injuries.  He can play well at times, but there is no way AB is anything more than a bit starter and solid 6th man type player.  If he was a few inches bigger, then sure, he would be a potential all star, but undersized guys are role players for a reason.

I think you where thinking of TA not AB.

This year was essentially ABs rookie year and he is still only 21. His per 40min averages are 14pts 3.5 rebounds 2.5 assists and 1.3 stls while shooting 40% from 3.

D Wade at 21..per 40min 18pts 5rb   4 assists 30% from 3
M Ellis at 21..         19pts 3.5rb 5 assists 27% from 3
Rip Hamilton at 21      19pts 4 rb  3 assists

Now Wade is a super star and Ellis and Hamilton have both been solid allstars. All 3 of these players have been first option scorers on there teams, a role that I never see avery being put in. Avery is a better defender then either monta or hamilton.

Next year Avery will be 22year old and the Cs starting shooting guard. I completely expect him to average 15-16 pts a game while being a 3rd or 4th option and playing exceptional defense. By the time he starts hitting his prime 24-31 I wouldn't call it a stretch to predict that Avery is at least a fringe allstar and a consisted 1st or 2nd team all defensive player. More then just a "bit starter".

[wdleehi]

A prospect of Oden's, LeBron's, Dwight's, Durant's, Davis's potential is easily worth that much.

Even a more ordinary top 5 prospect, (Cousins, Horford, etc.), is worth two low first round picks (and nearly any number of 2nd round picks).

Quality > Quantity.

But this is the thing...I'm not so sure a Horford is worth lots of picks.  Is a borderline all star - or even a consistent all-star like maybe Joe Johnson - worth all those picks? I mean when you think about where guys are drafted and what you can get....let's say Marshon Brooks, Delonte, Steamer, Avery Bradley, and 2nd rounder du jour like Gomes or a Euro to leave over there like say Goran Dragic or Semih?

I mean the Hawks are a great example. Tons of top picks. Marvin Williams, Horford, Shelden Williams, Acie Law

To me the guys that make that team good are Teague and Josh Smith and they were lower picks.  And Joe Johnson.  

I'm not saying you should draft low, but to me top picks (other than can't missers like Oden/Davis/etc) aren't the equivalent of QBs in football or top pitchers in baseball.

I think depth is also very important and having extra chances to draft well

Quality is always more important the quantity in the NBA.  This is a star driven league.  


In terms of draft picks, yes, teams can get quality later in the draft, but it is more likely to get it early in the draft.  That's why teams "tank".  


And yes, Hortford is worth a lot of picks.  I would say yes right now if the Celtics could get him for both 1sts, Bradley, JJJ and a future 1st.  

yeah, but sometimes you get quality through quantity. 

Quality is the term and quality doesn't equal to high picks. They aren't the same. If all it took were high picks then by that theory I guess the Hawks would be the best team in the league and the Clippers would have been good a looooonnnggg time ago.  It's what you do with the picks to some degree.  In same cases high picks evvvvvvveeeeennttuuallly paid off like the Timberwolves, and to a lesser degree the Clippers.

Look at the champs.  More of a quantity thing there.  There's just more than one way to get quality is what I'm saying

You also need a smart GM.  Sam Presti says hello.

He has a quantity of quality picks.

[indeedproceed]

A better example might be the Thunder. Totally built on high picks. Durant, Harden, Westbrook, and to a lesser extent Jeff Green. They hit on every single one.  Too bad they whiffed on Cole Aldrich, Reggie Jackson (for now), and Eric Maynor is hurt.  I can't think of any 2nd rounders with them either.

I think the (for now) part of that is crucial. Aldrich and Jackson both have unfortunate situations of just not being the players the Thunder need right now, despite both having a pretty good potential to be players that they'll want in a year or two.

The problem is that the Thunder already have a guy who isn't quite a pg and isn't quite a SG, who already plays 40 mins a game. They don't need what Reggie Jackson is bringing to the table right now, they need leadership (and honestly, Eric Maynor), poise, stuff Derrick Fisher was supposed to provide (but doesnt).

And Cole Aldrich is basically the product of a top-secret Nick Collison cloning program.

Would they be better off going forward with Harden or Avery, JJJ, Steamer, Etwaun (who I think could give Reggie and Maynor some competition), and the two number 1s? I think that's something they'd have to think about.  At the very least I could see someone saying Harden is a proven guy so absolutely not, but for the current draft where nobody is proven and some of these guys have shown something I think that's different

Whoa, whoa...I mean...I just posted this in the other thread, but James Harden >>> Avery Bradley. James Harden is the 3rd or 4th best shooting guard in the league right now, and that's without factoring in his beard. No way does AB and our bench produce more than that.

[Moranis]

Man, you guys are still sleeping on AB! I hope DA isn't!

AB is undersized and has had multiple knee injuries.  He can play well at times, but there is no way AB is anything more than a bit starter and solid 6th man type player.  If he was a few inches bigger, then sure, he would be a potential all star, but undersized guys are role players for a reason.  

Ha multiple knee injuries?  I didn't know he ever had 1.   When did he get those injuries when he was like 12?

Size is completely overrated in the league today, especially when you are talking about anyone other than a center

He had surgery on his knee right after the Celtics drafted him.  I thought it was common knowledge that Bradley has had a history of knee issues.

[Moranis]

AB is undersized and has had multiple knee injuries.  He can play well at times, but there is no way AB is anything more than a bit starter and solid 6th man type player.  If he was a few inches bigger, then sure, he would be a potential all star, but undersized guys are role players for a reason.

I think you where thinking of TA not AB.

This year was essentially ABs rookie year and he is still only 21. His per 40min averages are 14pts 3.5 rebounds 2.5 assists and 1.3 stls while shooting 40% from 3.

D Wade at 21..per 40min 18pts 5rb   4 assists 30% from 3
M Ellis at 21..         19pts 3.5rb 5 assists 27% from 3
Rip Hamilton at 21      19pts 4 rb  3 assists

Now Wade is a super star and Ellis and Hamilton have both been solid allstars. All 3 of these players have been first option scorers on there teams, a role that I never see avery being put in. Avery is a better defender then either monta or hamilton.

Next year Avery will be 22year old and the Cs starting shooting guard. I completely expect him to average 15-16 pts a game while being a 3rd or 4th option and playing exceptional defense. By the time he starts hitting his prime 24-31 I wouldn't call it a stretch to predict that Avery is at least a fringe allstar and a consisted 1st or 2nd team all defensive player. More then just a "bit starter".

Wade and Hamilton have legit size and Ellis is a much better ball handler (and is still bigger than AB).

And since you brought him up, Tony Allen's per 40 numbers were better than Avery Bradley's his rookie year.  Now granted Allen was 23, but he also has more legit size.  And it wasn't like Allen wasn't getting minutes as he started 34 of his 77 games.

Avery Bradley will be lucky to have the career of Tony Allen.  

[clover]

AB is undersized and has had multiple knee injuries.  He can play well at times, but there is no way AB is anything more than a bit starter and solid 6th man type player.  If he was a few inches bigger, then sure, he would be a potential all star, but undersized guys are role players for a reason.

I think you where thinking of TA not AB.

This year was essentially ABs rookie year and he is still only 21. His per 40min averages are 14pts 3.5 rebounds 2.5 assists and 1.3 stls while shooting 40% from 3.

D Wade at 21..per 40min 18pts 5rb   4 assists 30% from 3
M Ellis at 21..         19pts 3.5rb 5 assists 27% from 3
Rip Hamilton at 21      19pts 4 rb  3 assists

Now Wade is a super star and Ellis and Hamilton have both been solid allstars. All 3 of these players have been first option scorers on there teams, a role that I never see avery being put in. Avery is a better defender then either monta or hamilton.

Next year Avery will be 22year old and the Cs starting shooting guard. I completely expect him to average 15-16 pts a game while being a 3rd or 4th option and playing exceptional defense. By the time he starts hitting his prime 24-31 I wouldn't call it a stretch to predict that Avery is at least a fringe allstar and a consisted 1st or 2nd team all defensive player. More then just a "bit starter".

Wade and Hamilton have legit size and Ellis is a much better ball handler (and is still bigger than AB).

And since you brought him up, Tony Allen's per 40 numbers were better than Avery Bradley's his rookie year.  Now granted Allen was 23, but he also has more legit size.  And it wasn't like Allen wasn't getting minutes as he started 34 of his 77 games.

Avery Bradley will be lucky to have the career of Tony Allen.  

TA was drafted at age 22 1/2, not 19 1/2.  Do you really want to compare Tony's year at Wabash Valley to Bradley's second year with the C's?

[Boris Badenov]

I don't blame anyone for thinking Presti is good, but I also think he got very lucky multiple times.  Lucky he won the lottery. Lucky he got Durant and not Oden. Lucky he traded Jeff Green right before that guy fell off a cliff. Lucky his top picks all panned out. Lucky he got Harden, instead of maybe Thabeet. Lucky Durant resigned instead of pulling a Melo or Bron. In ex amount of years OK City could be the next Sacramento.

He's not perfect. Coulda had Marshon Brooks one pick later, but he went with Reggie Jackson.

He had the 11th, 18th and 26th picks in 2010...came away with Cole Aldrich, Eric Bledsoe, and Quincy Pondexter. In 2009 he picked Rodrigue Beaubois. Coulda had Taj Gibson one pick later or DeJuan Blair or Chase Budinger

Of all the things you mention, only getting the 2nd pick (and therefore Durant) could be described as lucky...

He PICKED when to trade Jeff Green.

He CHOSE Harden instead of someone else.

Same goes for Westbrook.

These are all choices made by the GM.

Durant resigned because, in part, he likes the direction that Presti has taken the team.

And of course he's not perfect. He's just much, much better than almost every other GM in the league.

[byennie]

Avery Bradley will be lucky to have the career of Tony Allen.  

You mean the Tony Allen who didn't land a consistent starting gig until his 30th birthday, averages 7.8 PPG for his career, never developed an outside shot in 8 years, and still only plays 26 MPG as the 3rd or 4th best player on his team?

I actually think Tony is a pretty useful player these days, but let's be real. His only above-average skill is defense, and Bradley is comparable in that category at an age when Tony hadn't even been drafted. Assuming Bradley is a starter next year, he will likely exceed Allen's best year with even modest improvements.

[Fafnir]

Man, you guys are still sleeping on AB! I hope DA isn't!

AB is undersized and has had multiple knee injuries.  He can play well at times, but there is no way AB is anything more than a bit starter and solid 6th man type player.  If he was a few inches bigger, then sure, he would be a potential all star, but undersized guys are role players for a reason.  

Ha multiple knee injuries?  I didn't know he ever had 1.   When did he get those injuries when he was like 12?

Size is completely overrated in the league today, especially when you are talking about anyone other than a center

He had surgery on his knee right after the Celtics drafted him.  I thought it was common knowledge that Bradley has had a history of knee issues.

Ankle, he had surgery on his ankle after the C's drafted him.

[Boris Badenov]

Man, you guys are still sleeping on AB! I hope DA isn't!

AB is undersized and has had multiple knee injuries.  He can play well at times, but there is no way AB is anything more than a bit starter and solid 6th man type player.  If he was a few inches bigger, then sure, he would be a potential all star, but undersized guys are role players for a reason.  

Ha multiple knee injuries?  I didn't know he ever had 1.   When did he get those injuries when he was like 12?

Size is completely overrated in the league today, especially when you are talking about anyone other than a center

He had surgery on his knee right after the Celtics drafted him.  I thought it was common knowledge that Bradley has had a history of knee issues.

That was ankle surgery. And what "history" are you talking about?

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Man, you guys are still sleeping on AB! I hope DA isn't!

AB is undersized and has had multiple knee injuries.  He can play well at times, but there is no way AB is anything more than a bit starter and solid 6th man type player.  If he was a few inches bigger, then sure, he would be a potential all star, but undersized guys are role players for a reason.  

Ha multiple knee injuries?  I didn't know he ever had 1.   When did he get those injuries when he was like 12?

Size is completely overrated in the league today, especially when you are talking about anyone other than a center

He had surgery on his knee right after the Celtics drafted him.  I thought it was common knowledge that Bradley has had a history of knee issues.

That was ankle surgery. And what "history" are you talking about?

TP!

[ThaPreacher]

And if thats not enough how far  does Keyon Dooling and both first rounders get us?

Packaging both 1st's (which are in the 20's) gets us up to the mid-teens at best.

And I think the Dooling comment is a joke, because I laughed at it.

HAHAHA hilarious. I laughed too.. for a top 5 pick, im guessing we'd have to give up a combo of Bradley PLUS either JJJ or Moore and both our picks.. which I wouldnt do...

ROFL!!!  LOL!   **&!! Pounds Chest and begins to pee pants!!!


I got home from work!  Long day.  Dark dreary skies.  Getting ready to head out to practice.
Long week.  Gloomy.  Then I saw this post.

Dooling.....lol....... and I was laughing too.  
And then I was laughing even louder seeing that you guys were laughing....

hilarious.

Dooling gets us two D-League 1st round draft picks!

[CFAN38]

And since you brought him up, Tony Allen's per 40 numbers were better than Avery Bradley's his rookie year.  Now granted Allen was 23, but he also has more legit size.  And it wasn't like Allen wasn't getting minutes as he started 34 of his 77 games.

Avery Bradley will be lucky to have the career of Tony Allen. 

TA's rookie year he was already 23. The fact that TA was a 23 year old rookie who then (very sadly) suffered a series on knee injuries really stunted much of his potential development. Even with this stunted development he is proving to be a solid starter on a good team.

Where TA is a great defender he was not to the level of AB at even 23 let alone 21. Avery already seems much more comfortable on offense both with and without the ball. I think any celtics fan who has watched both players in there first two years would agree that Avery has much more upside.