Author Topic: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder  (Read 10816 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2012, 12:14:13 AM »

Offline syfy9

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1873
  • Tommy Points: 291
  • We may as well put Tyrion in at center.
Wow, 5th overall. Very impressive, what are the odds he'll actually win it though?  ???

Is it possible? (Lebron breaks a knee, KD retires?)
I like Marcus Smart

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2012, 12:20:30 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
I love that that dude has Rondo in the top five, but, c'mon, man, KG's not even in his top 15?!!
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2012, 03:54:42 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
he's having a hell of a season.  I think I could probably average 10 assists with this team, though.

Still... Rondo's getting the job done and deserves credit. 

Could you get 16 in a game passing to Avery Bradley, Brandon Bass, Greg Stiemsma, and Mickael Pietrus?
16 assists and 8 turnovers?  Helps when they shoot 48%.  No... I couldn't.  I could average 10 playing with Pierce, KG and Ray, though.  Just bring the ball up, wait for them to do all the work setting screens, running around picks, etc... and then just pass it off.  Easy money.


Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2012, 03:57:36 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
he's having a hell of a season.  I think I could probably average 10 assists with this team, though.
 

  The funny thing is, you probably do think that.


Hey I didn't say I could average 12.  I said I could average 10.  Big difference.  How hard can it be?... bring the ball up, and toss it to one of my three hall of fame teammates, Brandon Bass or a streaking Avery Bradley.  Piece of cake.

I'm not serious, btw.  Rondo has been incredible this year.  Poor man's Deron Williams for sure.

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2012, 05:01:53 AM »

Offline chambers

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7484
  • Tommy Points: 944
  • Boston Celtics= Championships, nothing less.
he's having a hell of a season.  I think I could probably average 10 assists with this team, though.
 

  The funny thing is, you probably do think that.


Hey I didn't say I could average 12.  I said I could average 10.  Big difference.  How hard can it be?... bring the ball up, and toss it to one of my three hall of fame teammates, Brandon Bass or a streaking Avery Bradley.  Piece of cake.

I'm not serious, btw.  Rondo has been incredible this year.  Poor man's Deron Williams for sure.

It's funny how whoever you throw out there with him he still gets the same numbers. I wonder how many points around the rim Stinksma would get without Rondo throwing him lobs or getting it to him in the corner or elbow.
I wonder how many threes Ray would have hit the last 3 years if it were Williams as PG. I wonder if Shaq would have scored as many easy baskets around the rim if Williams were in our line up instead of Rondo, or if Hollins would have all the dunks he's had this year in the little playing time he's had.
I understand it's your opinion but he still managed to get 10 assists quite quickly the other night with no KG, Ray or Pierce.
It's easy to interpret what you're saying as if the guy you recently called 'a bum' (Avery Bradley) making cuts to the rim is the reason for Rondo getting assists-not the other way round? I know there's a hint of sarcasm to what you're suggesting but as long as you think Deron Williams is a better player there's nothing that will convince you that it's Rondo that makes this team so good, not this team that makes Rondo so good.
If we started Bradley at point guard would he get 10 assists for this many games straight?
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2012, 05:11:03 AM »

Offline Celtics18

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11688
  • Tommy Points: 1469
he's having a hell of a season.  I think I could probably average 10 assists with this team, though.

Still... Rondo's getting the job done and deserves credit. 

Could you get 16 in a game passing to Avery Bradley, Brandon Bass, Greg Stiemsma, and Mickael Pietrus?
16 assists and 8 turnovers?  Helps when they shoot 48%.  No... I couldn't.  I could average 10 playing with Pierce, KG and Ray, though.  Just bring the ball up, wait for them to do all the work setting screens, running around picks, etc... and then just pass it off.  Easy money.



I understand that you are being tongue in cheek here, and that's very cute.  The thing that bothers me about the "anyone could rack up the assists that Rondo gets if he were playing with those three hall of famers" argument is that Rondo has been putting up better passing numbers as those guys continue to move into the past their prime years.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen, but wouldn't Rondo's assist numbers be declining as opposed to increasing as those guys age if his numbers where purely due to his getting to play point guard with those greats?

It's often the same folks who in one breath claim that our core is too old and washed up to still be a significant team, yet in the other say that Rondo is only a good passer because he plays with three hall of famers.

Surely, you can see how twisted that is.  
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2012, 05:16:33 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9931
  • Tommy Points: 777
Edited since LarBrd33 was joking.

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2012, 06:10:01 AM »

Offline myteamisbetterthanyours

  • Payton Pritchard
  • Posts: 250
  • Tommy Points: 31
he's having a hell of a season.  I think I could probably average 10 assists with this team, though.

Still... Rondo's getting the job done and deserves credit. 

You couldnt get 10 total assists even if you played 20 years with the Big 3 in their prime.  Rondo dished out 16 assists without the Big 3 in Charlotte.  Albeit against one of the worst teams in history, but still.  No Big 3, he still drops 20 and 16.. Rondo is a baller. No matter whos on his team, hes going to get his numbers.  I don't understand why people can't see that.

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2012, 07:28:10 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
he's having a hell of a season.  I think I could probably average 10 assists with this team, though.

Still... Rondo's getting the job done and deserves credit.  

You couldnt get 10 total assists even if you played 20 years with the Big 3 in their prime.

oh come on... sure I could.  Pierce was just player of the month, KG was just player of the week... and Ray makes himself open.  I can just stand there and wait for them to do all the work... then just pass it to them when they are open.  I mean, Rondo has a slight advantage over me due to the fact he shoots worse than my grandmother.  My jumpshot is silky smooth...  so in other words, defenders aren't going to slack off me 20 feet every time I touch the ball... meaning my vision will be stunted a bit.  If my jumpshot was as terrible as Rondo, i'd probably average 20 assists a game.  

BTW... I get a kick out of how serious you folks take me when I'm clearly full of crap.  I'm 5'7 and white.  Come on now.  

But in all seriousness, though.  In response to Chambers who said, "I wonder how many threes Ray would have hit the last 3 years if it were Williams as PG. I wonder if Shaq would have scored as many easy baskets around the rim if Williams were in our line up instead of Rondo, or if Hollins would have all the dunks he's had this year in the little playing time he's had."

... answer:  Bout the same.  Deron Williams managed to average 11 assists 3 straight years in Utah despite also averaging 19 points on 48% shooting and 83% from the line (and slightly less turnovers, actually).  It's just simple math here... guy was taking 6 more shots on average, but still having the same assist production as Rondo.  Presumably if Rondo scored more, he'd average less assists. If Deron scored less, he'd average more assists.  Even on that craptastic Jersey team where he's been surrounded by the likes of Anthony Morrow and Marshon Brooks as his best players he still manages to drop 9 assists while also being asked to lead his team in scoring with 21 points.  So think of this way... if Williams is averaging 21 points and 9 assists, that means he's directly responsible for about 40 points a night.  Rondo's only job here really is to just distribute to his star scorers and yet he's only "responsible" for about 34 points (12 points, 11 assists).  Look, I'm done arguing with people on whether Rondo is better than Williams.  You all are entitled to your opinion.  But to suggest that Shaq wouldn't have gotten easy buckets had Deron been here instead of Rondo just doesn't make a lick of sense.  Frankly, Shaq's buckets would have been even easier... since Deron actually commands attention from defenders due to his shooting ability.  He can command double teams, spread the floor, AND match Rondo's distribution ability.  Now before everyone jumps down my throat by pointing out how Deron Williams is only shooting 41% this year for a lotto team, I need to remind everyone that our very own Messiah, Paul Pierce, shot 40% and 29% from three on a godawful Celtic team in 04.  We can't measure Deron's ability by what's happening right now on the Nets.  A better example would be the season he took the Jazz to the WCF and averaged 19 points, 11 assists, 51% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line over 82 games.  Now, debate all you want about whether Rondo's rebounding ability and defense makes him a better player than Deron Williams.  Fine.  I don't care.  But to suggest that Deron Williams couldn't pass the ball to Ray Allen coming off a screen just doesn't make sense to me.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 07:38:42 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2012, 08:03:20 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
I'm gonna beat a dead horse one last time on this Deron Williams things since I've been getting TONS of flack from multiple posters about my insistence that Williams is better.  I mean, shoot... even suggesting that Williams is on Rondo's level gets scoffed at.

Both of these games happened last month.

3/3/12 Pre-Gerald Wallace:  Deron Drops 57 points (55% shooting... PERFECT 21/21 from the line), 7 assists, 6 rebounds, 1 steal and 1 block.  He basically HAD to score by necessity with the players he had surrounding him.  And yes, that's the same team that Rondo just tore up for 20 points and 16 assists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7COX11w_Ufc

3/30/12 With Gerald Wallace on board:  Deron drops 20 assists.  Yes, I know Rondo's done that twice this year.  Both were overtime games where Rondo played 47+ minutes.  Deron managed to do it in regulation (40 minutes) with mostly garbage teammates.  (Pro tip... check out :28 ... it might look unfamiliar to those of you who have only seen Rondo play. It's called a double team):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnI1YBPVolE

Now put aside your personal feelings for a moment.  Are you REALLY telling me that this guy (with career averages of 18 points and 9.2 assists) is incapable of finding Ray Allen coming off a screen?  Come on now. 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 08:10:12 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2012, 08:53:04 AM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
Of all of deron's games this year I wouldn't use the bobcraps and warriors to make the case for him. He's been as impressive against some quality teams.

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2012, 10:00:35 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
he's having a hell of a season.  I think I could probably average 10 assists with this team, though.
 

  The funny thing is, you probably do think that.


Hey I didn't say I could average 12.  I said I could average 10.  Big difference.  How hard can it be?... bring the ball up, and toss it to one of my three hall of fame teammates, Brandon Bass or a streaking Avery Bradley.  Piece of cake.

I'm not serious, btw.  Rondo has been incredible this year.  Poor man's Deron Williams for sure.

  Rondo does everything better than Williams other than score. The fact that you think that all Rondo does is "Just bring the ball up, wait for them to do all the work setting screens, running around picks, etc... and then just pass it off" explains why you don't see it.

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2012, 10:06:04 AM »

Offline elcotte

  • Derrick White
  • Posts: 438
  • Tommy Points: 52
he's having a hell of a season.  I think I could probably average 10 assists with this team, though.
 



  The funny thing is, you probably do think that.


Hey I didn't say I could average 12.  I said I could average 10.  Big difference.  How hard can it be?... bring the ball up, and toss it to one of my three hall of fame teammates, Brandon Bass or a streaking Avery Bradley.  Piece of cake.

I'm not serious, btw.  Rondo has been incredible this year.  Poor man's Deron Williams for sure.

  Rondo does everything better than Williams other than score. The fact that you think that all Rondo does is "Just bring the ball up, wait for them to do all the work setting screens, running around picks, etc... and then just pass it off" explains why you don't see it.


Rondo is also mentally tougher.

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2012, 10:51:46 AM »

Offline southshorematt

  • Neemias Queta
  • Posts: 179
  • Tommy Points: 46
Deron Williams is a little baby who won't win anything EVER. no rings

Re: Rondo climbs the MVP ladder
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2012, 11:08:19 AM »

Offline CelticG1

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4201
  • Tommy Points: 288
If Rondo isn't being guarded wouldn't it be harder for him to find his teammates? Wouldn't the defenders just stick to their men and at times double off him? There's a reason why bass and KG have so wide open point blank shots and its not because they are running around screens.

Teams can gameplan rondo and at times it will work but its definitely not easy