Doc rips into the team after tonight's terrible effort

[Celts Fan 92]

After shooting 54% from the field over the last 2 months, KG has shot 12-35 over the last 2 games.

And we were still in striking distance for the win.

In a 7 game series, this team can compete and win against any team in the league.

thank you im glad a few posters dont think we're bottom feeders after barely losin to 2 top teams in the league

[thestackshow]

All we need is to box out. Our team refuses to box out their man. Danny has assembled the worst collection of players as far as "rebounding instincts and timing" go.

Outside of KG, nobody on this team has a knack for rebounds and its killing us.

If I was Doc I would scrap whatever gameplan we had, and just tell the team I want to see you box out your men after every shot goes up, and everyone crash the boards just so I could see if we really could be a decent rebounding team if we had a gameplan for it.

[j804]

I guess it isn't just me then after sleeping on it I'm not that all disappointed with these 2 losses, yea I wish we could have one won but the main thing is were showing we can hang now where as to before these games are probably just blowouts by halftime.

The Spurs game we just had some defense breakdowns Bonner with the consecutive threes just blew the game open and also the late offensive rebound for three killed us. The Bulls game that was just fatigue plain and simple we had just traveled to Chicago having faced the hottest team in the league the night before in a nail biter and still played solid for the better part of the game.

The good things is once the playoffs roll around you get to gameplan and make adjustments something Doc is usually pretty good at ( notice as the Spurs game went on we figured them out offensively they were getting shut down at least starters). I think we need to just keep playing solid, hopefully get Pietrus back and have Ray in rhythm before the playoffs and figure out our rotations. I'm for one not counting this team out and can't wait for the playoffs, the bright lights, motivational speeches from Doc, the guys possible last hurrah together yesss go Celtics!!

[Celtics18]

I guess it isn't just me then after sleeping on it I'm not that all disappointed with these 2 losses, yea I wish we could have one won but the main thing is were showing we can hang now where as to before these games are probably just blowouts by halftime.

The Spurs game we just had some defense breakdowns Bonner with the consecutive threes just blew the game open and also the late offensive rebound for three killed us. The Bulls game that was just fatigue plain and simple we had just traveled to Chicago having faced the hottest team in the league the night before in a nail biter and still played solid for the better part of the game.

The good things is once the playoffs roll around you get to gameplan and make adjustments something Doc is usually pretty good at ( notice as the Spurs game went on we figured them out offensively they were getting shut down at least starters). I think we need to just keep playing solid, hopefully get Pietrus back and have Ray in rhythm before the playoffs and figure out our rotations. I'm for one not counting this team out and can't wait for the playoffs, the bright lights, motivational speeches from Doc, the guys possible last hurrah together yesss go Celtics!!

The Spurs game was a shame.  We fought like wild beasts to get back in that one, but couldn't close it down the stretch.

I definitely thought they looked tired going into the Bulls game.  Even in the first half, I thought both teams were playing with significantly less intensity than in the Spurs game.  The fact that we ended the first half with an 11 point lead, I think lulled the team into a false sense of security.  The Bulls juked us.  They had another gear, and they shifted into it.  By then, we couldn't catch up. 

Moving on; Let's try to get the Pacers.  I'll excuse Doc's flying off the handle a little bit.  He doesn't do it often, so
hopefully it has a positive impact.  I trust that he knows how to handle these guys. 

[Kane3387]

I appreciate what Doc said. They came out int he second half and wanted it more. They out-Celticed the Celtics.

[OmarSekou]

Pierce owned the first half and Deng the second. At this stage in their respective careers they are pretty even players.

We can't beat the Bulls if we allow them to out-Celtic us.

Thibs helped install that in Boston and he has done that in Chicago.

We are literally looking in the mirror at this team. They are younger and more athletic. Presently they are just as talented and maybe even more so. They are deeper as well. But we can't allow them to be hungrier. We have experience and we are better at executing, but if they want it more then us then we have no chance. Clearly they wanted more then we did.

They're not as talented. When I say talent I mean are guys are more skilled so we can do more with less effort. Noah isn't as talented as KG by a long shot. Deng isn't as talented as Pierce. I'm biased but I put Rose and Rondo as a wash on most nights. Rip isn't as talented as Ray or Bradley. They have Boozer and their bench.

Our effort may have been low, but the Bulls are notorious for high stamina and effort (coincidentally except for Boozer).

[BballTim]

Doc blames the players but plays Ryan Hollins 13 minutes. I guess he's blaming Steamer for all these problems.

"Greg, go sit down there with the rest of the rookies. Yes, son you. I don't care that you've been playing well, you are a rookie. Just watch, Hollins is going to play more minutes than you tonight and vs Indiana, I'm going to play small ball again".

  Didn't Steamer get 3 fouls in his first 4 minutes or so?

It's the NBA. You get 6 fouls. Use them all.

  Use them all in a quick stint in the first half? *That's* a great plan...

[ScoobyDoo]

TP to "thestackshow", great post.

I simply do not buy the "we just aren't a good rebounding team..." and the "we just don't have good rebounders..." lines.

For me, and with respect to everyone who disagrees, that is the biggest line of BS I've heard in a long, long time.

Sow me a guy 4-6 inches taller than me and 2 pounds heavier than me, and I'll show you how to box him out all night, all week. It is not rocket science.

Length, strength & athleticism are part of the equation - I'll give it a "very generous" 30 % of the ability to rebound well.

The other 70%, and for me, more like 80 to 90% is about mental toughness, determination, aggression, desire and discipline.

We "do not" box out. Shot goes up, we turn around and look at the rim, guys walk by us.

A 6' 6" guy can box out can box out a 6' 10 guy all night. You're only talking about 4 inches.

Occasionally we do it. You'll see Pierce lay a body on Boozer of some other PF, get his position, and then actually jump when the ball comes and lo and behold he comes down with the ball...

Against San Antonio, I watched the monstrous Avery Bradley, who was out of position when San Antonio shot the ball, muscle his way in on Stephen Jackson and actually lay Jackson on his back out of bounds under the rim. Bradley didn't get the rebound but I think "we" did.

What's Bradley? 6'2", 180 pounds soaking wet?
Stephen Jackson - let's go 6'8", 218 pounds.

So Bradley's only giving up 6 inches and about 40 pounds.

Look, Bradley obviously won't win every single rebounding match up with SJax. But if all our five guys were consistently laying a body on their guys, we still wouldn't be the best rebounding team around, but we'd be a lot, lot, lot better.

Rebounding is like defense, it has to be a commitment, mentally and physically. It's the "dirty work" and the good rebounding teams embrace it mentally and get after it. The bad rebounding teams are lazy in the rebounding department.

It's about toughness, physical and mental, and that is what Doc was talking about after the Chicago game and why he was so p---ed off.

Rebounding is about heart and toughness, far more than it is about length and strength.         

[Fafnir]

Rebounding in the NBA is very much about the physical tools necessary to get the ball. Technique and motor matter, but watch old tapes of KG, current tapes of Blake Griffin, and Kevin Love. Boxing out is over rated when it comes to getting rebounds.

These guys aren't just out "hustling" their way to boards. They're also physically out jumping, shoving, moving, and grabing the ball with both hands with strength.

[nickagneta]

Missed the game.

For those that watched, was the effort really that bad? Or was it the mental preparation?

I seem to be getting conflicting thoughts about this after reading this thread and Doc's comment.

[Fafnir]

I do think that the C's could improve their defensive rebounding with more time practicing technique and responsibilities. But I don't think the improvements would make us more than a few rankings better than average.

Which would be a big improvement when it comes to our chances of winning, but that wouldnt' make us a good rebounding team still.

[Celtics4ever]

Rebounding is a mindset,  we have been able to compensate for this in the past in other areas.  Because of age and talent we can no longer do so.  It's time for a change in this regard.  I know we scheme differently to minimize transition points gave up on D.   But this is killing us on the boards and haunting us.

[Chief]

Missed the game.

For those that watched, was the effort really that bad? Or was it the mental preparation?

I seem to be getting conflicting thoughts about this after reading this thread and Doc's comment.

Nick, this team is just a poor rebounding team. Heck, the first half the team looked great. Held a nice lead for a long time. I think it's more of a chemistry thing. It's going to take some time to adjust Ray back into the line-up. Doing it vs the Spurs and the Bulls was probably poor timing. But that is really no-ones fault.

The only thing I frown upon is Hollins extended minutes. For whatever reason, Doc has chosen to get a look at the kid. He is terrible at everything but dunking. When he is in, our rebounding goes from bad to worse.

[Fafnir]

Rebounding is a mindset,  we have been able to compensate for this in the past in other areas.  Because of age and talent we can no longer do so.  It's time for a change in this regard.  I know we scheme differently to minimize transition points gave up on D.   But this is killing us on the boards and haunting us.

I guess the team just lost the mindset after 08-09?

The C's rebounding woes is personal based onage and declining athleticism.

[Celtics4ever]

Nice of you to read half a post, Faf.