"Trade Rajon for Deron Williams this summer while his stock is high"

[LarBrd33]

I disagree.  I don't think Deron Williams is a better player. 

k

[paintitgreen]

If the Celtics could trade Rondo for Deron Williams over the summer, I'd be on board. But Williams is an unrestricted free agent who can't be traded until he signs with somebody. Which means he'd have to decide he wants to come to Boston as a free agent. In that case, the Celtics would be able to shop Rondo - why shop him just to New Jersey? New Jersey would be losing Williams anyway, so they'd actually have to give up something of value for Rondo, like Marshon Brooks, or a sign and trade of Lopez.

There would be some salary advantages to dealing with NJ (the Celtics would only have to free up about $6-7 million in cap space in a straight sign and trade of Williams for Rondo so they might be able to keep both KG and Green) but wouldn't you be better served signing Williams with cap space and trading Rondo in a sign and trade for Hibbert, for example? (Rondo would absolutely get you Josh Smith or Al Jefferson, he has way more value than those guys). Probably still have the space to keep Green under those circumstances, or KG if he'd take something below, say, $8 million (not sure he would). But a starting five of Williams, Bradley, Pierce, KG and Hibbert would be a hell of a beginning to a team.

But in the end, it's still about whether Deron Williams wants to go to Boston, which means he holds all the cards. If he'd rather go to Dallas, he'll do that.

The other thing to consider in this is that if you're looking at rebuilding, Rondo will cost about $6-8 million less per year than Williams over the next three seasons. So it's gonna come down to the details.

[Celtics4ever]

I am happy with Rajon too.  He had a triple double yesterday.  What has Deron ever won?

[LarBrd33]

Like i said... the concept behind this thread doesn't make sense.

Deron has a player option next year.  If he decides he doesn't want to stick with Brooklyn all signs point to him joining the Mavericks.  But... maybe you can convince him to come to Boston.  in which case, you dump Rondo to the highest bidder.

And again, I fully expect Ainge to try this.  He wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't pursue signing a star like Deron with our cap space.  Even if you think Rondo is better than Deron, you still have to do this.  Use Rondo to bring in a big man or something.  You're not going to find a better addition to this squad than Deron Williams.  Not sure if people are tryin to say Deron isn't good or if they are just trying to say Rondo is better.  Personally I think both statements are clearly false, but I might be delusional.  

[Weird Facts]

Rondo can't win on his own?
Deron Williams can? haha

Hey Jeff Clark can you just delete this topic for us?
Thanks bud.  LOL

[green7]

sure because the nets are really killing the competition at the moment lol.

 

[BballTim]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again. 

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

Would it really be that painful to you? This sounds like a major "Trade Rondo" post. Speculation of how good John Wall will be is just that until he proves himself to be 'elite'. Rondo would have had well over 20 assists yesterday afternoon if different Celtics players weren't fouled after Rondo passed the ball to them in perfect position for a lay-up.

I get that Rondo isn't even an average shooter. It's just that he is so much better than everybody else at everything else. As he grows older and loses athleticism he will need to find other ways to dominate, but he is very savvy and I don't doubt that he will find a way. I am perfectly happy keeping Rondo for as long as we can. I fully believe he is player you can build around.

How is this a "trade Rondo" post?


He says he likes Rondo on this team, but would have to give him up if one of the few PGs (there are only three) that are better then Rondo. 



Rondo is a top 5 PG right now.  The three PGs that I have ahead of him are not older then him with a shorter career left.  They are all in the same age range (with Rose being a little younger)

Yeah.  I LOVE Rondo.  But I recognize he's a flawed player and pretty inconsistent. 

Take his last 5 games, for example. 

8 points, 14 assists, 6 rebounds, 1.4 steals 37% shooting, 14% from three and 50% from the line

Playing great.  Can't shoot worth crap, but playing good.  14 assists is great, but you realize that during those 5 games, Bass is averaging 15 points, Bradley is averaging 15 points, KG is averaging 18 points on 52% shooting, and Pierce is averaging 24 points on 46% shooting.   

You might say, "well they are scoring so much because Rondo is dishing them the ball"... ehhhh... I dunno about that.  Maybe partially.  But KG and Pierce are playing their best basketball all year.  It's no coincidence that Rondo's assists numbers are so high while two hall of famers are playing like hall of famers. 

Meanwhile you take a look at Deron WIlliams over the past 5 games (his team has won 4 out of 5).  His teammates are terrible. 

19 points, 14 assists, 3 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 38% shooting, 31% from three and 73% from the line. 

His FG% is terrible, but it's kinda to be expected.  He doesn't have hall-of-famers surrounding him.  He's the main main.  They are doubling him.  There is a ton of pressure on him.  IT's a wonder he can average 14 assists with the kind of garbage he has surrounding him.

Over that 5 game stretch, Wallace is averaging 16 on 42% shooting.

Brooks is averaging 10 on 41% shooting.

Humphries is averaging 14 on 50% shooting

Morrow is averaging 10 on 31% shooting.

Again, it's a wonder that Williams can get 14 assists with that kind of mediocrity surrounding him. 

It's a wonder that this season Williams has been able to even average 22 points (41% shooting, 35% from three, 84% from the line) and 9 assists with this kind of talent.  If he can do that with a terrible team... what could he do with KG, Pierce and Ray surround him?   Call me delusional, but I think Rondo would have a tough time putting up his 14 assists on Jersey.  You put ROndo on Jersey his Field goal percentage drops and his assists drop.  You put Deron on Boston and his field goal percentage goes up and his assists go up.  Deron is just better.

And as wdleehi says, there are 3 PG's who are unquestionably better than Rondo.  Chris Paul, Deron and Rose.  Some would bite the bullet on a Rondo for Westbrook trade as well.  (

Westbrook this year:  24.5 points, 5.5 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.7 steals 47% shooting, 33% from three and 82% from the line this season ... you gotta imagine his role would be different surrounded by this talent.  Less scoring and more assists.


And call me crazy but I would also trade Rondo for Kyrie Irving straight up without even blinking (especially considering Irving is on his rookie contract).  Kid JUST TURNED 20 and is averaging 19 points, 5.7 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal with 47% shooting, 42% from three, and 87% from the line (in only 31 minutes a game).  That's just SICK (even SICKER when you consider the talent surrounding him... those field goal percentages are UNBELIEVABLE.  Who is his 2nd best player... Alonzo Gee??... Good lord). I guess you'd be better off taking Rondo over him short-term, but I'd still do that trade without blinking. 

26 year old Rondo for the season:  12 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds, 1.7 steals... 45% shooting, 21% from three 59% from the line (37 minutes a game). 

I love Rondo.  I'd probably put him as a top 5 point guard right now... but there are a few players who are clearly better.  Kinda like I've always been willing to trade Pierce for LeBron.  It is what it is. 

Rondo is undeniably talented... but I've always kinda figured you could stick Andre Miller with the Big 3 and the guy would end up averaging 10+ assists.  My concern isn't about right now... my concern is what happens when Rondo is the top dog and his best teammates are Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  I mirror the Celtics in that I'm content with keeping Rondo... unless he can be traded for a better player.

Say what you want about Rondo's inflated stats.  Does Rondo make Allen, Pierce, and Garnett better or do Allen, Garnett, and Pierce make Rondo better?  For me the truth is probably that when they are clicking, like they currently are, they all help to make each other better.

Sure, Rondo's assist stats say he's a great passer, but watching him play is what confirms it.  I don't see how you can watch Rondo play and come to the conclusion that he's a mediocre floor general and that just about any decent point guard could do what he does. 

There are plenty of point guards who can do things that Rondo can't like hit threes and free throws, but I don't think there are any who have the vision, savvy, passing ability, and floor generalship of our point guard.

 

Rondo is an elite floor general.  Not disputing that.  Other elite floor generals include (but are not limited to) Chris Paul and Deron Williams (both of which can also shoot).

I'm saying if you stick him on the Nets where his teammates are Marshoon Brooks and Anthony Morrow... or stick him on Cleveland where his best teammates are Alonzo Gee and Anthony Parker... I don't think he has the same amount of room to roam around.  I think he gets doubled... and I think his teammates miss a ton of shots.  At that point, having no shooting ability whatsoever becomes a bigger problem. 

Point is, I don't know what Rondo can do on a bad team.  Chances are he'll struggle.  But I DO know what Deron Williams can do on a good team.  He lead Utah to multiple 50+ win seasons... took them to the Western Conference finals (and the 2nd round two other times)... all the while averaging 19 point, 11 assist with 51% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line (and keeping it going in the playoffs)

Rondo in the playoffs:  13.8 points, 8.5 assists, 5.8 rebounds, 1.9 steals... 44% shooting, 28% from three and 64% from the line (with 3 hall of famers surrounding him)

Williams in the playoffs:  21.1 points, 9.6 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46% shooting, 40% from three, 80% from the line (while the top dog in Utah)

Call me crazy, but I'd take Williams over Rondo.  It's highly likely that Rondo would be less effective on a lesser team. 

Is it about wanting the guy who puts up individual numbers?

You also know what Deron Williams can do on a bad team.  We can debate his numbers and their meaning, but the truth is he's been able to lead the New Jersey Nets to one of the worst records in the league.

I don't get your point.  If you are suggesting that we are destined to field a terrible team after the big three retire, then I don't see the point in having Williams over Rondo.

If it'll make you happy to be a perennial lottery team, but at least you'll have a point guard who jacks up a lot of shots and scores a lot of points, then have at it.

I'd rather we kept Rondo and tried to put good players around him.   

It's about wanting a guy who is a better player.  Period.

  It's about wanting the player who makes your team better. Rondo's the better floor general, passer, rebounder, defender and does a better job of controlling the pace of the game. Deron's the better scorer.

[LarBrd33]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again. 

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

Would it really be that painful to you? This sounds like a major "Trade Rondo" post. Speculation of how good John Wall will be is just that until he proves himself to be 'elite'. Rondo would have had well over 20 assists yesterday afternoon if different Celtics players weren't fouled after Rondo passed the ball to them in perfect position for a lay-up.

I get that Rondo isn't even an average shooter. It's just that he is so much better than everybody else at everything else. As he grows older and loses athleticism he will need to find other ways to dominate, but he is very savvy and I don't doubt that he will find a way. I am perfectly happy keeping Rondo for as long as we can. I fully believe he is player you can build around.

How is this a "trade Rondo" post?


He says he likes Rondo on this team, but would have to give him up if one of the few PGs (there are only three) that are better then Rondo. 



Rondo is a top 5 PG right now.  The three PGs that I have ahead of him are not older then him with a shorter career left.  They are all in the same age range (with Rose being a little younger)

Yeah.  I LOVE Rondo.  But I recognize he's a flawed player and pretty inconsistent. 

Take his last 5 games, for example. 

8 points, 14 assists, 6 rebounds, 1.4 steals 37% shooting, 14% from three and 50% from the line

Playing great.  Can't shoot worth crap, but playing good.  14 assists is great, but you realize that during those 5 games, Bass is averaging 15 points, Bradley is averaging 15 points, KG is averaging 18 points on 52% shooting, and Pierce is averaging 24 points on 46% shooting.   

You might say, "well they are scoring so much because Rondo is dishing them the ball"... ehhhh... I dunno about that.  Maybe partially.  But KG and Pierce are playing their best basketball all year.  It's no coincidence that Rondo's assists numbers are so high while two hall of famers are playing like hall of famers. 

Meanwhile you take a look at Deron WIlliams over the past 5 games (his team has won 4 out of 5).  His teammates are terrible. 

19 points, 14 assists, 3 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 38% shooting, 31% from three and 73% from the line. 

His FG% is terrible, but it's kinda to be expected.  He doesn't have hall-of-famers surrounding him.  He's the main main.  They are doubling him.  There is a ton of pressure on him.  IT's a wonder he can average 14 assists with the kind of garbage he has surrounding him.

Over that 5 game stretch, Wallace is averaging 16 on 42% shooting.

Brooks is averaging 10 on 41% shooting.

Humphries is averaging 14 on 50% shooting

Morrow is averaging 10 on 31% shooting.

Again, it's a wonder that Williams can get 14 assists with that kind of mediocrity surrounding him. 

It's a wonder that this season Williams has been able to even average 22 points (41% shooting, 35% from three, 84% from the line) and 9 assists with this kind of talent.  If he can do that with a terrible team... what could he do with KG, Pierce and Ray surround him?   Call me delusional, but I think Rondo would have a tough time putting up his 14 assists on Jersey.  You put ROndo on Jersey his Field goal percentage drops and his assists drop.  You put Deron on Boston and his field goal percentage goes up and his assists go up.  Deron is just better.

And as wdleehi says, there are 3 PG's who are unquestionably better than Rondo.  Chris Paul, Deron and Rose.  Some would bite the bullet on a Rondo for Westbrook trade as well.  (

Westbrook this year:  24.5 points, 5.5 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.7 steals 47% shooting, 33% from three and 82% from the line this season ... you gotta imagine his role would be different surrounded by this talent.  Less scoring and more assists.


And call me crazy but I would also trade Rondo for Kyrie Irving straight up without even blinking (especially considering Irving is on his rookie contract).  Kid JUST TURNED 20 and is averaging 19 points, 5.7 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal with 47% shooting, 42% from three, and 87% from the line (in only 31 minutes a game).  That's just SICK (even SICKER when you consider the talent surrounding him... those field goal percentages are UNBELIEVABLE.  Who is his 2nd best player... Alonzo Gee??... Good lord). I guess you'd be better off taking Rondo over him short-term, but I'd still do that trade without blinking. 

26 year old Rondo for the season:  12 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds, 1.7 steals... 45% shooting, 21% from three 59% from the line (37 minutes a game). 

I love Rondo.  I'd probably put him as a top 5 point guard right now... but there are a few players who are clearly better.  Kinda like I've always been willing to trade Pierce for LeBron.  It is what it is. 

Rondo is undeniably talented... but I've always kinda figured you could stick Andre Miller with the Big 3 and the guy would end up averaging 10+ assists.  My concern isn't about right now... my concern is what happens when Rondo is the top dog and his best teammates are Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  I mirror the Celtics in that I'm content with keeping Rondo... unless he can be traded for a better player.

Say what you want about Rondo's inflated stats.  Does Rondo make Allen, Pierce, and Garnett better or do Allen, Garnett, and Pierce make Rondo better?  For me the truth is probably that when they are clicking, like they currently are, they all help to make each other better.

Sure, Rondo's assist stats say he's a great passer, but watching him play is what confirms it.  I don't see how you can watch Rondo play and come to the conclusion that he's a mediocre floor general and that just about any decent point guard could do what he does. 

There are plenty of point guards who can do things that Rondo can't like hit threes and free throws, but I don't think there are any who have the vision, savvy, passing ability, and floor generalship of our point guard.

 

Rondo is an elite floor general.  Not disputing that.  Other elite floor generals include (but are not limited to) Chris Paul and Deron Williams (both of which can also shoot).

I'm saying if you stick him on the Nets where his teammates are Marshoon Brooks and Anthony Morrow... or stick him on Cleveland where his best teammates are Alonzo Gee and Anthony Parker... I don't think he has the same amount of room to roam around.  I think he gets doubled... and I think his teammates miss a ton of shots.  At that point, having no shooting ability whatsoever becomes a bigger problem. 

Point is, I don't know what Rondo can do on a bad team.  Chances are he'll struggle.  But I DO know what Deron Williams can do on a good team.  He lead Utah to multiple 50+ win seasons... took them to the Western Conference finals (and the 2nd round two other times)... all the while averaging 19 point, 11 assist with 51% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line (and keeping it going in the playoffs)

Rondo in the playoffs:  13.8 points, 8.5 assists, 5.8 rebounds, 1.9 steals... 44% shooting, 28% from three and 64% from the line (with 3 hall of famers surrounding him)

Williams in the playoffs:  21.1 points, 9.6 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46% shooting, 40% from three, 80% from the line (while the top dog in Utah)

Call me crazy, but I'd take Williams over Rondo.  It's highly likely that Rondo would be less effective on a lesser team. 

Is it about wanting the guy who puts up individual numbers?

You also know what Deron Williams can do on a bad team.  We can debate his numbers and their meaning, but the truth is he's been able to lead the New Jersey Nets to one of the worst records in the league.

I don't get your point.  If you are suggesting that we are destined to field a terrible team after the big three retire, then I don't see the point in having Williams over Rondo.

If it'll make you happy to be a perennial lottery team, but at least you'll have a point guard who jacks up a lot of shots and scores a lot of points, then have at it.

I'd rather we kept Rondo and tried to put good players around him.   

It's about wanting a guy who is a better player.  Period.

  It's about wanting the player who makes your team better. Rondo's the better floor general, passer, rebounder, defender and does a better job of controlling the pace of the game. Deron's the better scorer.

BBallTime are you basing that on anything in particular?  Do you have a deep grasp of Deron Williams game based on years of watching him play or are you just using hyperbole?  Serious question... Seems most NBA experts would put Deron ahead of Rondo.  Waiting for someone to give me a valid reason why Rondo is a better "floor general and passer".  I'm inclined to think it's a Celtic bias when Celtic fans are the only people to make that claim.

[LarBrd33]

for example... try comparing what Deron William managed to do with Utah (western conference finals... 3 straight trips leading them out of the 1st round... 50+ wins multiple times... all without any hall of famers on his team) to what Devin Harris is doing in utah.

If we've learned anything from the Celtics this year... it's that Rondo isn't even the best player on his own team.  As evidence by the stretch where Boston went 6-2 with Rondo out (including back-to-back wins against Dwight Howard's playoff team)... the team very much belongs to Kevin Garnett.  We're only as good as KG.  Pierce is pretty key too.  In those two games against Orlando, KG had 8 steals and 6 blocks.  It's also no surprise that our recent success is coming with Kevin Garnett switching to center and seemingly aging himself backwards.  It's also no surprise that this team was a bunch of also-rans the year KG got hurt.  Rondo plays his part and he's effective.  Pierce has been spectacular as of recently.  Without those guys, I'm not so sure Rondo can flourish.  

Deron Williams, on the other hand, has proven capable of floor-Generaling a team deep into the playoffs while being the top dog AND leading them in scoring as well.

[tyrone biggums]

for example... try comparing what Deron William managed to do with Utah (western conference finals... 3 straight trips leading them out of the 1st round... 50+ wins multiple times... all without any hall of famers on his team) to what Devin Harris is doing in utah.

If we've learned anything from the Celtics this year... it's that Rondo isn't even the best player on his own team.  As evidence by the stretch where Boston went 6-2 with Rondo out (including back-to-back wins against Dwight Howard's playoff team)... the team very much belongs to Kevin Garnett.  We're only as good as KG.  Pierce is pretty key too.  In those two games against Orlando, KG had 8 steals and 6 blocks.  It's also no surprise that our recent success is coming with Kevin Garnett switching to center and seemingly aging himself backwards.  It's also no surprise that this team was a bunch of also-rans the year KG got hurt.  Rondo plays his part and he's effective.  Pierce has been spectacular as of recently.  Without those guys, I'm not so sure Rondo can flourish.  

Deron Williams, on the other hand, has proven capable of floor-Generaling a team deep into the playoffs while being the top dog AND leading them in scoring as well.

Really? In 2012 who is a better player on this team than Rondo? The other 3 are past their prime...

For the record I do think Williams is better but you're off with the comment that Rondo isn't the best player on the Celtics.

[BballTim]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again. 

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

Would it really be that painful to you? This sounds like a major "Trade Rondo" post. Speculation of how good John Wall will be is just that until he proves himself to be 'elite'. Rondo would have had well over 20 assists yesterday afternoon if different Celtics players weren't fouled after Rondo passed the ball to them in perfect position for a lay-up.

I get that Rondo isn't even an average shooter. It's just that he is so much better than everybody else at everything else. As he grows older and loses athleticism he will need to find other ways to dominate, but he is very savvy and I don't doubt that he will find a way. I am perfectly happy keeping Rondo for as long as we can. I fully believe he is player you can build around.

How is this a "trade Rondo" post?


He says he likes Rondo on this team, but would have to give him up if one of the few PGs (there are only three) that are better then Rondo. 



Rondo is a top 5 PG right now.  The three PGs that I have ahead of him are not older then him with a shorter career left.  They are all in the same age range (with Rose being a little younger)

Yeah.  I LOVE Rondo.  But I recognize he's a flawed player and pretty inconsistent. 

Take his last 5 games, for example. 

8 points, 14 assists, 6 rebounds, 1.4 steals 37% shooting, 14% from three and 50% from the line

Playing great.  Can't shoot worth crap, but playing good.  14 assists is great, but you realize that during those 5 games, Bass is averaging 15 points, Bradley is averaging 15 points, KG is averaging 18 points on 52% shooting, and Pierce is averaging 24 points on 46% shooting.   

You might say, "well they are scoring so much because Rondo is dishing them the ball"... ehhhh... I dunno about that.  Maybe partially.  But KG and Pierce are playing their best basketball all year.  It's no coincidence that Rondo's assists numbers are so high while two hall of famers are playing like hall of famers. 

Meanwhile you take a look at Deron WIlliams over the past 5 games (his team has won 4 out of 5).  His teammates are terrible. 

19 points, 14 assists, 3 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 38% shooting, 31% from three and 73% from the line. 

His FG% is terrible, but it's kinda to be expected.  He doesn't have hall-of-famers surrounding him.  He's the main main.  They are doubling him.  There is a ton of pressure on him.  IT's a wonder he can average 14 assists with the kind of garbage he has surrounding him.

Over that 5 game stretch, Wallace is averaging 16 on 42% shooting.

Brooks is averaging 10 on 41% shooting.

Humphries is averaging 14 on 50% shooting

Morrow is averaging 10 on 31% shooting.

Again, it's a wonder that Williams can get 14 assists with that kind of mediocrity surrounding him. 

It's a wonder that this season Williams has been able to even average 22 points (41% shooting, 35% from three, 84% from the line) and 9 assists with this kind of talent.  If he can do that with a terrible team... what could he do with KG, Pierce and Ray surround him?   Call me delusional, but I think Rondo would have a tough time putting up his 14 assists on Jersey.  You put ROndo on Jersey his Field goal percentage drops and his assists drop.  You put Deron on Boston and his field goal percentage goes up and his assists go up.  Deron is just better.

And as wdleehi says, there are 3 PG's who are unquestionably better than Rondo.  Chris Paul, Deron and Rose.  Some would bite the bullet on a Rondo for Westbrook trade as well.  (

Westbrook this year:  24.5 points, 5.5 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.7 steals 47% shooting, 33% from three and 82% from the line this season ... you gotta imagine his role would be different surrounded by this talent.  Less scoring and more assists.


And call me crazy but I would also trade Rondo for Kyrie Irving straight up without even blinking (especially considering Irving is on his rookie contract).  Kid JUST TURNED 20 and is averaging 19 points, 5.7 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal with 47% shooting, 42% from three, and 87% from the line (in only 31 minutes a game).  That's just SICK (even SICKER when you consider the talent surrounding him... those field goal percentages are UNBELIEVABLE.  Who is his 2nd best player... Alonzo Gee??... Good lord). I guess you'd be better off taking Rondo over him short-term, but I'd still do that trade without blinking. 

26 year old Rondo for the season:  12 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds, 1.7 steals... 45% shooting, 21% from three 59% from the line (37 minutes a game). 

I love Rondo.  I'd probably put him as a top 5 point guard right now... but there are a few players who are clearly better.  Kinda like I've always been willing to trade Pierce for LeBron.  It is what it is. 

Rondo is undeniably talented... but I've always kinda figured you could stick Andre Miller with the Big 3 and the guy would end up averaging 10+ assists.  My concern isn't about right now... my concern is what happens when Rondo is the top dog and his best teammates are Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  I mirror the Celtics in that I'm content with keeping Rondo... unless he can be traded for a better player.

Say what you want about Rondo's inflated stats.  Does Rondo make Allen, Pierce, and Garnett better or do Allen, Garnett, and Pierce make Rondo better?  For me the truth is probably that when they are clicking, like they currently are, they all help to make each other better.

Sure, Rondo's assist stats say he's a great passer, but watching him play is what confirms it.  I don't see how you can watch Rondo play and come to the conclusion that he's a mediocre floor general and that just about any decent point guard could do what he does. 

There are plenty of point guards who can do things that Rondo can't like hit threes and free throws, but I don't think there are any who have the vision, savvy, passing ability, and floor generalship of our point guard.

 

Rondo is an elite floor general.  Not disputing that.  Other elite floor generals include (but are not limited to) Chris Paul and Deron Williams (both of which can also shoot).

I'm saying if you stick him on the Nets where his teammates are Marshoon Brooks and Anthony Morrow... or stick him on Cleveland where his best teammates are Alonzo Gee and Anthony Parker... I don't think he has the same amount of room to roam around.  I think he gets doubled... and I think his teammates miss a ton of shots.  At that point, having no shooting ability whatsoever becomes a bigger problem. 

Point is, I don't know what Rondo can do on a bad team.  Chances are he'll struggle.  But I DO know what Deron Williams can do on a good team.  He lead Utah to multiple 50+ win seasons... took them to the Western Conference finals (and the 2nd round two other times)... all the while averaging 19 point, 11 assist with 51% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line (and keeping it going in the playoffs)

Rondo in the playoffs:  13.8 points, 8.5 assists, 5.8 rebounds, 1.9 steals... 44% shooting, 28% from three and 64% from the line (with 3 hall of famers surrounding him)

Williams in the playoffs:  21.1 points, 9.6 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46% shooting, 40% from three, 80% from the line (while the top dog in Utah)

Call me crazy, but I'd take Williams over Rondo.  It's highly likely that Rondo would be less effective on a lesser team. 

Is it about wanting the guy who puts up individual numbers?

You also know what Deron Williams can do on a bad team.  We can debate his numbers and their meaning, but the truth is he's been able to lead the New Jersey Nets to one of the worst records in the league.

I don't get your point.  If you are suggesting that we are destined to field a terrible team after the big three retire, then I don't see the point in having Williams over Rondo.

If it'll make you happy to be a perennial lottery team, but at least you'll have a point guard who jacks up a lot of shots and scores a lot of points, then have at it.

I'd rather we kept Rondo and tried to put good players around him.   

It's about wanting a guy who is a better player.  Period.

  It's about wanting the player who makes your team better. Rondo's the better floor general, passer, rebounder, defender and does a better job of controlling the pace of the game. Deron's the better scorer.

BBallTime are you basing that on anything in particular?  Do you have a deep grasp of Deron Williams game based on years of watching him play or are you just using hyperbole?  Serious question... Seems most NBA experts would put Deron ahead of Rondo.  Waiting for someone to give me a valid reason why Rondo is a better "floor general and passer".  I'm inclined to think it's a Celtic bias when Celtic fans are the only people to make that claim.

  Basing it on watching them play. I doubt if it's based on hyperbole as much as "Rondo's teammates inflate his stats".

[BballTim]

for example... try comparing what Deron William managed to do with Utah (western conference finals... 3 straight trips leading them out of the 1st round... 50+ wins multiple times... all without any hall of famers on his team) to what Devin Harris is doing in utah.

 It's also no surprise that this team was a bunch of also-rans the year KG got hurt.  Rondo plays his part and he's effective.  Pierce has been spectacular as of recently.  Without those guys, I'm not so sure Rondo can flourish.  

  The "also-rans", after KG got hurt, what about 2/3 of their games, made it out of the first round and took Orlando to 7 games. In other words, they were as good as the those teams that Deron did "so much" with.

[fairweatherfan]

The best argument against trading Rondo for Williams isn't talent, it's contract.  Rondo's is much better.  So much better that in my opinion it more than makes up for any difference between the two (I do think Williams is a bit better).

[LarBrd33]

for example... try comparing what Deron William managed to do with Utah (western conference finals... 3 straight trips leading them out of the 1st round... 50+ wins multiple times... all without any hall of famers on his team) to what Devin Harris is doing in utah.

 It's also no surprise that this team was a bunch of also-rans the year KG got hurt.  Rondo plays his part and he's effective.  Pierce has been spectacular as of recently.  Without those guys, I'm not so sure Rondo can flourish.  

  The "also-rans", after KG got hurt, what about 2/3 of their games, made it out of the first round and took Orlando to 7 games. In other words, they were as good as the those teams that Deron did "so much" with.

Sure... Pierce and Ray are hall of famers too.  You expect two hall off famers along with an allstar point guard to get into the 2nd round with or without their superstar big man (KG). 

Deron didn't have anything resembling a hall of famer on his teams.  You just proved my point.

And yes... this team is only as good as Kevin Garnett.  What he's doing right now is unbelievable.  He singlehandedly just saved the Celtics season.  We stand a long shot of getting into the 2nd round now.

[nickagneta]

BBall you are arguing with a guy that has admitted to not watching a Celtic game this year. I wouldn't waste my finger strength.