"Trade Rajon for Deron Williams this summer while his stock is high"

[Finkelskyhook]

I can see Paul's lobs to Jermaine O'Neal sailing into the seats over and over and over again, like a bad dream...

The only place Paul could lob a ball to O'Neal is in the seats.  It sure as hell wouldn't be on a basketball court.

[jambr380]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again.  

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

Would it really be that painful to you? This sounds like a major "Trade Rondo" post. Speculation of how good John Wall will be is just that until he proves himself to be 'elite'. Rondo would have had well over 20 assists yesterday afternoon if different Celtics players weren't fouled after Rondo passed the ball to them in perfect position for a lay-up.

I get that Rondo isn't even an average shooter. It's just that he is so much better than everybody else at everything else. As he grows older and loses athleticism he will need to find other ways to dominate, but he is very savvy and I don't doubt that he will find a way. I am perfectly happy keeping Rondo for as long as we can. I fully believe he is player you can build around.

[feckless]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again.  

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

I believe body type, weight and propensity for injuries all favor Rondo's longevity....I will put out there that in 5 years Rondo will be much more sought after than CPaul or DWill..Rose and Westbrook are another matter, but neither will ever be as smart a PG as Rondo.

[Celtics18]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again.  

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

Well, if Deron Williams' best teammates were "the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley" I don't see why you would like that team's chances any more than you would with Rondo at the point.  

[wdleehi]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again.  

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

Would it really be that painful to you? This sounds like a major "Trade Rondo" post. Speculation of how good John Wall will be is just that until he proves himself to be 'elite'. Rondo would have had well over 20 assists yesterday afternoon if different Celtics players weren't fouled after Rondo passed the ball to them in perfect position for a lay-up.

I get that Rondo isn't even an average shooter. It's just that he is so much better than everybody else at everything else. As he grows older and loses athleticism he will need to find other ways to dominate, but he is very savvy and I don't doubt that he will find a way. I am perfectly happy keeping Rondo for as long as we can. I fully believe he is player you can build around.

How is this a "trade Rondo" post?


He says he likes Rondo on this team, but would have to give him up if one of the few PGs (there are only three) that are better then Rondo.  



Rondo is a top 5 PG right now.  The three PGs that I have ahead of him are not older then him with a shorter career left.  They are all in the same age range (with Rose being a little younger)

[celtic -_- pride]

Obviously Rondo is not the elite point guard we need. Sure, he's a good player but an elite player should be able to take over a game on his own.

Without three hall of famers two hall of famers playing out of their mind, we would have lost. Clearly Rondo was only lucky that the Heat had no good point guard. If Pierce hadn't shut down LeBron, we would've lost. If KG didn't shut down Bosh, we would've lost. If Avery didn't shut down Wade, we would've lost. If Avery wasn't play like a superstar, we would've lost.

The problem with Rondo is he can't win on his own.

I'm so mad we weren't able to trade him for Chris Paul. How about Rondo for Westbrook? We'd have a lot of scoring. Westbrook is so much more talented than Rondo. He could probably win a basketball game all by himself.

We should trade Rondo + both our firsts for something before he no longer has the luxury of three Hall of Famers. I mean, Chris Paul would've probably had a quadruple triple against the Heat if he had the luxury of three two hall of famers. Even someone like Ramon Sessions would've done better than Rondo.

If we had gotten Chris Paul, he would've single handedly lifted our team while we were on our losing streak. It wouldn't even have mattered if all three of our big three were injured. He would've made Sasha Pavlovic look like a basketball king. He would've made JO look 25 again. And he would've went in 110% every. Single. Game. And he would've come out completely healthy because he's blessed by the basketball gods.

how can you say rondo doesnt take the game over ? Rondo is different in the sense that he doesnt need to dominate in scoring to take the game over. he takes it over by setting the tone for this team and how to be aggressive. we have 3 HOF players that can score if set up in the right situation. i bet if you ask any of the big 3 if they would rather have a scoring guard like williams or a pass first like rondo they will say rondo.

[LarBrd33]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again. 

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

Would it really be that painful to you? This sounds like a major "Trade Rondo" post. Speculation of how good John Wall will be is just that until he proves himself to be 'elite'. Rondo would have had well over 20 assists yesterday afternoon if different Celtics players weren't fouled after Rondo passed the ball to them in perfect position for a lay-up.

I get that Rondo isn't even an average shooter. It's just that he is so much better than everybody else at everything else. As he grows older and loses athleticism he will need to find other ways to dominate, but he is very savvy and I don't doubt that he will find a way. I am perfectly happy keeping Rondo for as long as we can. I fully believe he is player you can build around.

How is this a "trade Rondo" post?


He says he likes Rondo on this team, but would have to give him up if one of the few PGs (there are only three) that are better then Rondo. 



Rondo is a top 5 PG right now.  The three PGs that I have ahead of him are not older then him with a shorter career left.  They are all in the same age range (with Rose being a little younger)

Yeah.  I LOVE Rondo.  But I recognize he's a flawed player and pretty inconsistent. 

Take his last 5 games, for example. 

8 points, 14 assists, 6 rebounds, 1.4 steals 37% shooting, 14% from three and 50% from the line

Playing great.  Can't shoot worth crap, but playing good.  14 assists is great, but you realize that during those 5 games, Bass is averaging 15 points, Bradley is averaging 15 points, KG is averaging 18 points on 52% shooting, and Pierce is averaging 24 points on 46% shooting.   

You might say, "well they are scoring so much because Rondo is dishing them the ball"... ehhhh... I dunno about that.  Maybe partially.  But KG and Pierce are playing their best basketball all year.  It's no coincidence that Rondo's assists numbers are so high while two hall of famers are playing like hall of famers. 

Meanwhile you take a look at Deron WIlliams over the past 5 games (his team has won 4 out of 5).  His teammates are terrible. 

19 points, 14 assists, 3 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 38% shooting, 31% from three and 73% from the line. 

His FG% is terrible, but it's kinda to be expected.  He doesn't have hall-of-famers surrounding him.  He's the main main.  They are doubling him.  There is a ton of pressure on him.  IT's a wonder he can average 14 assists with the kind of garbage he has surrounding him.

Over that 5 game stretch, Wallace is averaging 16 on 42% shooting.

Brooks is averaging 10 on 41% shooting.

Humphries is averaging 14 on 50% shooting

Morrow is averaging 10 on 31% shooting.

Again, it's a wonder that Williams can get 14 assists with that kind of mediocrity surrounding him. 

It's a wonder that this season Williams has been able to even average 22 points (41% shooting, 35% from three, 84% from the line) and 9 assists with this kind of talent.  If he can do that with a terrible team... what could he do with KG, Pierce and Ray surround him?   Call me delusional, but I think Rondo would have a tough time putting up his 14 assists on Jersey.  You put ROndo on Jersey his Field goal percentage drops and his assists drop.  You put Deron on Boston and his field goal percentage goes up and his assists go up.  Deron is just better.

And as wdleehi says, there are 3 PG's who are unquestionably better than Rondo.  Chris Paul, Deron and Rose.  Some would bite the bullet on a Rondo for Westbrook trade as well.  (

Westbrook this year:  24.5 points, 5.5 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.7 steals 47% shooting, 33% from three and 82% from the line this season ... you gotta imagine his role would be different surrounded by this talent.  Less scoring and more assists.


And call me crazy but I would also trade Rondo for Kyrie Irving straight up without even blinking (especially considering Irving is on his rookie contract).  Kid JUST TURNED 20 and is averaging 19 points, 5.7 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal with 47% shooting, 42% from three, and 87% from the line (in only 31 minutes a game).  That's just SICK (even SICKER when you consider the talent surrounding him... those field goal percentages are UNBELIEVABLE.  Who is his 2nd best player... Alonzo Gee??... Good lord). I guess you'd be better off taking Rondo over him short-term, but I'd still do that trade without blinking. 

26 year old Rondo for the season:  12 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds, 1.7 steals... 45% shooting, 21% from three 59% from the line (37 minutes a game). 

I love Rondo.  I'd probably put him as a top 5 point guard right now... but there are a few players who are clearly better.  Kinda like I've always been willing to trade Pierce for LeBron.  It is what it is. 

Rondo is undeniably talented... but I've always kinda figured you could stick Andre Miller with the Big 3 and the guy would end up averaging 10+ assists.  My concern isn't about right now... my concern is what happens when Rondo is the top dog and his best teammates are Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  I mirror the Celtics in that I'm content with keeping Rondo... unless he can be traded for a better player.

[European NBA fan]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to close this thread???

The original post is quite sarcastic, and imo that is always a difficult place to start a valid discussion.

[LarBrd33]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to close this thread???

The original post is quite sarcastic, and imo that is always a difficult place to start a valid discussion.

His original post IS sarcastic.  And that's why it's a valid discussion.  By arguing for his point I'm actually arguing against him.  I genuinely believe we should trade Rondo for Williams in the summer.

Another random point... point guard rebounds get inflated when you are lacking big men who can pull down boards themselves.  We haven't had a dominant rebounding big man at any point in the past 5 years.  Guys like Glen Davis and Perk were always underwhelming on the boards.  Either they couldn't outjump their competition or they weren't tall enough.  So, they are better off just using their wide butts to box out their competition and hope the ball bounces to a guy like Rondo.  Size is one of our major weaknesses... it's no surprise that Rondo can snatch some boards with 36 year old KG and undersized Brandon Bass are the guys manning the middle.

[Celtics18]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again. 

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

Would it really be that painful to you? This sounds like a major "Trade Rondo" post. Speculation of how good John Wall will be is just that until he proves himself to be 'elite'. Rondo would have had well over 20 assists yesterday afternoon if different Celtics players weren't fouled after Rondo passed the ball to them in perfect position for a lay-up.

I get that Rondo isn't even an average shooter. It's just that he is so much better than everybody else at everything else. As he grows older and loses athleticism he will need to find other ways to dominate, but he is very savvy and I don't doubt that he will find a way. I am perfectly happy keeping Rondo for as long as we can. I fully believe he is player you can build around.

How is this a "trade Rondo" post?


He says he likes Rondo on this team, but would have to give him up if one of the few PGs (there are only three) that are better then Rondo. 



Rondo is a top 5 PG right now.  The three PGs that I have ahead of him are not older then him with a shorter career left.  They are all in the same age range (with Rose being a little younger)

Yeah.  I LOVE Rondo.  But I recognize he's a flawed player and pretty inconsistent. 

Take his last 5 games, for example. 

8 points, 14 assists, 6 rebounds, 1.4 steals 37% shooting, 14% from three and 50% from the line

Playing great.  Can't shoot worth crap, but playing good.  14 assists is great, but you realize that during those 5 games, Bass is averaging 15 points, Bradley is averaging 15 points, KG is averaging 18 points on 52% shooting, and Pierce is averaging 24 points on 46% shooting.   

You might say, "well they are scoring so much because Rondo is dishing them the ball"... ehhhh... I dunno about that.  Maybe partially.  But KG and Pierce are playing their best basketball all year.  It's no coincidence that Rondo's assists numbers are so high while two hall of famers are playing like hall of famers. 

Meanwhile you take a look at Deron WIlliams over the past 5 games (his team has won 4 out of 5).  His teammates are terrible. 

19 points, 14 assists, 3 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 38% shooting, 31% from three and 73% from the line. 

His FG% is terrible, but it's kinda to be expected.  He doesn't have hall-of-famers surrounding him.  He's the main main.  They are doubling him.  There is a ton of pressure on him.  IT's a wonder he can average 14 assists with the kind of garbage he has surrounding him.

Over that 5 game stretch, Wallace is averaging 16 on 42% shooting.

Brooks is averaging 10 on 41% shooting.

Humphries is averaging 14 on 50% shooting

Morrow is averaging 10 on 31% shooting.

Again, it's a wonder that Williams can get 14 assists with that kind of mediocrity surrounding him. 

It's a wonder that this season Williams has been able to even average 22 points (41% shooting, 35% from three, 84% from the line) and 9 assists with this kind of talent.  If he can do that with a terrible team... what could he do with KG, Pierce and Ray surround him?   Call me delusional, but I think Rondo would have a tough time putting up his 14 assists on Jersey.  You put ROndo on Jersey his Field goal percentage drops and his assists drop.  You put Deron on Boston and his field goal percentage goes up and his assists go up.  Deron is just better.

And as wdleehi says, there are 3 PG's who are unquestionably better than Rondo.  Chris Paul, Deron and Rose.  Some would bite the bullet on a Rondo for Westbrook trade as well.  (

Westbrook this year:  24.5 points, 5.5 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.7 steals 47% shooting, 33% from three and 82% from the line this season ... you gotta imagine his role would be different surrounded by this talent.  Less scoring and more assists.


And call me crazy but I would also trade Rondo for Kyrie Irving straight up without even blinking (especially considering Irving is on his rookie contract).  Kid JUST TURNED 20 and is averaging 19 points, 5.7 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal with 47% shooting, 42% from three, and 87% from the line (in only 31 minutes a game).  That's just SICK (even SICKER when you consider the talent surrounding him... those field goal percentages are UNBELIEVABLE.  Who is his 2nd best player... Alonzo Gee??... Good lord). I guess you'd be better off taking Rondo over him short-term, but I'd still do that trade without blinking. 

26 year old Rondo for the season:  12 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds, 1.7 steals... 45% shooting, 21% from three 59% from the line (37 minutes a game). 

I love Rondo.  I'd probably put him as a top 5 point guard right now... but there are a few players who are clearly better.  Kinda like I've always been willing to trade Pierce for LeBron.  It is what it is. 

Rondo is undeniably talented... but I've always kinda figured you could stick Andre Miller with the Big 3 and the guy would end up averaging 10+ assists.  My concern isn't about right now... my concern is what happens when Rondo is the top dog and his best teammates are Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  I mirror the Celtics in that I'm content with keeping Rondo... unless he can be traded for a better player.

Say what you want about Rondo's inflated stats.  Does Rondo make Allen, Pierce, and Garnett better or do Allen, Garnett, and Pierce make Rondo better?  For me the truth is probably that when they are clicking, like they currently are, they all help to make each other better.

Sure, Rondo's assist stats say he's a great passer, but watching him play is what confirms it.  I don't see how you can watch Rondo play and come to the conclusion that he's a mediocre floor general and that just about any decent point guard could do what he does. 

There are plenty of point guards who can do things that Rondo can't like hit threes and free throws, but I don't think there are any who have the vision, savvy, passing ability, and floor generalship of our point guard.

 

[CelticG1]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to close this thread???

The original post is quite sarcastic, and imo that is always a difficult place to start a valid discussion.

His original post IS sarcastic.  And that's why it's a valid discussion.  By arguing for his point I'm actually arguing against him.  I genuinely believe we should trade Rondo for Williams in the summer.

Another random point... point guard rebounds get inflated when you are lacking big men who can pull down boards themselves.  We haven't had a dominant rebounding big man at any point in the past 5 years.  Guys like Glen Davis and Perk were always underwhelming on the boards.  Either they couldn't outjump their competition or they weren't tall enough.  So, they are better off just using their wide butts to box out their competition and hope the ball bounces to a guy like Rondo.  Size is one of our major weaknesses... it's no surprise that Rondo can snatch some boards with 36 year old KG and undersized Brandon Bass are the guys manning the middle.

No matter how you look at it Rondo is still probably the besst rebounding pg in the league and incredible for his size. We've usually been a decent rebounding team besides this year, and rondo has always been steady with his rebounding. The guys has long arms and huge hands. Any time he gets a couple fingers on the ball it just sticks to him

[LarBrd33]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again. 

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

Would it really be that painful to you? This sounds like a major "Trade Rondo" post. Speculation of how good John Wall will be is just that until he proves himself to be 'elite'. Rondo would have had well over 20 assists yesterday afternoon if different Celtics players weren't fouled after Rondo passed the ball to them in perfect position for a lay-up.

I get that Rondo isn't even an average shooter. It's just that he is so much better than everybody else at everything else. As he grows older and loses athleticism he will need to find other ways to dominate, but he is very savvy and I don't doubt that he will find a way. I am perfectly happy keeping Rondo for as long as we can. I fully believe he is player you can build around.

How is this a "trade Rondo" post?


He says he likes Rondo on this team, but would have to give him up if one of the few PGs (there are only three) that are better then Rondo. 



Rondo is a top 5 PG right now.  The three PGs that I have ahead of him are not older then him with a shorter career left.  They are all in the same age range (with Rose being a little younger)

Yeah.  I LOVE Rondo.  But I recognize he's a flawed player and pretty inconsistent. 

Take his last 5 games, for example. 

8 points, 14 assists, 6 rebounds, 1.4 steals 37% shooting, 14% from three and 50% from the line

Playing great.  Can't shoot worth crap, but playing good.  14 assists is great, but you realize that during those 5 games, Bass is averaging 15 points, Bradley is averaging 15 points, KG is averaging 18 points on 52% shooting, and Pierce is averaging 24 points on 46% shooting.   

You might say, "well they are scoring so much because Rondo is dishing them the ball"... ehhhh... I dunno about that.  Maybe partially.  But KG and Pierce are playing their best basketball all year.  It's no coincidence that Rondo's assists numbers are so high while two hall of famers are playing like hall of famers. 

Meanwhile you take a look at Deron WIlliams over the past 5 games (his team has won 4 out of 5).  His teammates are terrible. 

19 points, 14 assists, 3 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 38% shooting, 31% from three and 73% from the line. 

His FG% is terrible, but it's kinda to be expected.  He doesn't have hall-of-famers surrounding him.  He's the main main.  They are doubling him.  There is a ton of pressure on him.  IT's a wonder he can average 14 assists with the kind of garbage he has surrounding him.

Over that 5 game stretch, Wallace is averaging 16 on 42% shooting.

Brooks is averaging 10 on 41% shooting.

Humphries is averaging 14 on 50% shooting

Morrow is averaging 10 on 31% shooting.

Again, it's a wonder that Williams can get 14 assists with that kind of mediocrity surrounding him. 

It's a wonder that this season Williams has been able to even average 22 points (41% shooting, 35% from three, 84% from the line) and 9 assists with this kind of talent.  If he can do that with a terrible team... what could he do with KG, Pierce and Ray surround him?   Call me delusional, but I think Rondo would have a tough time putting up his 14 assists on Jersey.  You put ROndo on Jersey his Field goal percentage drops and his assists drop.  You put Deron on Boston and his field goal percentage goes up and his assists go up.  Deron is just better.

And as wdleehi says, there are 3 PG's who are unquestionably better than Rondo.  Chris Paul, Deron and Rose.  Some would bite the bullet on a Rondo for Westbrook trade as well.  (

Westbrook this year:  24.5 points, 5.5 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.7 steals 47% shooting, 33% from three and 82% from the line this season ... you gotta imagine his role would be different surrounded by this talent.  Less scoring and more assists.


And call me crazy but I would also trade Rondo for Kyrie Irving straight up without even blinking (especially considering Irving is on his rookie contract).  Kid JUST TURNED 20 and is averaging 19 points, 5.7 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal with 47% shooting, 42% from three, and 87% from the line (in only 31 minutes a game).  That's just SICK (even SICKER when you consider the talent surrounding him... those field goal percentages are UNBELIEVABLE.  Who is his 2nd best player... Alonzo Gee??... Good lord). I guess you'd be better off taking Rondo over him short-term, but I'd still do that trade without blinking. 

26 year old Rondo for the season:  12 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds, 1.7 steals... 45% shooting, 21% from three 59% from the line (37 minutes a game). 

I love Rondo.  I'd probably put him as a top 5 point guard right now... but there are a few players who are clearly better.  Kinda like I've always been willing to trade Pierce for LeBron.  It is what it is. 

Rondo is undeniably talented... but I've always kinda figured you could stick Andre Miller with the Big 3 and the guy would end up averaging 10+ assists.  My concern isn't about right now... my concern is what happens when Rondo is the top dog and his best teammates are Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  I mirror the Celtics in that I'm content with keeping Rondo... unless he can be traded for a better player.

Say what you want about Rondo's inflated stats.  Does Rondo make Allen, Pierce, and Garnett better or do Allen, Garnett, and Pierce make Rondo better?  For me the truth is probably that when they are clicking, like they currently are, they all help to make each other better.

Sure, Rondo's assist stats say he's a great passer, but watching him play is what confirms it.  I don't see how you can watch Rondo play and come to the conclusion that he's a mediocre floor general and that just about any decent point guard could do what he does. 

There are plenty of point guards who can do things that Rondo can't like hit threes and free throws, but I don't think there are any who have the vision, savvy, passing ability, and floor generalship of our point guard.

 

Rondo is an elite floor general.  Not disputing that.  Other elite floor generals include (but are not limited to) Chris Paul and Deron Williams (both of which can also shoot).

I'm saying if you stick Rondo on the Nets where his teammates are Marshoon Brooks and Anthony Morrow... or stick him on Cleveland where his best teammates are Alonzo Gee and Anthony Parker... I don't think he has the same amount of room to roam around.  I think he gets doubled... and I think his teammates miss a ton of shots.  At that point, having no shooting ability whatsoever becomes a bigger problem. 

Point is, I don't know what Rondo can do on a bad team.  Chances are he'll struggle.  But I DO know what Deron Williams can do on a good team.  He lead Utah to multiple 50+ win seasons... took them to the Western Conference finals (and the 2nd round two other times)... all the while averaging 19 point, 11 assist with 51% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line (and keeping it going in the playoffs)

Rondo in the playoffs:  13.8 points, 8.5 assists, 5.8 rebounds, 1.9 steals... 44% shooting, 28% from three and 64% from the line (with 3 hall of famers surrounding him)

Williams in the playoffs:  21.1 points, 9.6 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 1.2 steals... 46% shooting, 40% from three, 80% from the line (while the top dog in Utah)

Call me crazy, but I'd take Williams over Rondo.  It's highly likely that Rondo would be less effective on a lesser team.   

I might be delusional but I see Williams as being bigger and better than Rondo. 

[Celtics18]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again.  

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

Would it really be that painful to you? This sounds like a major "Trade Rondo" post. Speculation of how good John Wall will be is just that until he proves himself to be 'elite'. Rondo would have had well over 20 assists yesterday afternoon if different Celtics players weren't fouled after Rondo passed the ball to them in perfect position for a lay-up.

I get that Rondo isn't even an average shooter. It's just that he is so much better than everybody else at everything else. As he grows older and loses athleticism he will need to find other ways to dominate, but he is very savvy and I don't doubt that he will find a way. I am perfectly happy keeping Rondo for as long as we can. I fully believe he is player you can build around.

How is this a "trade Rondo" post?


He says he likes Rondo on this team, but would have to give him up if one of the few PGs (there are only three) that are better then Rondo.  



Rondo is a top 5 PG right now.  The three PGs that I have ahead of him are not older then him with a shorter career left.  They are all in the same age range (with Rose being a little younger)

Yeah.  I LOVE Rondo.  But I recognize he's a flawed player and pretty inconsistent.  

Take his last 5 games, for example.  

8 points, 14 assists, 6 rebounds, 1.4 steals 37% shooting, 14% from three and 50% from the line

Playing great.  Can't shoot worth crap, but playing good.  14 assists is great, but you realize that during those 5 games, Bass is averaging 15 points, Bradley is averaging 15 points, KG is averaging 18 points on 52% shooting, and Pierce is averaging 24 points on 46% shooting.  

You might say, "well they are scoring so much because Rondo is dishing them the ball"... ehhhh... I dunno about that.  Maybe partially.  But KG and Pierce are playing their best basketball all year.  It's no coincidence that Rondo's assists numbers are so high while two hall of famers are playing like hall of famers.  

Meanwhile you take a look at Deron WIlliams over the past 5 games (his team has won 4 out of 5).  His teammates are terrible.  

19 points, 14 assists, 3 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 38% shooting, 31% from three and 73% from the line.  

His FG% is terrible, but it's kinda to be expected.  He doesn't have hall-of-famers surrounding him.  He's the main main.  They are doubling him.  There is a ton of pressure on him.  IT's a wonder he can average 14 assists with the kind of garbage he has surrounding him.

Over that 5 game stretch, Wallace is averaging 16 on 42% shooting.

Brooks is averaging 10 on 41% shooting.

Humphries is averaging 14 on 50% shooting

Morrow is averaging 10 on 31% shooting.

Again, it's a wonder that Williams can get 14 assists with that kind of mediocrity surrounding him.  

It's a wonder that this season Williams has been able to even average 22 points (41% shooting, 35% from three, 84% from the line) and 9 assists with this kind of talent.  If he can do that with a terrible team... what could he do with KG, Pierce and Ray surround him?   Call me delusional, but I think Rondo would have a tough time putting up his 14 assists on Jersey.  You put ROndo on Jersey his Field goal percentage drops and his assists drop.  You put Deron on Boston and his field goal percentage goes up and his assists go up.  Deron is just better.

And as wdleehi says, there are 3 PG's who are unquestionably better than Rondo.  Chris Paul, Deron and Rose.  Some would bite the bullet on a Rondo for Westbrook trade as well.  (

Westbrook this year:  24.5 points, 5.5 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.7 steals 47% shooting, 33% from three and 82% from the line this season ... you gotta imagine his role would be different surrounded by this talent.  Less scoring and more assists.


And call me crazy but I would also trade Rondo for Kyrie Irving straight up without even blinking (especially considering Irving is on his rookie contract).  Kid JUST TURNED 20 and is averaging 19 points, 5.7 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal with 47% shooting, 42% from three, and 87% from the line (in only 31 minutes a game).  That's just SICK (even SICKER when you consider the talent surrounding him... those field goal percentages are UNBELIEVABLE.  Who is his 2nd best player... Alonzo Gee??... Good lord). I guess you'd be better off taking Rondo over him short-term, but I'd still do that trade without blinking.  

26 year old Rondo for the season:  12 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds, 1.7 steals... 45% shooting, 21% from three 59% from the line (37 minutes a game).  

I love Rondo.  I'd probably put him as a top 5 point guard right now... but there are a few players who are clearly better.  Kinda like I've always been willing to trade Pierce for LeBron.  It is what it is.  

Rondo is undeniably talented... but I've always kinda figured you could stick Andre Miller with the Big 3 and the guy would end up averaging 10+ assists.  My concern isn't about right now... my concern is what happens when Rondo is the top dog and his best teammates are Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  I mirror the Celtics in that I'm content with keeping Rondo... unless he can be traded for a better player.

Say what you want about Rondo's inflated stats.  Does Rondo make Allen, Pierce, and Garnett better or do Allen, Garnett, and Pierce make Rondo better?  For me the truth is probably that when they are clicking, like they currently are, they all help to make each other better.

Sure, Rondo's assist stats say he's a great passer, but watching him play is what confirms it.  I don't see how you can watch Rondo play and come to the conclusion that he's a mediocre floor general and that just about any decent point guard could do what he does.  

There are plenty of point guards who can do things that Rondo can't like hit threes and free throws, but I don't think there are any who have the vision, savvy, passing ability, and floor generalship of our point guard.

  

Rondo is an elite floor general.  Not disputing that.  Other elite floor generals include (but are not limited to) Chris Paul and Deron Williams (both of which can also shoot).

I'm saying if you stick him on the Nets where his teammates are Marshoon Brooks and Anthony Morrow... or stick him on Cleveland where his best teammates are Alonzo Gee and Anthony Parker... I don't think he has the same amount of room to roam around.  I think he gets doubled... and I think his teammates miss a ton of shots.  At that point, having no shooting ability whatsoever becomes a bigger problem.  

Point is, I don't know what Rondo can do on a bad team.  Chances are he'll struggle.  But I DO know what Deron Williams can do on a good team.  He lead Utah to multiple 50+ win seasons... took them to the Western Conference finals (and the 2nd round two other times)... all the while averaging 19 point, 11 assist with 51% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line (and keeping it going in the playoffs)

Rondo in the playoffs:  13.8 points, 8.5 assists, 5.8 rebounds, 1.9 steals... 44% shooting, 28% from three and 64% from the line (with 3 hall of famers surrounding him)

Williams in the playoffs:  21.1 points, 9.6 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46% shooting, 40% from three, 80% from the line (while the top dog in Utah)

Call me crazy, but I'd take Williams over Rondo.  It's highly likely that Rondo would be less effective on a lesser team.  

Is it about wanting the guy who puts up individual numbers?

You also know what Deron Williams can do on a bad team.  We can debate his numbers and their meaning, but the truth is he's been able to lead the New Jersey Nets to one of the worst records in the league.

I don't get your point.  If you are suggesting that we are destined to field a terrible team after the big three retire, then I don't see the point in having Williams over Rondo.

If it'll make you happy to be a perennial lottery team, but at least you'll have a point guard who jacks up a lot of shots and scores a lot of points, then have at it.

I'd rather we kept Rondo and tried to put good players around him.   

[LarBrd33]

This thread is intended as sarcasm, but I support it.  I'd trade Rondo for Deron in the offseason without hesitation.  It's no surprise that Rondo's great play coincides with Kevin Garnett turning back the clock as an MVP candidate and Paul Pierce playing like he belongs on 2nd team All-NBA again. 

There was an article a while back comparing John Wall to Rondo and the numbers suggested that if they swapped roles, Rondo's assists would drop dramatically and Wall's numbers would inflate dramatically.  You gotta wonder what a star like Deron WIlliams could do on Boston.  Or more importantly... you gotta wonder what Rondo will do when the big 3 stop making things easy on him and his best teammates are the likes of Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  You have to fear that Rondo's lack of shooting ability will become a problem when he can't dump the ball off to three hall of famers.  I still see Deron as the 2nd best PG in the league (behind Chris Paul).  Rondo isn't on that level.  He's my 2nd favorite player on the Celtics, though... it would be painful to see the trade.

Would it really be that painful to you? This sounds like a major "Trade Rondo" post. Speculation of how good John Wall will be is just that until he proves himself to be 'elite'. Rondo would have had well over 20 assists yesterday afternoon if different Celtics players weren't fouled after Rondo passed the ball to them in perfect position for a lay-up.

I get that Rondo isn't even an average shooter. It's just that he is so much better than everybody else at everything else. As he grows older and loses athleticism he will need to find other ways to dominate, but he is very savvy and I don't doubt that he will find a way. I am perfectly happy keeping Rondo for as long as we can. I fully believe he is player you can build around.

How is this a "trade Rondo" post?


He says he likes Rondo on this team, but would have to give him up if one of the few PGs (there are only three) that are better then Rondo. 



Rondo is a top 5 PG right now.  The three PGs that I have ahead of him are not older then him with a shorter career left.  They are all in the same age range (with Rose being a little younger)

Yeah.  I LOVE Rondo.  But I recognize he's a flawed player and pretty inconsistent. 

Take his last 5 games, for example. 

8 points, 14 assists, 6 rebounds, 1.4 steals 37% shooting, 14% from three and 50% from the line

Playing great.  Can't shoot worth crap, but playing good.  14 assists is great, but you realize that during those 5 games, Bass is averaging 15 points, Bradley is averaging 15 points, KG is averaging 18 points on 52% shooting, and Pierce is averaging 24 points on 46% shooting.   

You might say, "well they are scoring so much because Rondo is dishing them the ball"... ehhhh... I dunno about that.  Maybe partially.  But KG and Pierce are playing their best basketball all year.  It's no coincidence that Rondo's assists numbers are so high while two hall of famers are playing like hall of famers. 

Meanwhile you take a look at Deron WIlliams over the past 5 games (his team has won 4 out of 5).  His teammates are terrible. 

19 points, 14 assists, 3 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 38% shooting, 31% from three and 73% from the line. 

His FG% is terrible, but it's kinda to be expected.  He doesn't have hall-of-famers surrounding him.  He's the main main.  They are doubling him.  There is a ton of pressure on him.  IT's a wonder he can average 14 assists with the kind of garbage he has surrounding him.

Over that 5 game stretch, Wallace is averaging 16 on 42% shooting.

Brooks is averaging 10 on 41% shooting.

Humphries is averaging 14 on 50% shooting

Morrow is averaging 10 on 31% shooting.

Again, it's a wonder that Williams can get 14 assists with that kind of mediocrity surrounding him. 

It's a wonder that this season Williams has been able to even average 22 points (41% shooting, 35% from three, 84% from the line) and 9 assists with this kind of talent.  If he can do that with a terrible team... what could he do with KG, Pierce and Ray surround him?   Call me delusional, but I think Rondo would have a tough time putting up his 14 assists on Jersey.  You put ROndo on Jersey his Field goal percentage drops and his assists drop.  You put Deron on Boston and his field goal percentage goes up and his assists go up.  Deron is just better.

And as wdleehi says, there are 3 PG's who are unquestionably better than Rondo.  Chris Paul, Deron and Rose.  Some would bite the bullet on a Rondo for Westbrook trade as well.  (

Westbrook this year:  24.5 points, 5.5 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.7 steals 47% shooting, 33% from three and 82% from the line this season ... you gotta imagine his role would be different surrounded by this talent.  Less scoring and more assists.


And call me crazy but I would also trade Rondo for Kyrie Irving straight up without even blinking (especially considering Irving is on his rookie contract).  Kid JUST TURNED 20 and is averaging 19 points, 5.7 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal with 47% shooting, 42% from three, and 87% from the line (in only 31 minutes a game).  That's just SICK (even SICKER when you consider the talent surrounding him... those field goal percentages are UNBELIEVABLE.  Who is his 2nd best player... Alonzo Gee??... Good lord). I guess you'd be better off taking Rondo over him short-term, but I'd still do that trade without blinking. 

26 year old Rondo for the season:  12 points, 11 assists, 5 rebounds, 1.7 steals... 45% shooting, 21% from three 59% from the line (37 minutes a game). 

I love Rondo.  I'd probably put him as a top 5 point guard right now... but there are a few players who are clearly better.  Kinda like I've always been willing to trade Pierce for LeBron.  It is what it is. 

Rondo is undeniably talented... but I've always kinda figured you could stick Andre Miller with the Big 3 and the guy would end up averaging 10+ assists.  My concern isn't about right now... my concern is what happens when Rondo is the top dog and his best teammates are Jeff Green and Avery Bradley.  I mirror the Celtics in that I'm content with keeping Rondo... unless he can be traded for a better player.

Say what you want about Rondo's inflated stats.  Does Rondo make Allen, Pierce, and Garnett better or do Allen, Garnett, and Pierce make Rondo better?  For me the truth is probably that when they are clicking, like they currently are, they all help to make each other better.

Sure, Rondo's assist stats say he's a great passer, but watching him play is what confirms it.  I don't see how you can watch Rondo play and come to the conclusion that he's a mediocre floor general and that just about any decent point guard could do what he does. 

There are plenty of point guards who can do things that Rondo can't like hit threes and free throws, but I don't think there are any who have the vision, savvy, passing ability, and floor generalship of our point guard.

 

Rondo is an elite floor general.  Not disputing that.  Other elite floor generals include (but are not limited to) Chris Paul and Deron Williams (both of which can also shoot).

I'm saying if you stick him on the Nets where his teammates are Marshoon Brooks and Anthony Morrow... or stick him on Cleveland where his best teammates are Alonzo Gee and Anthony Parker... I don't think he has the same amount of room to roam around.  I think he gets doubled... and I think his teammates miss a ton of shots.  At that point, having no shooting ability whatsoever becomes a bigger problem. 

Point is, I don't know what Rondo can do on a bad team.  Chances are he'll struggle.  But I DO know what Deron Williams can do on a good team.  He lead Utah to multiple 50+ win seasons... took them to the Western Conference finals (and the 2nd round two other times)... all the while averaging 19 point, 11 assist with 51% shooting, 40% from three and 80% from the line (and keeping it going in the playoffs)

Rondo in the playoffs:  13.8 points, 8.5 assists, 5.8 rebounds, 1.9 steals... 44% shooting, 28% from three and 64% from the line (with 3 hall of famers surrounding him)

Williams in the playoffs:  21.1 points, 9.6 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46% shooting, 40% from three, 80% from the line (while the top dog in Utah)

Call me crazy, but I'd take Williams over Rondo.  It's highly likely that Rondo would be less effective on a lesser team. 

Is it about wanting the guy who puts up individual numbers?

You also know what Deron Williams can do on a bad team.  We can debate his numbers and their meaning, but the truth is he's been able to lead the New Jersey Nets to one of the worst records in the league.

I don't get your point.  If you are suggesting that we are destined to field a terrible team after the big three retire, then I don't see the point in having Williams over Rondo.

If it'll make you happy to be a perennial lottery team, but at least you'll have a point guard who jacks up a lot of shots and scores a lot of points, then have at it.

I'd rather we kept Rondo and tried to put good players around him.   

It's about wanting a guy who is a better player.  Period.

Not sure why any of this matters, regardless.  Deron Williams is an unrestricted free agent.  If he wants out of Brooklyn, they are out of luck... we could just sign him.  And if we have the opportunity to sign Deron Williams ... WE BETTER SIGN DERON WILLIAMS (and I'm fully confident this is exactly what Ainge will attempt to do).  Then it's just about trading Rondo to the highest bidder. 

Non-issue, really.  More relevant topic is, "What can we get for Rondo if we luck into signing Deron?"...  Josh Smith, for example? Al Jefferson?  Is his value less than that?  Tough call. 

How about THIS pipe dream.  Magic get bounced in the 1st round.  Dwight wants out.  Magic decide to trade Dwight in the offseason before they lose him at the end of the year.   

Step 1:  Sign Deron

Step 2:  Trade Rondo + both 1st rounders and wahtever else Orlando wants for Dwight Howard.

Boom... window opened.
 

[Celtics18]

I disagree.  I don't think Deron Williams is a better player.