Is fatigue finally catching up to the Heat?

[Finkelskyhook]

The problems with the Heat are the same as they always were.  Riley did an atrocious job filling out the roster after the Not Yet Big 3.  Compare the starting 5 to the Celtics championship year.  KG then was clearly better than Bosh but you'd have to give the nod to Wade and LeBron over Ray and Pierce.  Now look at the other two.

Rondo 07-08
10.6 points, 5.1 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 49% from the field

Mario Chalmers this season
9.9 points, 3.4 assists, 2.7 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 46% from the field

Perk 07-08
6.9 points, 6.1 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, 61% from the field

Joel Anthony this season
3.2 points, 4.1 rebounds, 1.4 blocks, 53% from the field.

Chalmers is clearly a step below what Rondo was that year and Anthony is at least two steps below 07-08 Perk.  Then consider that Miami's best three bench players are two unathletic wings and a severely undersized power forward. As good as the Heat can look, this is a team with massive weaknesses.

Mike

As much as I despise the messiah's team...I find the comparison unfair.

The teams play/played a completely different style of basketball.  The messiah initiates the offense more often than Chalmers.  Chalmers is essentially a spot-up shooter once the ball gets past halfcourt whether he brings it up or not.  Rondo was a far more traditional PG.  

Our benches compare...Sort of.  Ours consisted of two severely undersized power forwards instead of one. With one undersized and one underconfident but athletic wing.  
 
They don't have Scal.  We did.  

[MBunge]

As much as I despise the messiah's team...I find the comparison unfair.

The teams play/played a completely different style of basketball.  

Which gets at another thing.  I'm not the biggest Doc fan in the world, but his decision to put the ball in Rondo's hands and force KG, Ray and Paul to function within an offense is clearly one of the smartest and bravest moves an NBA coach has ever made.  It gave the Celtics' offense a structure and identity from the very start that the Heat still don't have after 130 games.

Mike

[soap07]

As much as I despise the messiah's team...I find the comparison unfair.

The teams play/played a completely different style of basketball.  

Which gets at another thing.  I'm not the biggest Doc fan in the world, but his decision to put the ball in Rondo's hands and force KG, Ray and Paul to function within an offense is clearly one of the smartest and bravest moves an NBA coach has ever made.  It gave the Celtics' offense a structure and identity from the very start that the Heat still don't have after 130 games.

Mike

Yes, this is why Miami has the second best offense in the league this year and in the championship year, the C's were 6th.

[LB3533]

As much as I despise the messiah's team...I find the comparison unfair.

The teams play/played a completely different style of basketball. 

Which gets at another thing.  I'm not the biggest Doc fan in the world, but his decision to put the ball in Rondo's hands and force KG, Ray and Paul to function within an offense is clearly one of the smartest and bravest moves an NBA coach has ever made.  It gave the Celtics' offense a structure and identity from the very start that the Heat still don't have after 130 games.

Mike

Disagree, you put the ball in your best offensive player's hands and go from there.

[MBunge]

As much as I despise the messiah's team...I find the comparison unfair.

The teams play/played a completely different style of basketball.  

Which gets at another thing.  I'm not the biggest Doc fan in the world, but his decision to put the ball in Rondo's hands and force KG, Ray and Paul to function within an offense is clearly one of the smartest and bravest moves an NBA coach has ever made.  It gave the Celtics' offense a structure and identity from the very start that the Heat still don't have after 130 games.

Mike

Yes, this is why Miami has the second best offense in the league this year and in the championship year, the C's were 6th.

And which offense performs in the clutch and which didn't?  Who won the title and was the best team the entire year and who got beat last year and has only managed the 3rd best regular season record so far this year?

Mike

[MBunge]

As much as I despise the messiah's team...I find the comparison unfair.

The teams play/played a completely different style of basketball. 

Which gets at another thing.  I'm not the biggest Doc fan in the world, but his decision to put the ball in Rondo's hands and force KG, Ray and Paul to function within an offense is clearly one of the smartest and bravest moves an NBA coach has ever made.  It gave the Celtics' offense a structure and identity from the very start that the Heat still don't have after 130 games.

Mike

Disagree, you put the ball in your best offensive player's hands and go from there.

So, the Utah Jazz made a mistake all those years by not having Karl Malone handle the ball more?  The Celtics should have taken the ball out of DJ's hands?  Tony Parker and Manu should have just stood around waiting for Tim Duncan to do everything?  Really?

Mike

[MBunge]

And before there's anymore defenses of the Heat, let's be clear about something.

The Heat aren't supposed to be a good team.

The Heat aren't supposed to be a great team.

The Heat are supposed to be an all-time great team.

They've got the most talented three players in their prime on any one team since probably Bird, McHale and Parish.  This isn't a team that supposed to lag behind a Chicago Bulls team that's been without Derrick Rose for a significant chunk of the season.  It's not supposed to be a team that ever struggles to score.  This is supposed to be a team that wins "not one, not two, not three..."

Mike

[soap07]

As much as I despise the messiah's team...I find the comparison unfair.

The teams play/played a completely different style of basketball.  

Which gets at another thing.  I'm not the biggest Doc fan in the world, but his decision to put the ball in Rondo's hands and force KG, Ray and Paul to function within an offense is clearly one of the smartest and bravest moves an NBA coach has ever made.  It gave the Celtics' offense a structure and identity from the very start that the Heat still don't have after 130 games.

Mike

Yes, this is why Miami has the second best offense in the league this year and in the championship year, the C's were 6th.

And which offense performs in the clutch and which didn't?  Who won the title and was the best team the entire year and who got beat last year and has only managed the 3rd best regular season record so far this year?

Mike

A couple things: In 2008, Rondo didn't handle the ball in the clutch.

Secondly, "clutch" does not comprise the entire 48 minutes of a ball game. Miami, overall, has been the second best offensive team in the league - and a better one than the Celtics in 2008. If your argument is that Mario Chalmers should be handling the ball in crunch time for the Heat and that they would be best served doing so, feel free to do so.

and who got beat last year and has only managed the 3rd best regular season record so far this year?

What does this have to do with the fact that Miami has the second best offense in the league this year?

----


Your claim: Miami's offense "doesn't have an identity" like the Celtics did in 2008 - which they accomplished by "giving Rondo the ball" so that the Big 3 could "work within the flow of the offense."

The facts: Miami, without having an "offensive identity" are the second best offensive team in the league and better than the Celtics 2008 offense which had an "identity."

[soap07]

So, the Utah Jazz made a mistake all those years by not having Karl Malone handle the ball more?  The Celtics should have taken the ball out of DJ's hands?  Tony Parker and Manu should have just stood around waiting for Tim Duncan to do everything?  Really?

Huh. Was Karl Malone the best ballhandler and passer on the Jazz? Ditto for the Spurs?

For the C's, the gulf between DJ/Bird is far less than the gulf between Chalmers/LeBron.

[GreenFaith1819]

I'm holding out hope that we can get some revenge on them from last year. If we are healthy - we do have a small shot at beating MIA, but if we can't, or if we lose to someone else in the playoffs - I want MIA to beat LA in the Finals, if LA makes it.

To that extent, I hope that they are fatigued - just long enough for BOS to boot them out of the playoffs. But if we lose in the playoffs, to them or whomever, I'd rather it be MIA beating LA in the Finals (if LA gets that far).

Whether we like Lebron or not, as the NBA's best player, Lebron James NEEDS to win a title. And Kobe DOESN'T need to win any more - especially since LA is only one title behind us.

[the_Bird]

The problems with the Heat are the same as they always were.  Riley did an atrocious job filling out the roster after the Not Yet Big 3.  Compare the starting 5 to the Celtics championship year.  KG then was clearly better than Bosh but you'd have to give the nod to Wade and LeBron over Ray and Pierce.  Now look at the other two.

Rondo 07-08
10.6 points, 5.1 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 49% from the field

Mario Chalmers this season
9.9 points, 3.4 assists, 2.7 rebounds, 1.5 steals, 46% from the field

Perk 07-08
6.9 points, 6.1 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, 61% from the field

Joel Anthony this season
3.2 points, 4.1 rebounds, 1.4 blocks, 53% from the field.

Chalmers is clearly a step below what Rondo was that year and Anthony is at least two steps below 07-08 Perk.  Then consider that Miami's best three bench players are two unathletic wings and a severely undersized power forward. As good as the Heat can look, this is a team with massive weaknesses.

Mike

Well, the options that they had available to fill out the rest of the roster were very limited (it's hard to get a quality bench when the substantial majority of the dollars you can spend are tied into three players).  The consensus was very favorable to the Mike Miller signing at the time; his play has been very disappointing, but he was expected to be a multidimensional bench guy who could help in a lot of ways, including some PG-like duties.  The fact that he was so disappointing last year I think forced them to address the same position this offseason, filling out the bench with Shane Battier.

I'm not sure what else they really could have done, though.  They've pretty much been limited to MLE contracts and vet-minimum signings.  They've coveted a big man, but I'm not sure how they'd realistically acquire them.  Maybe you can quibble with them not using last year's MLE for a big man or a PG, but the kinds of bigs you get with the MLE are guys like Chris Wilcox. 

I still think the smartest thing they can do is offer Wade to Orlando, for Dwight Howard (if Dwight will sign an extension).  Orlando won't get a better offer, and the three-headed monster of LeBron, Dwight, and Bosh is much more complementary than what they have now. 

[Celtics18]

I'm holding out hope that we can get some revenge on them from last year. If we are healthy - we do have a small shot at beating MIA, but if we can't, or if we lose to someone else in the playoffs - I want MIA to beat LA in the Finals, if LA makes it.

To that extent, I hope that they are fatigued - just long enough for BOS to boot them out of the playoffs. But if we lose in the playoffs, to them or whomever, I'd rather it be MIA beating LA in the Finals (if LA gets that far).

Whether we like Lebron or not, as the NBA's best player, Lebron James NEEDS to win a title. And Kobe DOESN'T need to win any more - especially since LA is only one title behind us.

I don't share your feelings that Lebron James NEEDS to win an NBA title.  This is nothing personal against the man, but I'd much prefer it if he never won an NBA title. 

I actually think that having the best player in the game not win a title is good for the league and good for the game.  I continue to root for a league which I see as slowly moving away from the superstar, cult of personality model to the more team based model of basketball. 

Basketball is still a team sport despite most claims to the contrary.  No thanks to a Miami Heat title.  That would be the worst result possible in my view.

[soap07]

Miller really hasn't been all THAT bad. He's shooting nearly 50% from the field and 49% from 3 - a career high TS%.

A 12.6 PER for a bench player isn't that bad. He also actually has the third highest WS/48 of his career and is highest since 2006.

It's Battier who has been truly terrible.

Either way, I think the Heat are just coasting right now, which is worrisome, but whatever. I still think they can roll through the East.

[CelticG1]

And before there's anymore defenses of the Heat, let's be clear about something.

The Heat aren't supposed to be a good team.

The Heat aren't supposed to be a great team.

The Heat are supposed to be an all-time great team.

They've got the most talented three players in their prime on any one team since probably Bird, McHale and Parish.  This isn't a team that supposed to lag behind a Chicago Bulls team that's been without Derrick Rose for a significant chunk of the season.  It's not supposed to be a team that ever struggles to score.  Thisis supposed to be a team that wins "not one, not two, not three..."

Mike

Yeah the heat are supposed to be an alltime team. They should be embarrassed if they don't win this year and multiple other years.

It would more or less be like throwing KG, Kobe and Pierce together in their prime

They should be destroying record books already.

I hope their mentality, which I suspect isn't there yet will keep them from winning for as long as possible

[Edgar]

And before there's anymore defenses of the Heat, let's be clear about something.

The Heat aren't supposed to be a good team.

The Heat aren't supposed to be a great team.

The Heat are supposed to be an all-time great team.

They've got the most talented three players in their prime on any one team since probably Bird, McHale and Parish.  This isn't a team that supposed to lag behind a Chicago Bulls team that's been without Derrick Rose for a significant chunk of the season.  It's not supposed to be a team that ever struggles to score.  Thisis supposed to be a team that wins "not one, not two, not three..."

Mike

Yeah the heat are supposed to be an alltime team. They should be embarrassed if they don't win this year and multiple other years.

It would more or less be like throwing KG, Kobe and Pierce together in their prime

They should be destroying record books already.

I hope their mentality, which I suspect isn't there yet will keep them from winning for as long as possible

Kareem, Magic, Worthy... just for the record...about the same