Why Jajuan isnt playing

[hwangjini_1]

We saw last night why Johnson isn't playing. Gave us little or nothing in his brief appearance on either end.

Let's leave the rookies to Doc, and quit conflating their highly-questionable abilities, ummkay?

So a person gets 2 minutes of playing time once in a blue moon and you think every time he comes in he should look like KG or something? How can you question his ability when you haven't seen much of him at all? When he had a chance to play a lot of minutes when Bass went down, he played well! Earlier this season when AB was getting hardly any minutes he look downright abysmal! When Doc was forced to play AB, what do we get... a solid rotational player!

Actually, Doc was giving minutes to Avery Bradley from the get go. When Bradley "didn't look good"(in other words was missing most of his shots, because his defense has always been stellar).

When Rondo went down he chose Bradley over Dooling and Daniels to start at the point. he defended him when he was missing shots saying they would eventually fall because everything he had seen of Bradley in practice showed Bradley could make shots. So because of his excellent defense and Doc's confidence in his offensive abilities he stuck with him and Bradley developed.

JJJ obviously is not showing enough to off the court to instill in Doc the same confidence that Bradley was able to give to Doc with his off the court play.

This is the thing SO MANY CB POSTERS DON'T GET. Players have to earn time through what they show off the court in order to get on the court. This is a time honored tradition all the way down to high school basketball. You don't get playing time to prove to the fans that the coach is right or wrong. You earn playing time by impressing the coach with your game off the court and keeping it with what you show on the court and screw what the fans think.

Doc isn't obligated to prove to the fans that his decisions are correct. He has a long history showing his decisions are correct in developing talent. When players have earned their way onto the court they get on the court. When they haven't they don't.

good post nick. tp.

avery did earn his time on the court from practice and then showed doc he can play in-game defense, regardless of his shot following. i was very happy doc started him over dooling and vet status be dam ned in this case.

as for jjj, doc has decided that he simply is not at the stage yet to consistently provide the team with valuable minutes on the court. i am willing to trust doc since he has a history of playing rookies/young players when he thinks are ready to contribute as opposed to rushing them to please the crowd.

jjj seems to have physical talent, and i am hopeful that in a year or so more experience in practice will really pay off for him. i will enjoy watching him then a lot more than i do now.

[D Dub]

classic tweener.

not enough handle or D to play 3, waaaaay to skinny to play 4. 

even KG - who's skin & bones by NBA standards - has nearly 40 lb's on JJJ... 

[nickagneta]

When Bradley "didn't look good"(in other words was missing most of his shots, because his defense has always been stellar).

And that's not actually true.  Avery has always given great effort on defense, but he really wasn't any more effective on that end of the court than offense until...wait for it...he actually got a chance to play serious minutes without looking over his shoulder for Doc to scream and yank him the game.

Mike

Your opinion, which I think most would agree, is a wrong one. He has played outstanding defense from the get go and even last year showed tremendous defensive tenacity and one on one coverage skills. Heck Danny and Doc called him one of the best defensive prospects they had seen coming out of college in some time and I believe even made a comment regarding that he might be one of the best on the ball defenders in the NBA before he even stepped on the court his rookie year.

Your opinion is just patently wrong. His defense from the start of the year, from even before Rondo got hurt, was tremendous.

[nickagneta]

This is the thing SO MANY CB POSTERS DON'T GET. Players have to earn time through what they show off the court in order to get on the court.

*Sarcasm on*  Which is why Doc has immediately played Hollins more than JJJ.  *Sarcasm off*

A guy who couldn't play on the Cavs and doesn't have the slightest clue about Boston's offensive and defensive rotations just played 13 minutes in only his second game with the team.  JJJ has only played more than 13 minutes in a game 7 times all season.

So, who doesn't get what?

Mike

Perhaps Doc does more than just coach this team for three hours 3-4 times a week? perhaps he has seen countless hours of video on Hollins and analyzed it for Danny before Danny signed Hollins? Perhaps Doc after watching all that tape and seeing him in game action, decided he is world's better than Johnson at this point in time and a has a better chance to succeed? Perhaps Doc trusts KG and Pierce who said they have played with Hollins in the off season and trust his ability to perform? perhaps Doc knows that the other players on the team don't trust Johnson to perform cohesively and consistently with them? Perhaps Johnson sucks and your uninformed opinion(as compared to that of Doc Rivers, head coach of the Boston Celtics) is dead wrong?

[dlpin]

*Sarcasm on*  Which is why Doc has immediately played Hollins more than JJJ.  *Sarcasm off*

A guy who couldn't play on the Cavs and doesn't have the slightest clue about Boston's offensive and defensive rotations just played 13 minutes in only his second game with the team.  JJJ has only played more than 13 minutes in a game 7 times all season.

So, who doesn't get what?

Mike

Maybe Hollins is getting 13 minutes a game because the only other true center on the roster right now is Stiemsma? Because JJJ has to compete with Bass and KG for minutes at the 4, and would not be able to play the 5?

[MBunge]

Your opinion is just patently wrong. His defense from the start of the year, from even before Rondo got hurt, was tremendous.

His defensive effort was tremendous in pressuring the ball up the court.  He was far more likely to commit a foul than do something positive with it, though, at the start of the year.

Mike

[MBunge]

Perhaps Doc does more than just coach this team for three hours 3-4 times a week? perhaps he has seen countless hours of video on Hollins and analyzed it for Danny before Danny signed Hollins? Perhaps Doc after watching all that tape and seeing him in game action, decided he is world's better than Johnson at this point in time and a has a better chance to succeed? Perhaps Doc trusts KG and Pierce who said they have played with Hollins in the off season and trust his ability to perform? perhaps Doc knows that the other players on the team don't trust Johnson to perform cohesively and consistently with them? Perhaps Johnson sucks and your uninformed opinion(as compared to that of Doc Rivers, head coach of the Boston Celtics) is dead wrong?

So, you don't have any actual argument other than Doc being perfect and incapable of error?  Does he also change water into wine for the post-game win celebrations?

All you have is "perhaps".  What I have are facts.  Like the fact Hollins has been a bench scrub his entire career.  Like the fact that Hollins can't possibly have the slightest idea how the Celtic offense works or how the defense functions.  Like the fact that we did get to see JJJ play earlier in the year and, while certainly not great, he didn't suck so bad that Doc should be terrified of putting him on the court.

Oh, and pretty much every excuse you're offering up for not playing JJJ were exactly the same reasons given when Stiemsma couldn't get on the court.

Mike

[dlpin]

So, you don't have any actual argument other than Doc being perfect and incapable of error?  Does he also change water into wine for the post-game win celebrations?

All you have is "perhaps".  What I have are facts.  Like the fact Hollins has been a bench scrub his entire career.  Like the fact that Hollins can't possibly have the slightest idea how the Celtic offense works or how the defense functions.  Like the fact that we did get to see JJJ play earlier in the year and, while certainly not great, he didn't suck so bad that Doc should be terrified of putting him on the court.

Oh, and pretty much every excuse you're offering up for not playing JJJ were exactly the same reasons given when Stiemsma couldn't get on the court.

Mike

And yet Stiemsma is now regularly seeing playing time. Hmm...

Again, JJJ is a 4/3, perhaps the only position (in addition to PG) where we are actually fine. Hollins is a 5. That is why in that ONE GAME Hollins played 13 minutes. That is the same reason Stiemsma has gotten regular playing time and JJJ hasn't.

So unless you want JJJ playing center (where he clearly doesn't belong), he will be the third option behind KG and Bass.

[LooseCannon]

Johnson had a run in February of 6 games where he had 10 or more minutes.  In that time, he apparently didn't do anything to convince Doc that it was a good idea playing KG exclusively as a center and having all the PF minutes go to Bass and Johnson.

Maybe Doc subconsciously associates Johnson with the five-game losing streak that was part of that six-game stretch.

[nickagneta]

Perhaps Doc does more than just coach this team for three hours 3-4 times a week? perhaps he has seen countless hours of video on Hollins and analyzed it for Danny before Danny signed Hollins? Perhaps Doc after watching all that tape and seeing him in game action, decided he is world's better than Johnson at this point in time and a has a better chance to succeed? Perhaps Doc trusts KG and Pierce who said they have played with Hollins in the off season and trust his ability to perform? perhaps Doc knows that the other players on the team don't trust Johnson to perform cohesively and consistently with them? Perhaps Johnson sucks and your uninformed opinion(as compared to that of Doc Rivers, head coach of the Boston Celtics) is dead wrong?

So, you don't have any actual argument other than Doc being perfect and incapable of error?  Does he also change water into wine for the post-game win celebrations?

All you have is "perhaps".  What I have are facts.  Like the fact Hollins has been a bench scrub his entire career.  Like the fact that Hollins can't possibly have the slightest idea how the Celtic offense works or how the defense functions.  Like the fact that we did get to see JJJ play earlier in the year and, while certainly not great, he didn't suck so bad that Doc should be terrified of putting him on the court.

Oh, and pretty much every excuse you're offering up for not playing JJJ were exactly the same reasons given when Stiemsma couldn't get on the court.

Mike

Actually I was trying to make it simple for you since when I have presented facts such as Doc plays rookies(the minutes Doc has played rookies in the past) you have counter argued that Doc only plays rookies when someone gets hurt. Then when I have shown facts that this counter argument is wrong(such as when Doc has given minutes to rookies and young players simply because they earned it and not when they are replacing an injured player) you have pooh poohed that and gone back to your ridiculous assumption that Doc has some irrational hate of young players.

Here are facts:

Mike Miller won a Rookie of the Year award while being coached by Doc.

Celtic second and first round players that have talent have consistently gotten playing time once they have shown they are good enough to earn time on the court.

Doc has consistently given players that have been in the league and been traded to or signed by the Celtics mid season playing time to assess whether they fit in and can handle the system and Celtics' way of doing things right away. If they can handle it and perform, they get playing time, if they can't, they stop getting playing time. Really simple. There are a ton of examples of this.

Your hatred towards Doc shines through and is quite overwhelming. Doc isn't perfect. His rotations at times suck. His overplaying of minutes of some players and need to win every game is, at times, quite bad. His reluctance to give in when its obvious his team is going to lose is really hoorid at times.

But the one thing he is really good at, the proper pace of developing and judging young talent and bringing them along accordingly, is the one thing you continually perpetuate as being some characteristically flawed hatred in Doc for young players. It is wrong and ridiculously absurd given the amount of proof to the contrary.

BASICALLY, NO PLAYER HAS EVER BEEN PASSED OVER BY DOC AND THEN GONE ON TO BE A GREAT PLAYER ELSEWHERE BECAUSE DOC JUDGED THEIR TALENT CORRECTLY AND DIDN'T PLAY AND DEVELOP THEM.

Is this even disputable? Is there even one player that is an example that refutes this fact that you and many others have consistently developed as an urban myth on this website?

I don't think Doc walks on water or is beyond question in his decision making. But in this one particular area, I think you and the others that follow your lead are completely and utterly wrong and, quite honestly, just attempting to push through an agenda because 5 years ago you hated Doc and want to prove he isn't a good coach in an attempt to prove your unwarranted hatred to be valid. Doc proved 5 years ago to be an exceptional coach and proved you wrong and 5 years later you're still trying to prove your opinion to be correct when all proof shows you to be pathetically incorrect.

That's pretty sad.

[goCeltics]

jjj was picked 27th in a weak draft, he is essentially a 2nd rounder.  I think people expectations need to be adjusted if they though jjj is going to be an all star or even a starter in this league.

However saying all this there is hope left for jujuan, as Bradley was in a similar situation last year. 

[LooseCannon]

There have been 23 players drafted in the 27th overall spot since it became a first round pick in 1989.

Players with 60 or more starts in a season:

Elden Campbell (six seasons), Primo Brezec (two seasons), Jamaal Tinsley (three seasons), Kendrick Perkins (three seasons), Arron Affalo (two seasons), Darrell Arthur (one season)

So, a bit over 25% have been starters at some point in the career.  A GM with an eye for talent might be capable of finding a starter-caliber player at least one out of three times with a pick such as the 27th overall.  I would guess that the probability of getting a starter-quality player with the 27th pick is reasonably close to the probability of getting a HOF-quality player with the 1st overall pick.

[thestackshow]

He isnt playing because he isnt good enough to play, simple as that.

Just like Bradley wasnt good enough to play last year, this year hes good enough, and has improved so much that hes good enough to be a starter.

[jdz101]

He isnt playing because he isnt good enough to play, simple as that.

Just like Bradley wasnt good enough to play last year, this year hes good enough, and has improved so much that hes good enough to be a starter.

Yeah just as a side note I am getting some real twinges of excitement watching bradley at the moment. The kid has freakish athletic ability, and if he keeps developing his handle and his shot he could be an absolute steal for the 19th pick. His speed taking the ball down the floor almost reminds me of john wall. Noone can get in front of him.

Something for Jajuan fans to note also is that hes already played 70 minutes more than Avery did in his first season. And avery had a full 82 games to try and get minutes. So doc is giving Jajuan a fair amount of minutes for a rookie who isnt ready.

[RockinRyA]

I think with Doc, if you are a young player and want to have playing time, you have to show you can play defense. Probably the reason why Bradley got more playing time than moore, and also the reason why he gave more PT to Davis instead of Powe.

Jajuan, as much as i love his game, is very raw in defense, and he gets pushed around a lot and misses rotations. Doc allows more allowance for vets though as I am very frustrated when he still plays Allen even when his shot is off and getting burned defensively. I mean, it took a while for him to start benching Mikki Moore even though its been clear from the start that he is terrible.

I have no problem with bringing the rooks slowly. I do have a problem though when the game is out of reach and he still refuse to play them (prevent unwanted injuries on rotation players, or save fans from eye sore from watching dooling)