OUTCOACHED versus the Lakers today....?

[bostonman1]

If ANYTHING, Kobe is saying "Man....we were LUCKY to get this game, today. Rajon Rondo, alone, almost kicked our tails. If they would've had JO or Wilcox, this game might've been different."

Ummmm I don't think that is quite what Kobe is saying right now.  It's more like "Wow I really showed the Celtics how to execute offensively in crunch time.  Being down 5 I hit two tough jumpers and fed Bynum for an easy layup.  Meanwhile Rondo, Bass, KG, Ray and Pierce combined couldn't even score ONE basket to close out the game.  It's all about producing when the game is on the line and I am the only one who did that today"

[Tai]

This just sounds like a "play the rookies more" topic in disguise. We didn't score in the last 2:41 of the game, there's nothing to suggest that the bench would have won that game. Coping out what Bass and Ray did to make the argument that they should've been benched is laughable.

[manl_lui]

no Mike Brown did not outcoach doc, we lost because the lack of size we had, losing Wilcox is kind of huge, we need bigs that can box out and grab rebounds, Gasol and Bynum are both 7 footers who can rebound really well...we only have Garnett...

[TerreHaute]

I agree with the offense/defense substitution late in the game. With all the timeouts that get called, there are certainly opportunities to make those changes. However, the game is not on Doc. Ray missed a decent look at a 3 and Bass missed a wide open 17 footer. Both of those are shots that are very makeable that would have made the end of the game play out very differently. We may not have won even with those shots, but it certainly affects how the game is played at the end. Those misses are on the players. The coach calls plays to get those open shots in the last two minutes, but can't go out and shoot the ball for the players.

[GreenFaith1819]

If ANYTHING, Kobe is saying "Man....we were LUCKY to get this game, today. Rajon Rondo, alone, almost kicked our tails. If they would've had JO or Wilcox, this game might've been different."

Ummmm I don't think that is quite what Kobe is saying right now.  It's more like "Wow I really showed the Celtics how to execute offensively in crunch time.  Being down 5 I hit two tough jumpers and fed Bynum for an easy layup.  Meanwhile Rondo, Bass, KG, Ray and Pierce combined couldn't even score ONE basket to close out the game.  It's all about producing when the game is on the line and I am the only one who did that today"

Wellllll...if you call a VERY LUCKY pass and tip-in to Bynum "executing", then I guess it is what it is.

Kobe should also be thanking Metta for bailing him out, once again.

I ain't mad at BOS, in the slightest. If anything, I saw Rajon Rondo take a step, today. This was the FIRST GAME I've ever seen Kobe Bryant actually GUARD him.

THIS Rajon will shred Lin, Dwayne Wade, Chalmers AND DRose, if he brings it vs them. My knock on Rajon has been his consistency and lack of a J, but he seems to be getting rid of that label, to me.

This BOS team will go as far as Rajon Rondo takes them, and Man if Rajon continues to bring it like this, then MIA and CHI had better be ready, plain and simple.

[Lioney]

Philadelphia @ New York
Philadelphia bench; 42 pts 3 ast(Vucevic starter)
New Yoyk bench; 28 pts 5 ast

Indiana @ Orlando
Indiana bench; 34 pts 8 ast
Orlando bench; 30 pts 4 ast(Redick, Q-Rich starter)

Milwaukee @ Toronto
Milwakukee bench; 37 pts 11 ast(Gooden, Harris starter)
Toronto bench; 33 pts 6 ast(Bayless starter)

Houston @ Cleveland
Houston bench; 30 pts 12 ast(Dragic starter)
Cleveland bench; 49 pts 13 ast(Hollins starter)

Memphis @ Denver (4th quarter)
Memphis bench; 39 pts 13 ast(Speights starter)
Denver bench; 48 pts 9 ast

Atlanta @ Sacramento (half)
Atlanta bench; 12 pts 1 ast(Hinrich,  Pachulia starter)
Sacramento bench; 20 pts 6 ast

******************

Boston @ LA
Lakers bench; 15 pts 7 ast

and (the oscar goes to..)

Celtics bench; 13 pts 0 ast

Please...This is the problem...

Pierce 35 years old
KG 36 years old
Allen 37 years old

We need at least two players for bench.

No Green
No Wilcox
No JO
No Dooling

[CelticG1]

Also if you are claiming that Doc got outcoached aren't you exaggerating a bit much? I mean, if you think Stiems should have payed an extra 2 possesions late in the game is that really being outcoached or was it one mistake (in your opinion) during the game?

 Throwing a guy out there while he is cold, who has just come into the d-league, and who is not that great defensively anyway is an EXTREMELY risky move IMO

Celtics did lose a winnable game. Up 5 with 2:33 left in the game. I think Doc should do more situational substituting. Pietrus is the best wing defender on the team. And right now Steamer is the only true center.

As far as Steamer goes, I like the kid. Seems to have a good basketball big man IQ. I don't know why some people think he is not good at defense. He was defensive MVP in the D-League. That has to make you an ok defender in the NBA. And you are right, on the play he might have gotten called for the foul. But I doubt Bynum makes that hook shot while getting fouled and he might not make the free throws. He is only 64% from the line this year.


So it all goes back to coaching. Doc plays it safe with the undersized lineup and loses. Honestly, I've seen too much of that this season. Why not take the gamble?

So it looks like your Stiemsma complaint is irrelevant anyway since he left the arena in a walking boot

[Celtics18]

[



So it looks like your Stiemsma complaint is irrelevant anyway since he left the arena in a walking boot

What?!! I missed this.  Is Stiemsa now hurt, as well? 

[Chief]

Also if you are claiming that Doc got outcoached aren't you exaggerating a bit much? I mean, if you think Stiems should have payed an extra 2 possesions late in the game is that really being outcoached or was it one mistake (in your opinion) during the game?

 Throwing a guy out there while he is cold, who has just come into the d-league, and who is not that great defensively anyway is an EXTREMELY risky move IMO

Celtics did lose a winnable game. Up 5 with 2:33 left in the game. I think Doc should do more situational substituting. Pietrus is the best wing defender on the team. And right now Steamer is the only true center.

As far as Steamer goes, I like the kid. Seems to have a good basketball big man IQ. I don't know why some people think he is not good at defense. He was defensive MVP in the D-League. That has to make you an ok defender in the NBA. And you are right, on the play he might have gotten called for the foul. But I doubt Bynum makes that hook shot while getting fouled and he might not make the free throws. He is only 64% from the line this year.


So it all goes back to coaching. Doc plays it safe with the undersized lineup and loses. Honestly, I've seen too much of that this season. Why not take the gamble?

Here are the Defensive MVPs of the D-League:
2001–02 Jeff Myers, Greenville Groove
2002–03 Mikki Moore, Roanoke Dazzle
2003–04 Karim Shabazz, Charleston Lowgators
2004–05 Derrick Zimmerman, Columbus Riverdragons
2005–06 Derrick Zimmerman, Austin Toros
2006–07 Renaldo Major, Dakota Wizards
2007–08 Mouhamed Sene, Idaho Stampede, and Stephane Lasme, Los Angeles D-Fenders
2008–09 Brent Petway, Idaho Stampede
2009–10 Greg Stiemsma, Sioux Falls Skyforce
2010–11 Chris Johnson, Dakota Wizards

I'm going to go ahead and doubt your statement that the award means anything.

Let's look at MVP, just to make a point. This is the best player in the D-League:

2001–02 Ansu Sesay, Greenville Groove
2002–03 Devin Brown, Fayetteville Patriots
2003–04 Tierre Brown, Charleston Lowgators
2004–05 Matt Carroll, Roanoke Dazzle
2005–06 Marcus Fizer, Austin Toros
2006–07 Randy Livingston, Idaho Stampede
2007–08 Kasib Powell, Sioux Falls Skyforce
2008–09 Courtney Sims, Iowa Energy
2009–10 Mike Harris, Rio Grande Valley Vipers
2010–11 Curtis Stinson, Iowa Energy

Outside of maybe Matt Carroll, there's just no reason to believe that being anywhere near decent in the D-League means anything, especially against one of the best centers in the NBA.

I like Steamer and think he has a lot to offer between his shot-blocking and jump-shooting. He could certainly get better on defense over the course of the next year or two. I just don't want him to close out games and am not comfortable with him as the 3rd big on the team.

You don't think he is an ok defender? I do and I much rather have a ok center who is a good shot blocker guarding a 7 footer than a 6'7 (if he's lucky) pf.

[Tgro]

[



So it looks like your Stiemsma complaint is irrelevant anyway since he left the arena in a walking boot

What?!! I missed this.  Is Stiemsa now hurt, as well? 

Oh and if you are ready for some more bad news, try this on for size (bad pun intended) via Forsberg:

    As if the Celtics needed anything else to worry about with their bigs, rookie center Greg Stiemsma, who did not play the final 13 minutes on Sunday, left the Staples Center with a walking boot on his right foot (a precautionary measure as he moved around the locker room without issue immediately after the game; Stiemsma endured right foot ailments while in college at Wisconsin).

[theswitch]

Also if you are claiming that Doc got outcoached aren't you exaggerating a bit much? I mean, if you think Stiems should have payed an extra 2 possesions late in the game is that really being outcoached or was it one mistake (in your opinion) during the game?

 Throwing a guy out there while he is cold, who has just come into the d-league, and who is not that great defensively anyway is an EXTREMELY risky move IMO

Celtics did lose a winnable game. Up 5 with 2:33 left in the game. I think Doc should do more situational substituting. Pietrus is the best wing defender on the team. And right now Steamer is the only true center.

As far as Steamer goes, I like the kid. Seems to have a good basketball big man IQ. I don't know why some people think he is not good at defense. He was defensive MVP in the D-League. That has to make you an ok defender in the NBA. And you are right, on the play he might have gotten called for the foul. But I doubt Bynum makes that hook shot while getting fouled and he might not make the free throws. He is only 64% from the line this year.


So it all goes back to coaching. Doc plays it safe with the undersized lineup and loses. Honestly, I've seen too much of that this season. Why not take the gamble?

Here are the Defensive MVPs of the D-League:
2001–02 Jeff Myers, Greenville Groove
2002–03 Mikki Moore, Roanoke Dazzle
2003–04 Karim Shabazz, Charleston Lowgators
2004–05 Derrick Zimmerman, Columbus Riverdragons
2005–06 Derrick Zimmerman, Austin Toros
2006–07 Renaldo Major, Dakota Wizards
2007–08 Mouhamed Sene, Idaho Stampede, and Stephane Lasme, Los Angeles D-Fenders
2008–09 Brent Petway, Idaho Stampede
2009–10 Greg Stiemsma, Sioux Falls Skyforce
2010–11 Chris Johnson, Dakota Wizards

I'm going to go ahead and doubt your statement that the award means anything.

Let's look at MVP, just to make a point. This is the best player in the D-League:

2001–02 Ansu Sesay, Greenville Groove
2002–03 Devin Brown, Fayetteville Patriots
2003–04 Tierre Brown, Charleston Lowgators
2004–05 Matt Carroll, Roanoke Dazzle
2005–06 Marcus Fizer, Austin Toros
2006–07 Randy Livingston, Idaho Stampede
2007–08 Kasib Powell, Sioux Falls Skyforce
2008–09 Courtney Sims, Iowa Energy
2009–10 Mike Harris, Rio Grande Valley Vipers
2010–11 Curtis Stinson, Iowa Energy

Outside of maybe Matt Carroll, there's just no reason to believe that being anywhere near decent in the D-League means anything, especially against one of the best centers in the NBA.

I like Steamer and think he has a lot to offer between his shot-blocking and jump-shooting. He could certainly get better on defense over the course of the next year or two. I just don't want him to close out games and am not comfortable with him as the 3rd big on the team.

You don't think he is an ok defender? I do and I much rather have a ok center who is a good shot blocker guarding a 7 footer than a 6'7 (if he's lucky) pf.

I think he's an okay defender, I guess. I think he's much better as a help defender than he is in one-on-one situations. He's definitely not as good a one-on-defender as Bass. He also can't rebound for some reason. I'm just saying being defensive MVP in the D-League does not mean you are an okay NBA anything.

[CelticG1]

Also if you are claiming that Doc got outcoached aren't you exaggerating a bit much? I mean, if you think Stiems should have payed an extra 2 possesions late in the game is that really being outcoached or was it one mistake (in your opinion) during the game?

 Throwing a guy out there while he is cold, who has just come into the d-league, and who is not that great defensively anyway is an EXTREMELY risky move IMO

Celtics did lose a winnable game. Up 5 with 2:33 left in the game. I think Doc should do more situational substituting. Pietrus is the best wing defender on the team. And right now Steamer is the only true center.

As far as Steamer goes, I like the kid. Seems to have a good basketball big man IQ. I don't know why some people think he is not good at defense. He was defensive MVP in the D-League. That has to make you an ok defender in the NBA. And you are right, on the play he might have gotten called for the foul. But I doubt Bynum makes that hook shot while getting fouled and he might not make the free throws. He is only 64% from the line this year.


So it all goes back to coaching. Doc plays it safe with the undersized lineup and loses. Honestly, I've seen too much of that this season. Why not take the gamble?

Here are the Defensive MVPs of the D-League:
2001–02 Jeff Myers, Greenville Groove
2002–03 Mikki Moore, Roanoke Dazzle
2003–04 Karim Shabazz, Charleston Lowgators
2004–05 Derrick Zimmerman, Columbus Riverdragons
2005–06 Derrick Zimmerman, Austin Toros
2006–07 Renaldo Major, Dakota Wizards
2007–08 Mouhamed Sene, Idaho Stampede, and Stephane Lasme, Los Angeles D-Fenders
2008–09 Brent Petway, Idaho Stampede
2009–10 Greg Stiemsma, Sioux Falls Skyforce
2010–11 Chris Johnson, Dakota Wizards

I'm going to go ahead and doubt your statement that the award means anything.

Let's look at MVP, just to make a point. This is the best player in the D-League:

2001–02 Ansu Sesay, Greenville Groove
2002–03 Devin Brown, Fayetteville Patriots
2003–04 Tierre Brown, Charleston Lowgators
2004–05 Matt Carroll, Roanoke Dazzle
2005–06 Marcus Fizer, Austin Toros
2006–07 Randy Livingston, Idaho Stampede
2007–08 Kasib Powell, Sioux Falls Skyforce
2008–09 Courtney Sims, Iowa Energy
2009–10 Mike Harris, Rio Grande Valley Vipers
2010–11 Curtis Stinson, Iowa Energy

Outside of maybe Matt Carroll, there's just no reason to believe that being anywhere near decent in the D-League means anything, especially against one of the best centers in the NBA.

I like Steamer and think he has a lot to offer between his shot-blocking and jump-shooting. He could certainly get better on defense over the course of the next year or two. I just don't want him to close out games and am not comfortable with him as the 3rd big on the team.

You don't think he is an ok defender? I do and I much rather have a ok center who is a good shot blocker guarding a 7 footer than a 6'7 (if he's lucky) pf.

KG was guarding Bynum the entire game. Are you talking about Bass guarding Gasol?

[MBunge]

If you want to get on Doc for coaching, complain about his total refusal to give Bradley any minutes at the 2.  Yeah, he's undersized and yeah, him trying to guard Kobe isn't exactly a great matchup...but you can't tell me Bradley's not a better option at this point than Dooling. And don't tell me JJJ couldn't have been in the game opposite Murphy or McRoberts.

Mike

[CelticG1]

If you want to get on Doc for coaching, complain about his total refusal to give Bradley any minutes at the 2.  Yeah, he's undersized and yeah, him trying to guard Kobe isn't exactly a great matchup...but you can't tell me Bradley's not a better option at this point than Dooling. And don't tell me JJJ couldn't have been in the game opposite Murphy or McRoberts.

Mike

Maybe jj makes aa little more sense.

Still bradley would get absolutely raped as they would throw the ball down o n the block everytimr to kobe, and bradley wouldnt have a prayer down there

In the end it has nothing to do with being outcoached. Maybe you have a couple guys that you would have given a few more minutes to,  in hindsight, since we lost, but that has nothing to do with mike brown outcoaching doc

[coco]

Doc gets outcoached almost every night.  The one things going for him is that he is very personable, the players like him and will play hard for him.  But in terms of Xs and Os and subs, Doc ranks very low on the list.

Pretty good at plays out of timeouts thou.