Today's Knicks game is why you don't trade Rajon Rondo

[OmarSekou]

Looking at a few of the top teams, here are some players I would say are also not a defensive priority in the 4th:

Joakim Noah, Perk, (maybe) Joel Anthony, and (maybe) Dwight Howard (he gets special treatment to limit his effectiveness so he isn't usually a factor late).

There are other players who are limited offensively but it's masked because they have a PG or playmaker who can get them easy looks at the end of games to keep defenses honest.

When I say Rondo has a unique skill set it's because all the other guys I thought of who were similar to Rondo in the 4th are centers. Their role at the end of games is to find a spot they can hit an open shot from, crash the boards, and stay out of the way. Rondo is our playmaker. He's the guy who gets others easy looks and starts with the ball in his hands. When teams take away his ability to create for others he's dead weight. Our offense isn't set up for him to become a role player late in games. I think it needs to be because Rondo isn't the guy who will win you games late. But he could be the guy who stands at a spot, crashes the boards, and stays out of the way.

Rondo does not shoot like a PG. But on the flip side he doesn't rebound like a PG or play defense like a PG either. He can be an topflight on the ball defender when he needs to be, but his anticipation and ability to freelance make him  the type presence on D that's usually reserved for shot blocking centers. He eats up space on the court. That's why he gets so many steals and rebounds, but he also just generally disrupts what other teams do on offense which I'm not sure if they've measured.

So it really becomes what you value at the position. If it's that you think we need a scorer, so be it. But I don't see how that type of player fits with our team as it's currently constructed, and I know you can build a winning team WITH Rondo. It's a lot like Vick (except Rondo puts in the work). He's not in the traditional mold but you can win with him. Can he win a Super Bowl? With the right TEAM he has a shot. The Eagles took that chance with him over Kolb (your traditional QB/PG). Worst case is they'll be a competitive team for a few years and have a number of exciting games. I want the same for the Celts unless you can get a top flight player (Manning, Brady, Adrian Peterson or Patrick Willis and a serviceable QB).

If it's his attitude, I can see that as an issue. I see him as a Kobe-lite pathological winner type. He motivates teammates by demanding perfection, which doesn't work well. But when people say he doesn't care, I don't get that. The guy rolled his ankle late in the game, grimaced a little, but didn't say a word. You could see he was hurt but he still brought it. That's caring, that's heart.

[CelticsFanNC]

  Personally I think it would be short sighted to judge Rondo as a player before you put a team around him that can actually play up tempo consistently.

  I believe much if not all of his consistency issues are due to the Celtics as currently constituted being more suited to playing at a snails pace and not really suited to playing at the pace in which Rondo thrives.  He is a very special player in the open court.

  Eventually some team is going to put elite athletes around this guy and he will thrive, taking his game to a hole other level(or playing at his best consistently).  I hope it can be the Celtics.

  Expecting him to be consistent when we do not consistently play in a way in which he is as good as anyone in the NBA is like expecting Paul Pierce to be consistent on a running team.  Probably not going to happen.

[bostonman1]

A few snippets from Jackie MacMullan on Rondo.  Talks about what many here see regarding his issues with consistency and attitude...

Those "off" nights are why his name can't be placed on that "untouchable" list reserved for the very elite in the league. Talent is a gift, but consistency is an acquired trait.
 
The kid is making strides, but he's not there yet. He still gets caught up in the mano-a-mano moments that often come back to bite you. His courtside manner still grates on his teammates at times, as it did Sunday when he kept chirping at Brandon Bass until his exasperated teammate turned and said, "Shut the [expletive] up!" Rondo, expressionless, merely turned away.
 
In 47 minutes of playing time Sunday afternoon, Rondo was alternately patient, then in a big hurry. He made tough shots, then missed a slew of easy layups that simply rolled off the rim down the stretch of regulation.

[nickagneta]

A few snippets from Jackie MacMullan on Rondo.  Talks about what many here see regarding his issues with consistency and attitude...

Those "off" nights are why his name can't be placed on that "untouchable" list reserved for the very elite in the league. Talent is a gift, but consistency is an acquired trait.
 
The kid is making strides, but he's not there yet. He still gets caught up in the mano-a-mano moments that often come back to bite you. His courtside manner still grates on his teammates at times, as it did Sunday when he kept chirping at Brandon Bass until his exasperated teammate turned and said, "Shut the [expletive] up!" Rondo, expressionless, merely turned away.
 
In 47 minutes of playing time Sunday afternoon, Rondo was alternately patient, then in a big hurry. He made tough shots, then missed a slew of easy layups that simply rolled off the rim down the stretch of regulation.

By the same token MacMullen is comparing Rondo's efforts to that of a superduperstar, Garnett. Most of the biggest superstars in the game don't show inconsistency because:

1: They are their teams leading scorer and if they are off can't afford to just rebound better or play defense better because their teams will lose if they don't score. So they just jack up more shots.

2. They don't have huge giant holes in their games. They are all around superstar players. They do everything great.

Rondo is neither of these things. He's not a superduperstar and he does have a huge hole in his game. This is the reason he is not making max money. He knows this and the Celtics know this.

So sorry, Jackie and some of the people here but he is going to have 0 for 6 or 7 nights and barely score. He's not a scorer. He has a huge whole in his game in FT shooting and 3PT shooting(his mid range game is actually coming around). So if Rondo's numbers aren't consistent its because of these holes and the fact he isn't an overall elite basketball player.

He is an overall elite PG but that's because certain areas of his game are so superior for playing that position that it overcomes his shortcomings in other areas.

Is Rondo ever going to be the consistent 17-22 PPG scorer that Rose, Westbrook, Paul and Deron are? No. And unfortunately when people measure consistency, they measure scoring.

But he will consistently give you 9-11 assists per game, 4-5
rebounds per game, play tough defense while running your offense in an intelligent and efficient manner and he will always come up biggest in the biggest games.

So if you want the consistency of triple doubles, its not happening. That's not Rondo. If you want consistency of scoring, its not happening. That's not Rondo. He is what he is. One of the best PGs in the game but not one of the elite players in the game and he gets paid accordingly.

[Corey]

The question remains the same:

Is Rondo a player you can build AROUND rather than build WITH?

I think the answer is still no.

[heyvik]

The question remains the same:

Is Rondo a player you can build AROUND rather than build WITH?

I think the answer is still no.

As much as I hate to say it....No he isn't. i agree with you. Although all the analysts are saying that we aren't going to trade him and if we do, we won't get value in return.

[nickagneta]

The question remains the same:

Is Rondo a player you can build AROUND rather than build WITH?

I think the answer is still no.

Then build with him. He's paid reasonably and isn't killing the cap or the ability to trade for or sign players that you can build around.

Neither Danny nor Doc are saying he is the centerpiece for building a team around in the future. They are just saying that he will be here a long time because he is a good player, on a value contract and those type of players, especially starters who are amongst the best at their position in the NBA, must be kept or traded for better valued players.

[Q_FBE]

Today's game is why you trade Doc Rivers. Small Ball killed the Celtics. 11 of 15 Knicks offensive rebounds came when Doc made the switch.

This bench needs Ray Allen badly. They single-handedly almost gave the game away. Doc put Ray Allen on the bench. or Danny Ainge bring us Michael Beasley. Either way the bench needed a scorer.

If Doc Rivers is to blame for the team reverting to the Pierce iso offense for the entire 4th quarter, then yeah, this game didn't speak well for him.

WTH are you talking about? Pierce saved Celtics today. He went toe-to-toe with Melo. Rondo will get a lot of props because of his stat line, but he missed gazillion layups in the 4th

Imagine if he made all them lay-ups and put up 30 points and 20 assists with his 17 rebounds and 5 swipes. Those are Bird-Magic-Jordan style numbers.

I would hang onto ROndo and see if we can engineer a Rondo for Chris Paul sign and trade this summer with the Clips and then sign up DH12 and bring back RayRay at a midlevel for three years. 

[OsirusCeltics]

Gotta love Rondo: 9 pages of heated discussion.  Easily the most polarizing Celtic since Toine. 

Rondo and Toine are very polarizing, because they are/were very inconsistent

[LB3533]

Gotta love Rondo: 9 pages of heated discussion.  Easily the most polarizing Celtic since Toine. 

Rondo and Toine are very polarizing, because they are/were very inconsistent

Toine also had a knack for being a poor perimeter shooter and used to miss layups, but also drop triple doubles and brick free throws too.

Rondo is no where near the leader that Toine was and for a PG that's what you need to have some good qualities of leadership.

[Rtpas11]

 
http://ballislife.com/rondo-18pts-17rebs-20ast-rajons-top-triple-doubles/

[BballTim]

The question remains the same:

Is Rondo a player you can build AROUND rather than build WITH?

I think the answer is still no.

  I don't think that I've ever seen a meaningful distinction between "build around" and "build with".

[2short]

Today's game is why you trade Doc Rivers. Small Ball killed the Celtics. 11 of 15 Knicks offensive rebounds came when Doc made the switch.

This bench needs Ray Allen badly. They single-handedly almost gave the game away. Doc put Ray Allen on the bench. or Danny Ainge bring us Michael Beasley. Either way the bench needed a scorer.

If Doc Rivers is to blame for the team reverting to the Pierce iso offense for the entire 4th quarter, then yeah, this game didn't speak well for him.

WTH are you talking about? Pierce saved Celtics today. He went toe-to-toe with Melo. Rondo will get a lot of props because of his stat line, but he missed gazillion layups in the 4th

Imagine if he made all them lay-ups and put up 30 points and 20 assists with his 17 rebounds and 5 swipes. Those are Bird-Magic-Jordan style numbers.

I would hang onto ROndo and see if we can engineer a Rondo for Chris Paul sign and trade this summer with the Clips and then sign up DH12 and bring back RayRay at a midlevel for three years. 

don't count the layups he missed, consider his triple double numbers, these are not bird, magic or jordan numbers theirs were never that high
these numbers are wilt chamberlain & oscar robertson numbers

rondo nearly averaged a triple double in a playoff series
six years in the nba, 2 years of that would have been jr & sr years in college

I cannot fathom why people nit pick his game, lets watch it evolve.  How long did Billups take to get it all together?  Rondo is currently one of the top 5 pgs in the league.  He can dominate games like few PLAYERS in the nba. 

ps for jackie (best boston writer) - doc was yelling at bass as well, so is rondo yelling leadership? cuz if kg was doing it that is what it would be considered

[Celtics18]

Today's game is why you trade Doc Rivers. Small Ball killed the Celtics. 11 of 15 Knicks offensive rebounds came when Doc made the switch.

This bench needs Ray Allen badly. They single-handedly almost gave the game away. Doc put Ray Allen on the bench. or Danny Ainge bring us Michael Beasley. Either way the bench needed a scorer.

If Doc Rivers is to blame for the team reverting to the Pierce iso offense for the entire 4th quarter, then yeah, this game didn't speak well for him.

WTH are you talking about? Pierce saved Celtics today. He went toe-to-toe with Melo. Rondo will get a lot of props because of his stat line, but he missed gazillion layups in the 4th

Pierce KILLED the Celtics in the 4th quarter today.  He and the team got bailed out by that desperation 3, which was a bad shot that happened to go in.

The Celtics finally got back to actually playing like a team in overtime and they had a solid lead going into the last minute.

I'm not sure if we were watching the same game. Pierce had one of his best games this year. 7 huge points final 90seconds.  

Totally agree TP
I understand now. The over-loving of Rondo for most fans is a direct correlation to an underlying hate for Paul Pierce

Rondo  and Pierce are finally starting to play well together and the response from many fans is to bicker over who is better and to pit them against each other.  Pathetic.

[kozlodoev]

The question remains the same:

Is Rondo a player you can build AROUND rather than build WITH?

I think the answer is still no.

  I don't think that I've ever seen a meaningful distinction between "build around" and "build with".

It's very simple: it boils down to whether you need to bring in as a second star a superior player that Rondo fits with, or an inferior player that Rondo fits with. I think it's more or less a consensus that we need the former in order to be anything serious once Pierce, Allen, and Garnett retire.