Today's Knicks game is why you don't trade Rajon Rondo

[BballTim]

I have also found it interesting that the "pro-rondo's" love to say that when he has high assist totals he makes everyone better but when he has low totals it is because the old guys missed shots.

So he gets the credit when others hit jumpers but none of the blame when they miss. And he doesnt get blame when the other team forces him to score and he cant?

Convenient

  This is from an article that was on the front page a day or two ago, but someone on a Widards blog charted our "efficiency" (fg made vs fg attempted and turnovers) off of passes from Rondo. They found that the Celts score on about 35% of our fga/turnovers when the opportunity doesn't come from a Rondo pass and about 56% of our opportunities when they come from a pass from Rondo. I'd say that was quite an increase.

  The people who don't like Rondo and the people who talk about how he's a liability on offense watch him game after game and have no idea that his passing has such an impact on the game. That seems pretty convenient as well.

You can use stats to prove anything, 85% of people know that

There are plenty of reasons for that to be the number, he handles the ball the most of any player when our best shooters are on the court. He is far and away our best (if not only) player who creates true transition opportunities and those are obviously going to be converted at a higher percentage and also there is the huge benefit that even though he takes the second most shots on the team, he has the distinct advantage of never passing the ball to himself and depending on him to convert.

As i said earlier in this post, I think rondo is the best passer in the league, bar none. So do not group me in as a person who "doesnt like rondo". I do not like the gross overrating of him.

  So you're saying that he's the best passer in the league, but you don't understand why people say that his passing makes the other players better? Isn't that being intentionally dense?

Tim, you have never been able to answer me this question. If his value is so great and it is all his creativity and vision then why does the same thing happen in every close game.

Our offense shuts down the last 4 to 6 minutes when he is completely ignored as an offensive threat? If he can control the O so greatly with being a true scoring threat then why does it all just magically disappear when we need points the most?

And if you do not think that our quickest, most athletic, best ballhandling player being horrific at the foul line doesnt negatively impact our offense and ability to close out close 1/2 court games. You are just being intentionally dense.

Today he was 0-6 with a turnover and 3 assists and no foul shots (even though we were in the penalty) as the lead slipped away.

Really do not see the trend in these close games?

  The whole team usually plays badly down the stretch, not just Rondo. Clearly his ft woes hurt us down the stretch, I've never denied it. But, by the same token, the claim that he's completely ignored by the opposition isn't the case at all.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

tradingrondo would be this reams biggest mistake ...maybe EVER..! And getting gasol...giving rondo to LA...would be a SIN....!

[BballTim]

I have also found it interesting that the "pro-rondo's" love to say that when he has high assist totals he makes everyone better but when he has low totals it is because the old guys missed shots.

So he gets the credit when others hit jumpers but none of the blame when they miss. And he doesnt get blame when the other team forces him to score and he cant?

Convenient

  This is from an article that was on the front page a day or two ago, but someone on a Widards blog charted our "efficiency" (fg made vs fg attempted and turnovers) off of passes from Rondo. They found that the Celts score on about 35% of our fga/turnovers when the opportunity doesn't come from a Rondo pass and about 56% of our opportunities when they come from a pass from Rondo. I'd say that was quite an increase.

  The people who don't like Rondo and the people who talk about how he's a liability on offense watch him game after game and have no idea that his passing has such an impact on the game. That seems pretty convenient as well.

Today he was 0-6 with a turnover and 3 assists and no foul shots (even though we were in the penalty) as the lead slipped away.

Really do not see the trend in these close games?

He was also 2-3 with 5 points, 2 assists, and 5 rebounds in OT...and most of the shots he missed in the 4th quarter were easy layups that he normally makes.

Rondo misses a ton of easy layups, almost all of his shots are open. The issue is the trend of it happening in all close games. And the fact that the trend is so established that other  teams defensive strategy is to completely cave off him in any reasonably close 4th quarter, and it works.

  Rondo's got one of the best fg% on layups for point guards year in and year out. Most of his inside shots are challenged.

[Carhole]

I have also found it interesting that the "pro-rondo's" love to say that when he has high assist totals he makes everyone better but when he has low totals it is because the old guys missed shots.

So he gets the credit when others hit jumpers but none of the blame when they miss. And he doesnt get blame when the other team forces him to score and he cant?

Convenient

  This is from an article that was on the front page a day or two ago, but someone on a Widards blog charted our "efficiency" (fg made vs fg attempted and turnovers) off of passes from Rondo. They found that the Celts score on about 35% of our fga/turnovers when the opportunity doesn't come from a Rondo pass and about 56% of our opportunities when they come from a pass from Rondo. I'd say that was quite an increase.

  The people who don't like Rondo and the people who talk about how he's a liability on offense watch him game after game and have no idea that his passing has such an impact on the game. That seems pretty convenient as well.

Today he was 0-6 with a turnover and 3 assists and no foul shots (even though we were in the penalty) as the lead slipped away.

Really do not see the trend in these close games?

He was also 2-3 with 5 points, 2 assists, and 5 rebounds in OT...and most of the shots he missed in the 4th quarter were easy layups that he normally makes.

Rondo misses a ton of easy layups, almost all of his shots are open. The issue is the trend of it happening in all close games. And the fact that the trend is so established that other  teams defensive strategy is to completely cave off him in any reasonably close 4th quarter, and it works.

  Rondo's got one of the best fg% on layups for point guards year in and year out. Most of his inside shots are challenged.

I beg to differ, would love to watch a long string of games with you. Rondo shoots a high percentage on layups because he does not take the same kind of layups as real penetrators who look to create contact and score. Rondo fades from contact more than half the time and he receives more wide open (for the NBA) looks at the rim than any pg I see bc of KG's passing and quality sets.

[ejk3489]

Rondo misses a ton of easy layups, almost all of his shots are open. The issue is the trend of it happening in all close games. And the fact that the trend is so established that other  teams defensive strategy is to completely cave off him in any reasonably close 4th quarter, and it works.

But the fact that he scored in OT out weighs the reality that everybody has seen enough video that it is an established strategy, you are right.

And if PP doesnt hit an off balance 3, OT never happens. Was he intentionally saving it for over time?

Shooting 60% at the rim is considered missing a ton of easy layups? Alright.

And I never said that Rondo doesn't have trouble scoring in the 4th...I think that's well established not only with him, but with the whole team. I just think it's ridiculous to put all the blame on one player.

[OsirusCeltics]

Maybe it was just me, but I thought  Rondo took Jeremy Lin to School and showed him "can't do this ...my house!"

Rondo is the anti-thesis to Jeremy Lin
Rondo thrives in the full court, Lin thrives in the half court

[Carhole]

I have also found it interesting that the "pro-rondo's" love to say that when he has high assist totals he makes everyone better but when he has low totals it is because the old guys missed shots.

So he gets the credit when others hit jumpers but none of the blame when they miss. And he doesnt get blame when the other team forces him to score and he cant?

Convenient

  This is from an article that was on the front page a day or two ago, but someone on a Widards blog charted our "efficiency" (fg made vs fg attempted and turnovers) off of passes from Rondo. They found that the Celts score on about 35% of our fga/turnovers when the opportunity doesn't come from a Rondo pass and about 56% of our opportunities when they come from a pass from Rondo. I'd say that was quite an increase.

  The people who don't like Rondo and the people who talk about how he's a liability on offense watch him game after game and have no idea that his passing has such an impact on the game. That seems pretty convenient as well.

You can use stats to prove anything, 85% of people know that

There are plenty of reasons for that to be the number, he handles the ball the most of any player when our best shooters are on the court. He is far and away our best (if not only) player who creates true transition opportunities and those are obviously going to be converted at a higher percentage and also there is the huge benefit that even though he takes the second most shots on the team, he has the distinct advantage of never passing the ball to himself and depending on him to convert.

As i said earlier in this post, I think rondo is the best passer in the league, bar none. So do not group me in as a person who "doesnt like rondo". I do not like the gross overrating of him.

  So you're saying that he's the best passer in the league, but you don't understand why people say that his passing makes the other players better? Isn't that being intentionally dense?

Tim, you have never been able to answer me this question. If his value is so great and it is all his creativity and vision then why does the same thing happen in every close game.

Our offense shuts down the last 4 to 6 minutes when he is completely ignored as an offensive threat? If he can control the O so greatly with being a true scoring threat then why does it all just magically disappear when we need points the most?

And if you do not think that our quickest, most athletic, best ballhandling player being horrific at the foul line doesnt negatively impact our offense and ability to close out close 1/2 court games. You are just being intentionally dense.

Today he was 0-6 with a turnover and 3 assists and no foul shots (even though we were in the penalty) as the lead slipped away.

Really do not see the trend in these close games?

  The whole team usually plays badly down the stretch, not just Rondo. Clearly his ft woes hurt us down the stretch, I've never denied it. But, by the same token, the claim that he's completely ignored by the opposition isn't the case at all.

Not being intentionally dense at all. He can be a great passer and it can help you in the open court or steal a couple cheap buckets agame. He also takes tons of unnecessary risks with the ball and over passes that leads to turnovers.(great example his 2 on 1 with Ray vs a decaying barron davis today that was just a disaster) His passing is elite, but his passing does not win games at the highest level of competition because it isnt balanced out by the rest of his game.

Does that clarify my stance enough?

[Carhole]

Rondo misses a ton of easy layups, almost all of his shots are open. The issue is the trend of it happening in all close games. And the fact that the trend is so established that other  teams defensive strategy is to completely cave off him in any reasonably close 4th quarter, and it works.

But the fact that he scored in OT out weighs the reality that everybody has seen enough video that it is an established strategy, you are right.

And if PP doesnt hit an off balance 3, OT never happens. Was he intentionally saving it for over time?

Shooting 60% at the rim is considered missing a ton of easy layups? Alright.

And I never said that Rondo doesn't have trouble scoring in the 4th...I think that's well established not only with him, but with the whole team. I just think it's ridiculous to put all the blame on one player.

Why when it is the one person handling the ball, who gets all of the credit when the teams offense runs well?

If Rondo is the "engine that makes the celtics go and its most important player" then who else gets the blame when the engine stalls out?

And percentages are subject to other circumstances. For instance he is actually not god awful on a percentage bases from 18ft but he is also the only player in the nba that gets to take those shots almost completely wide open. Yeah there is a difference shooting x percent on 18fters with time to take a dribble and step into it as opposed shooting x percent on the move, off a jab step, or off a curl with a player underneath you and not sagging into the lane to prevent angles for teammates

[BballTim]

Maybe it was just me, but I thought  Rondo took Jeremy Lin to School and showed him "can't do this ...my house!"

Rondo is the anti-thesis to Jeremy Lin
Rondo thrives in the full court, Lin thrives in the half court

  Lin has little idea how to play the point. There were at least 3-4 times where Rondo was guarding Amare or Melo on the block and Lin just went about his business with no recognition of the mismatch whatsoever.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Look, lin is pretty good..but he is NO RONDO..so knock that talk off....please....

[BballTim]

Rondo misses a ton of easy layups, almost all of his shots are open. The issue is the trend of it happening in all close games. And the fact that the trend is so established that other  teams defensive strategy is to completely cave off him in any reasonably close 4th quarter, and it works.

But the fact that he scored in OT out weighs the reality that everybody has seen enough video that it is an established strategy, you are right.

And if PP doesnt hit an off balance 3, OT never happens. Was he intentionally saving it for over time?

Shooting 60% at the rim is considered missing a ton of easy layups? Alright.

And I never said that Rondo doesn't have trouble scoring in the 4th...I think that's well established not only with him, but with the whole team. I just think it's ridiculous to put all the blame on one player.

Why when it is the one person handling the ball, who gets all of the credit when the teams offense runs well?

If Rondo is the "engine that makes the celtics go and its most important player" then who else gets the blame when the engine stalls out?

And percentages are subject to other circumstances. For instance he is actually not god awful on a percentage bases from 18ft but he is also the only player in the nba that gets to take those shots almost completely wide open. Yeah there is a difference shooting x percent on 18fters with time to take a dribble and step into it as opposed shooting x percent on the move, off a jab step, or off a curl with a player underneath you and not sagging into the lane to prevent angles for teammates

  I think you need to watch more basketball if you think Rondo's the only player in the league who takes wide open long jumpers.

 Don't insult others' fandom.

[ejk3489]

Rondo misses a ton of easy layups, almost all of his shots are open. The issue is the trend of it happening in all close games. And the fact that the trend is so established that other  teams defensive strategy is to completely cave off him in any reasonably close 4th quarter, and it works.

But the fact that he scored in OT out weighs the reality that everybody has seen enough video that it is an established strategy, you are right.

And if PP doesnt hit an off balance 3, OT never happens. Was he intentionally saving it for over time?

Shooting 60% at the rim is considered missing a ton of easy layups? Alright.

And I never said that Rondo doesn't have trouble scoring in the 4th...I think that's well established not only with him, but with the whole team. I just think it's ridiculous to put all the blame on one player.

Why when it is the one person handling the ball, who gets all of the credit when the teams offense runs well?

If Rondo is the "engine that makes the celtics go and its most important player" then who else gets the blame when the engine stalls out?

I've never been one to give all the credit to Rondo when the team plays well, just like I don't only blame him when the team fails...so don't ask me.

[OmarSekou]

I beg to differ, would love to watch a long string of games with you. Rondo shoots a high percentage on layups because he does not take the same kind of layups as real penetrators who look to create contact and score. Rondo fades from contact more than half the time and he receives more wide open (for the NBA) looks at the rim than any pg I see bc of KG's passing and quality sets.

This is the issue people have with Rondo in a nutshell. If he scores differently it doesn't count because he's not a "real" penetrator. People argue that he's lazy for making the game look easy by making smart decisions. Rondo gets quality looks primarily because he's fast and picks his moments.

He's bad at the end of games because he's not a good shooter. Teams sag off of him. But it's not like they completely ignore him and it's not like he's the only player in the league who receives less attention during crunch time. It's just more obvious with him because he's one of the best players in the league.

[GreenFaith1819]

Hopefully, Rondo's play the last few games is evidence that he FINALLY has the keys to the car.

I think that some of the perceived conflict on the team has been because of the natural diminishing of the Big Three and the emergence of Rajon.

Hopefull this means that Doc has EVERYONE on the same page, and everyone knowing their roles.

Great Game by Rondo/Pierce.

FOH in a ROW! Nice to have some momentum again.

[BballTim]

I have also found it interesting that the "pro-rondo's" love to say that when he has high assist totals he makes everyone better but when he has low totals it is because the old guys missed shots.

So he gets the credit when others hit jumpers but none of the blame when they miss. And he doesnt get blame when the other team forces him to score and he cant?

Convenient

  This is from an article that was on the front page a day or two ago, but someone on a Widards blog charted our "efficiency" (fg made vs fg attempted and turnovers) off of passes from Rondo. They found that the Celts score on about 35% of our fga/turnovers when the opportunity doesn't come from a Rondo pass and about 56% of our opportunities when they come from a pass from Rondo. I'd say that was quite an increase.

  The people who don't like Rondo and the people who talk about how he's a liability on offense watch him game after game and have no idea that his passing has such an impact on the game. That seems pretty convenient as well.

Today he was 0-6 with a turnover and 3 assists and no foul shots (even though we were in the penalty) as the lead slipped away.

Really do not see the trend in these close games?

He was also 2-3 with 5 points, 2 assists, and 5 rebounds in OT...and most of the shots he missed in the 4th quarter were easy layups that he normally makes.

Rondo misses a ton of easy layups, almost all of his shots are open. The issue is the trend of it happening in all close games. And the fact that the trend is so established that other  teams defensive strategy is to completely cave off him in any reasonably close 4th quarter, and it works.

  Rondo's got one of the best fg% on layups for point guards year in and year out. Most of his inside shots are challenged.

I beg to differ, would love to watch a long string of games with you. Rondo shoots a high percentage on layups because he does not take the same kind of layups as real penetrators who look to create contact and score. Rondo fades from contact more than half the time and he receives more wide open (for the NBA) looks at the rim than any pg I see bc of KG's passing and quality sets.

  Rondo doesn't get more of his layups assisted than the other top point guards. I'd say that some of his layups come from quality sets, but keep in mind that Rondo's calling those sets and he calls sets/directs an offense as well as anyone you'll see. And, go ahead, watch a long string of games and see how many layups of Rondo's are a result of KG's passing. The number will be lower than you think.