Challenging the Green-Tinted view of Rondo

[OsirusCeltics]

I think alot of fans are blinded to the obvious defficiencies about Rondo and how its really affecting the team. He's not a good fit for the team
Let me say first Rondo is an all-star point guard, but not a superstar point guard

When did running become a requirement to winning a championship? If the Big 3 are plodding down the court, but still excecuting and hitting shots, I could care less. We shouldn't forget the playoffs are all about how well you do in half court sets. The Lakers in their back to back titles were probably the slowest plodding team ever, and had very little fastbreak points (especially the 2010 team)
 
The half court play is when Rondo's glaring weaknesses comes to play. He hogs the ball alot. He stands at the top of the key, dirbbles for 20 seconds and stagnates the offense. His jumphot makes other teams play 4 on 5, and makes Celtics easier to guard in the in the playoffs. Rondo has to peform [dang] near perfect for the team to win. It gets stressful, as the his teammates have to expend alot of energy and work extra hard to score points. You could make the case that Rondo's passing gives his teammates easy open looks. But if you think about it, if he gets 15 assists that is only 15 plays he completed. All of his other plays  are turnovers, holding the ball, shooting 3 pointers with 2 seconds on the shotclock, etc

I still can't get over the fact that inexperienced point guards in Moore and Bradley, along with Dooling made the Celtics offense run more smoothly that Rondo has this season. Not to say Moor and Bradley are the solution, but it really highlights that Rondo is not a good for this team

[vl819]

Couldn't agree more, Rondo's lack of a consistent shot really affects the now older, slower big three, especially in the half court where playoff games are won.  Rondo is a rare talent, just no longer the right piece to the puzzle.

[joshhhh]

You're absolutely right that Rondo isn't the right piece for this team, he is THE only piece.  He is a legit 10-10-10 threat on any given night.  Plays outstanding d, rebounds the ball AS much as our center (LOL), and is without a doubt the best all-around athlete on this team.  Hes 1st or 2nd in assists in the league and always looks to pass first, but his team mates shoot bricks, this isn't his fault.  Saying the offense runs smoother when Dooling, Bradley, or Moore are handling the ball is utterly laughable.

[chambers]

Wait a minute. We beat the Lakers with Rondo for a title, came up against them again and barely lost.
I don't get the logic. His shooters have lost their athleticism and ability to compete with younger players- getting open for those wide open shots is a step harder.

The game has also evolved from 2008-2010.
The Thunder and the Heat are the dominant forces with offensive speed and athleticism.
Memphis and Chicago are trying to create hybrids of the 2008+2012  era with rebounding size whilst being able to run the floor and abuse match ups in the paint.

[lightspeed5]

rondo elite passing is the best passing and most underrated aspect of him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRIWp6q68LU

rondo just needs someone elite and big that can dunk the ball...

right now, we have noone even close to being able to dunk like lebron did. the last time we had a dunker was shaq last year, and rondo was putting up stockton numbers with the large assistance of shaq lobs (82 assists in the first 5 games, record held by rajon rondo). rondo used a 39 year old and was breaking records left and right with him. imagine what is possible if we give rondo a young elite big who can also run with him. He is the best passer in the game.

edit: i re-read my post and it sounds like i was talking about bringing in dwight. it had nothing to do with that, but now that i think about it, dwight would be a beast with rondo lobbing him.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Wait a minute. We beat the Lakers with Rondo for a title, came up against them again and barely lost.
I don't get the logic. His shooters have lost their athleticism and ability to compete with younger players- getting open for those wide open shots is a step harder.

The game has also evolved from 2008-2010.
The Thunder and the Heat are the dominant forces with offensive speed and athleticism.
Memphis and Chicago are trying to create hybrids of the 2008+2012  era with rebounding size whilst being able to run the floor and abuse match ups in the paint.

I'm not going to go into the RR talk b/c really, this has been said 100 different ways in 100 different threads. To the point I highlighted in your response, when any of those teams get a championship playing that style I will agree with you! Mia didn't get to the finals b/c they breezed up and down the court... they beat us by hitting more shots in the 4th Q and beat the Bulls the same, all was done with half court execution! Dallas beat them the same way they beat us, in the half court! All that running up and down led to nothing b/c Dallas obviously executed better in the half court... if you saw different (Dirk and mates running up and down? I'd almost say Dallas was only slightly faster than our oldies b/c they were old too) then please show me the footage! When/if they do win, then we can all agree with you! Mia may win but it's because they are much better in half court set execution (sure they run but it's not why they win, they have lost to some young fast teams)!

[RJ87]

Didn't even read the OP - not gonna lie. There's a million and one other "Rondo isn't that great" threads, its just kicking the proverbial dead horse these day.

[steve]

You're absolutely right that Rondo isn't the right piece for this team, he is THE only piece.  He is a legit 10-10-10 threat on any given night.  Plays outstanding d, rebounds the ball AS much as our center (LOL), and is without a doubt the best all-around athlete on this team.  Hes 1st or 2nd in assists in the league and always looks to pass first, but his team mates shoot bricks, this isn't his fault.  Saying the offense runs smoother when Dooling, Bradley, or Moore are handling the ball is utterly laughable.

He should be a legit 10-10-10 threat but this year he's done it 3 games out of 34 games.   
The MAIN difference is Paul Pierce isn't going to the basket. 
It's so easy to play defense against us because all we do is shoot outside.  We need a faster team that makes cuts to the basket.  You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater by trading rondo.  Unless you are getting a new baby that can shoot.   

I wouldn't say he plays outstanding D, I think he often allows his man to get by him.  He is a top 3 passer but his team isn't slashing to the basket and getting open like before. 

[clover]

"But if you think about it, if he gets 15 assists that is only 15 plays he completed. All of his other plays  are turnovers, holding the ball, shooting 3 pointers with 2 seconds on the shotclock, etc"

With perfect teammates shooting 100%, Rondo's flaws must be manageable.

[crafty213]

There are much bigger issues than Rondo or PG play on the team. Ultimately how this team performs comes down to rebounding more than anything.  They average 95+ pts when they outrebound a team and less then 86 when they do not.  They are 4-14 in those games. They are also 11-3 when Pierce has 6 or more rebounds.

If you do not want Rondo to pound the ball then Doc will need to eliminate plays that center around Ray Allen using multiple screens to get open....because 9 time out of 10 that is what is happening.  A play is called and Rondo is waiting for the rest of the team to do it's thing.  The same thing happened to Bradley and if you actually took an average of the amount of time the ball initially gets out of his hand it would be lower than most claim.  There are times though that he needs to realize it quicker and look to create.

[2short]

This one was so bad I skipped over it and wasn't going to post but its morning and waiting for my coffee
"when did running become a requirement to win a championship"    that was seriously your question 
a championship team is a team that can run, play half court, defend and rebound

if you were to call our first 16 championships NOT running teams I'd really wonder or maybe you aren't counting them
Lakers showtime with magic? beautiful fast breaking team
chicago bulls
 

[European NBA fan]

You're absolutely right that Rondo isn't the right piece for this team, he is THE only piece.  He is a legit 10-10-10 threat on any given night.  Plays outstanding d, rebounds the ball AS much as our center (LOL), and is without a doubt the best all-around athlete on this team.  Hes 1st or 2nd in assists in the league and always looks to pass first, but his team mates shoot bricks, this isn't his fault.  Saying the offense runs smoother when Dooling, Bradley, or Moore are handling the ball is utterly laughable.

He should be a legit 10-10-10 threat but this year he's done it 3 games out of 34 games.   
The MAIN difference is Paul Pierce isn't going to the basket. 
It's so easy to play defense against us because all we do is shoot outside.  We need a faster team that makes cuts to the basket.  You don't throw the baby out with the bathwater by trading rondo.  Unless you are getting a new baby that can shoot.   

I wouldn't say he plays outstanding D, I think he often allows his man to get by him.  He is a top 3 passer but his team isn't slashing to the basket and getting open like before. 

I think Rondo showed against Jennings, that it's a matter of priorities. I know that many people think it's bad defense, when Rondo plays the passing lanes, but often that kind of defense makes the opposing point guard take a less efficient shot. The problems have started since our bigs allowed opposing guards to go to the hoop (Big Baby was actually good at stopping guards). Rondo should have adjusted his defense accordingly, and perhaps he is getting it now.

There are not that many triple-doubles in the league. Rondo having three of them so far this season is pretty remarkable
 

[Celtics4ever]

The real green tinted view here is on Avery Bradley.  People think he is all world.  I live out of market and I watch whatever league pass provides the C games on.  Rondo is looked upon a legit star.   Bradley is seen as a good on the ball defender.  But folks here think he is the second coming of DJ.

I hope I am wrong on this and I hope he exceeds DJ but we tend to over value our guys here.

[SHAQATTACK]

OP has alot of good points .  But Boston as a franchise is stuck in a simular situation as say Orlando with DH.  The problem is rooted deeper than Rondo.  He is a but as  symptom of the problem.

Both players are great, but may not be the best fit for their team as it is.

Problem is ...they are talents that are hard to come by.  IF we lose ROndo , I think or fear most fans fear that another Rondo calibre player won't show up . Same for Orlando,  they may never get another DH talent down there , at least for a long time .

Rondo is is great, the problem is getting the same calibre players to join him.  It seems easier to have an older Pau , who could fit right in . But thats all part of the overall problem here.

Tennis shoe contracts , show business and other such glamor have screwed up basketball, maybe only surpassed by auto racing.

I don't live in Boston.  But , growing up , when  NBA was mentioned LA , Boston , and Philly immediately came to mind as "THE " cities.  Somehow today,  the city has to build a better free agent attractiveness.

The business core of Boston somehow needs to work on making Boston more like the "DUKE" of the NBA .  A place while not glamorous ,but a place where real basketball players want to be once again.  

[mctyson]

I think alot of fans are blinded to the obvious defficiencies about Rondo and how its really affecting the team. He's not a good fit for the team

The Celtics have been to 2 NBA finals, won a Championship, came within 5 minutes of winning #2, won 4 straight Atlantic Divisions, and have had 50 or more wins for 4 straight years. Rondo has been the PG for all of these seasons.

Let me say first Rondo is an all-star point guard, but not a superstar point guard

If that is a "deficiency," I will take that every time.

When did running become a requirement to winning a championship? If the Big 3 are plodding down the court, but still excecuting and hitting shots, I could care less.

It isn't a requirement.  It just happens that the Celtics are at their best in the open court, even now, and are at their worst bogged down in half-court sets.  

We shouldn't forget the playoffs are all about how well you do in half court sets. The Lakers in their back to back titles were probably the slowest plodding team ever, and had very little fastbreak points (especially the 2010 team)

The Lakers had 2 Seven-footers who were post scorers, a 6'10" SF and a 6'8" SG, with an old PG to boot.  They weren't a running team because they couldn't run.  That was their system for their personnel.
 

The half court play is when Rondo's glaring weaknesses comes to play. He hogs the ball alot.

He is second in the league in assists per game.  People typically complain because he doesn't hog the ball enough.

 

He stands at the top of the key, dirbbles for 20 seconds and stagnates the offense. His jumphot makes other teams play 4 on 5, and makes Celtics easier to guard in the in the playoffs.

If you want to criticize the offensive strategy, criticize Doc.  He designs the plays, Rondo calls them.  If Rondo calls a bad game, then its on him.  Rarely does Doc ever say that Rondo called a bad game.  It is usually the opposite.

And about his jumpshot - he is shooting better this year from mid-range than at any point in his career, which includes all of those Atlantic Division winning teams with 50 or more wins and multiple trips to the NBA finals.  So clearly that is not the cause for the teams struggles.

 

Rondo has to peform [dang] near perfect for the team to win.

Isn't that a confirmation of just how important he is for this team?  Isn't that the fault of his teammates and his coaches?

It gets stressful, as the his teammates have to expend alot of energy and work extra hard to score points. You could make the case that Rondo's passing gives his teammates easy open looks. But if you think about it, if he gets 15 assists that is only 15 plays he completed. All of his other plays  are turnovers, holding the ball, shooting 3 pointers with 2 seconds on the shotclock, etc

So if he has another triple double, which he leads the NBA in, does that mean he only completes the plays he has assists on?

I still can't get over the fact that inexperienced point guards in Moore and Bradley, along with Dooling made the Celtics offense run more smoothly that Rondo has this season. Not to say Moor and Bradley are the solution, but it really highlights that Rondo is not a good for this team

The team is better with Moore, Bradley, and Dooling than with Rondo? Have you watched Dooling play this year?  I mean of all people...Dooling???

It never ceases to amaze me how much Rondo is underappreciated on this board and by C's fans.