Rumor: Rondo/O'Neal for Gasol

[Birdman]

Just saw on HoopsHype that the rumor is hot. Rajon Rondo and Jermaine O'Neal for Pau Gasol. We been hearing this all winter and its old news. I didnt think the Celtics would do this deal but now Im not so sure. I like Gasol but if we trade Rondo, who is running the point? Bradley is not the answer. If the Celtics can sign Deron Williams next season, then i would do it. But dont think Williams would come here. What does everyone think?

[clover]

Just saw on HoopsHype that the rumor is hot. Rajon Rondo and Jermaine O'Neal for Pau Gasol. We been hearing this all winter and its old news. I didnt think the Celtics would do this deal but now Im not so sure. I like Gasol but if we trade Rondo, who is running the point? Bradley is not the answer. If the Celtics can sign Deron Williams next season, then i would do it. But dont think Williams would come here. What does everyone think?

I don't know what I think of it.  But Danny has warned us a couple of times now that his next round of moves may be interim ones in order to make another ultimate move possible. And from Doc's comments in the last couple of days, it sounds as if he thinks they'll 'be ready' by this summer's free agency with the other pieces that they need in order to be competitive.

More obvious for such a circumstance might be moving parts of the Big Three to contenders mid-season, with the pieces taken back in return not necessarily intended to stay here longer term.

If the return pieces were good enough, I could see Doc and Danny making do without a real starting quality PG for a couple dozen games.

[toine83]

This trade would make the Lakers pass the C's 17 championships...

[Roy H.]

This trade would make the Lakers pass the C's 17 championships...

I don't think so.  The Lakers biggest strength is their Gasol / Bynum combo, which allows them to dominate other teams in the paint and on the boards.  Trading Gasol for a ball-dominant guard hurts them; it weakens their strength, and probably doesn't help a lot in the immediate future, as some of Rondo's strengths would be weakened playing next to Kobe, who demands the ball at all times.

[Roy H.]

This rumor comes from Peter Vecsey?  That pretty much guarantees 100% that it isn't true.

(Also, the idea that "the Lakers can trade Pau now because they have Rasheed" is laughable.  That's like saying the Blazers can trade Aldridge now because they signed Joel Pryzbilla.)

[Eja117]

Pau is 32. I don't think the trade helps us. We aren't running a retirement home here

[birdbrady]

Here's what I said about this rumor, and quite frankly none of my opinions have changed.

I haven't really read through this thread, but I'm going to post my thoughts on a 'Rondo-for-Gasol' swap, which I feel has legs.

First off, Danny has always had a high opinion of Gasol.  Back, I believe, in 2007, when Pierce was injured - there were serious rumors that we were going to trade Paul for a then 26 year old Pau.

Now, this deal on paper is tempting.  We are still a very underrated team here, and I believe we are 'in the mix' to an extent.  However, as currently constituted we are not a real contender because we don't close well at the end of games and execute when it matters (partially due to Rondo), and more importantly we are a below average rebounding team.  To quote a Hall of Fame Lakers head coach - "No rebounds, no rings" (that was Pat Riley if you don't want to look it up.)  Having Gasol would solve that almost immediately.  Gasol is still a great rebounder.  In terms of executing at the end of games, we'd have four plus passers at their position, including two of the five best passing bigs in the league with KG and Gasol.  The whole league is wide open, and this year is really going to come down to who stays healthy.  Never has an NBA season been more a crapshoot.  I still, in my heart of hearts believe the Miami-Chicago ECF will decide the title.  But as we have seen, some big names this year have been dropping like flies so a Rose injury (who's already had minor injuries himself) changes the whole complextion of the conference, much like what happened when we lost Garnett for the year in 2009 - as that Celtics team was well on their way to meeting the Lakers in the Finals again.  A good, but not great Orlando team represented the conference that year, and that very well could happen again this year.  I know Danny and Doc believe that too.  And that's what it'd even interest me to take a run at it with 4 HOFrs in your starting lineup, with two of them still in their primes (Pierce and Gasol), and one still playing at a high level (Allen).

However, after consideration - I just don't feel Rondo for Gasol is the play.  I'd be more interested in Gasol if I firmly believed we were a player away from being no-question-about-it top three contenders.  That *could* be the case, but it's a coinflip at best.  If it doesn't work, and all it gets us is a second round exit - this team is all of a sudden barren of any talent on the right side of 30.  Rondo is overrated by some Celtics fans, and I believe he should be dealt in the right deal.  He has some flaws that I just don't feel like you can win with him being your second best player, and absolutely not your first.  This team doesn't execute well at the end of games because of him.  They play one style of basketball for 42 minutes, and then have to play another style for the last 6 because he can't shoot, he can't make his FTs, and the defense tightens up so his knack for the fancy pass comes with second thoughts because you can't be that careless with the basketball at crucial times.  Back in 2008, Rondo was not even on the floor at the end of the games of, BY FAR, the two most important wins of those playoffs - Game 7 ECSF v. Clev (House, Ray, Pierce, Brown, Garnett)  and Game 4 Finals @ LA (House, Ray, Pierce, Posey, Garnett.)  Oddly enough, those were the two best games in which we closed the deal.  I think there's some of us that overrate Rondo, and some of us that are frustrated with him like me.  After the 2009 and ESPECIALLY the 2010 Playoffs, we all felt Rondo was the next generation Celtic that would be the bridge to another championship Celtic team - just as how Havlicek was the bridge guy from the Russell teams to the Cowens teams.  But Rondo just isn't that guy.  Too many flaws, and he has to be on the perfect team, where he's the third best player (like a Kobe-Bynum Lakers team, more in that in a moment.)

Rondo should be dealt in the right deal.  He should either be dealt to a team that overvalues him for younger pieces so this team can acquire multiple assets during its rebuild - OR, you wait for another Chris Paul type star to come on the market, and hope that said team values some of our other assets and takes them in a Rondo package for Superstar X (like New Orleans was going to do until they worked out that original deal with the Lakers and Rockets at the last moment.)

Also, Rondo on LA I believe would be perfect for them, AND perfect for Rondo.  They already have one of the great closers of all time (hint: his initials are KB), and already have a franchise center in place.  Bynum has developed into one of the dominant bigs in the game.  I see him being like this for at least six years.  Rondo would have a perfect big man running mate in Bynum to run the floor with.  Even after Bryant fades away, the Lakers finding another dynamite wing (doesn't have to be an all-timer like Kobe - just an athletic wing, like a Rudy Gay) would have them back as one of the elite teams immediately.

Also, for those of you who think the Lakers are dealing Dwight for Bynum - I don't see it happening.  The Lakers owner, Jim Buss, loves Bynum and is even hesitating trading him for Dwight straight up much less Bynum AND Gasol for Dwight (which it is rumored that Kupchak actually wants to deal both.)  Dwight is going to be a Net.  Since the Magic aren't getting back both Gasol and Bynum, they are waiting until the conclusion of the All Star Game (being played in Orlando, and they don't want Dwight coming back in another uniform) - and they will most likely send him to New Jersey.  The Nets can take back for more bad contracts than the Lakers can (who only have that TPE), as they have large expirings (Okur, Humphries), and can throw in more top notch draft picks (their own, and I believe they own a Rockets first rounder which I think is only top 10 protected.)  Also, Dwight's #1 choice is New Jersey (Brooklyn.)

But then, if you're LA.  If you're able to swing Gasol for Rondo - that is probably better.  What would you rather have, Kobe+Dwight and a roster full of overpaid, and mostly below average role players, or Rondo-Kobe-Bynum? Kobe+Dwight plus all their other junk (Fisher, Artest, Walton) leaves them with a roster much like this Knicks roster.  They'd be locked into a five seed for the forseeable future and won't be able to do anything until guys like Artest's contract expires.  Or do you take a run with Rondo (not being paid the max), Kobe and Bynum?

So all in all, this isn't the right deal for Rondo - trading him for a win-now player in Gasol when it's just a coinflip at best if it'd make us a legit contender this year (despite the fact we VERY WELL could be one, the odds just aren't worth it).  And to top it off, we'd very well help our hated rivals who are just one championship behind us.

One word:

No

I also gotta disagree with Roy.  I watch the Lakers a lot.  They have a strength now of dominating the glass, and it will take a hit, but only slightly.  Bynum is just a manchild on the boards now.  And Gasol isn't fitting in there that well.  With Rondo, that team will run and Kobe is still very effective on the fast break.  If they get Rondo, they will almost assuredly get Beasley and their lineup would be Rondo-Kobe-Barnes/Artest-Beasley-Bynum which is a far more balanced team than that weird team they have now (where 2/5 starters are uselss.)  Their offense is a mess and its because they have no PG.  Kobe will work very well with Rondo, he can run, still comes off screens, and obviously they will still do iso's.

Let the Lakers give up a first for Sessions.  I'm not sure I want to hand the Lakers the PG they have been desperately looking for.  And I keep souring on Gasol more and more.  He is clearly declining and is still on the book for max money for two more years.  When you aren't a contender, there's no sense paying declining guys max salaries.

[Birdman]

Pau is 32. I don't think the trade helps us. We aren't running a retirement home here

Yea, thats another point. Gasol is 32.

[Cman]

Pau is 32. I don't think the trade helps us. We aren't running a retirement home here

Yea, thats another point. Gasol is 32.

... which is why this is likely in the category of an "interim trade" i.e.: more of a short term move, with something bigger up the sleeve.

[Roy H.]

If they get Rondo, they will almost assuredly get Beasley

What is this based on?  "Almost assuredly" seems like fairly strong language.  Who are the Lakers sending to Minnesota?

[birdbrady]

If they get Rondo, they will almost assuredly get Beasley

What is this based on?  "Almost assuredly" seems like fairly strong language.  Who are the Lakers sending to Minnesota?

Trade exception and they have two firsts to work with.  Could even throw in Goudelock.

[hpantazo]

Pau is 32. I don't think the trade helps us. We aren't running a retirement home here

Yea, thats another point. Gasol is 32.

... which is why this is likely in the category of an "interim trade" i.e.: more of a short term move, with something bigger up the sleeve.

how does that help us to make a bigger move?

[Chris]

If they get Rondo, they will almost assuredly get Beasley

What is this based on?  "Almost assuredly" seems like fairly strong language.  Who are the Lakers sending to Minnesota?

Trade exception and they have two firsts to work with.  Could even throw in Goudelock.

Well, I think they would try to hold on to those picks for Howard.  But yeah, the trade exception would be how they would do it. 

Anyways, if the C's were able to swap Rondo and JO straight up for Gasol, it would be a HUGE coup.  Gasol fits in with this core so much better than Rondo does, and at the moment it is a heck of a lot easier to find a solid PG than big man.  I would love this move, but I still find it very hard to believe that the Lakers wouldn't need more.

[heitingas]

Pau is 32. I don't think the trade helps us. We aren't running a retirement home here

Yea, thats another point. Gasol is 32.

... which is why this is likely in the category of an "interim trade" i.e.: more of a short term move, with something bigger up the sleeve.

how does that help us to make a bigger move?

Maybe Gasol/Pierce + our two picks for Howard/Turkoglu ?

[birdbrady]

If they get Rondo, they will almost assuredly get Beasley

What is this based on?  "Almost assuredly" seems like fairly strong language.  Who are the Lakers sending to Minnesota?

Trade exception and they have two firsts to work with.  Could even throw in Goudelock.

Well, I think they would try to hold on to those picks for Howard.  But yeah, the trade exception would be how they would do it. 

Well once they trade Gasol, I think they are out of it for Howard.  Bynum+2 picks is not going to get it done.  Besides, Bynum is a free agent after next season so they will have to go through the same thing with Bynum as they are going through with Howard now.  New Jersey is almost assuredly going to offer:

Lopez
Brooks
Humphries (good player+expiring)
Okur (big expiring)
Unprotected lotto pick this year
Rockets 1st this year (lotto protected)
Another 1st down the line

LA also can't take back the bad contracts on Orlando the way the Nets can too.  Now Orlando wants to stay competitive so they won't take back all of that from NJ, but some team is gonna get in there and offer a good veteran for Brooks, or that Jersey lotto pick (I suggested us with Pierce.)  But anyways, this is a thread for another day.  I'm just basically pointing out that if LA trades Gasol, then they have no chance at Dwight.  Heck, what if NY came at Orlando with an Amare+Chandler+Lin+Fields package??

Anyways, if the C's were able to swap Rondo and JO straight up for Gasol, it would be a HUGE coup.  Gasol fits in with this core so much better than Rondo does, and at the moment it is a heck of a lot easier to find a solid PG than big man.  I would love this move, but I still find it very hard to believe that the Lakers wouldn't need more.

Meh, like I said before with that really long post.  Believe me Gasol is a big upgrade but what is the point? I know this is a Simmons' wet dream, to turn the Celtics into a 'dangerous 6 seed' but is that all its for? To win a playoff series? And it weakens us GREATLY down the road? If we had a good shot at winning it this year, I'm interested.  But this team has no shot.  We aren't a contender and we aren't a player away from it either.