i'm just about to throw in the white towel...

[greenlion]

i love these guys, but i'm probably a few games away of giving up on our season..there's nobody else who can help us now, no dramatic trades, no blockbuster deals, no silver "lin-ning's" ahead of us that we can count on, that is why they should all believe in themselves that they can do it...i am definitely wishful thinking, but if that's what's left of what i could hold onto, i'll gladly grab it now...will somebody turn "ON" the switch, please? and make it fast before we call it a season....

[esel1000]

its hard to be an optimist huh? the teams 15-15 and we're through with the easier part of the schedule... yep can't argue with that

[pearljammer10]

Ugh...The Twolves are 16 and 16.

[wahz]

I hate the way these guys coast and its come back to bite them over and over and over and over

They NEVER coasted during the title run. What did they learn from it? NOTHING! They learned NOTHING!

They have horrible habits, they don't stay in front of their guys, they don't box out and Rondo is almost always ahead on the break? Is it age? Maybe but its effort too.

The coach seems to like to not practice so he is a "Players coach." Great.

He also likes to really pick on the young guys if he ever plays them. Great.

I felt so many of these things in 2010. I was so ecstatic to see the switch flipped, but it was so much about Sheed showing up finally and playoff Rondo. When those guys floundered that year the title went away.

I am in seattle and spent thousands getting to Boston to watch that 5th game against LA. I thought we had it after that. I'll never get over it.

Every day I wonder if they do it again. After that 5-9 start and then the great run after it looked like they woke up. But now we are back in mediocrity

I wonder if KG is gone already based in today. But I wonder more why oh why did DA do so much work to prepare for what we do this off season...at the cost of personel moves the last 4 years

[Senninsage]

It's crystal clear, isn't it? This team isn't playing like they want to win a championship, and so they won't win one. This team is playing like a team that has no pride and is just settling every step of the way. They aren't fighting. They aren't out there playing each game like it's their last.

It's pretty embarrassing. I'm still a celtics fan and will be until Ray Allen lands on a different team (Yes, I follow Ray Allen to whichever team he plays for, technically), but anyone can see that this team is likely going nowhere fast. Everybody on this team is playing scared from the looks of it. They are too afraid to sometimes take the good looking jumper. Everybody is out there second guessing themselves, waiting for someone to rise up and be the hero that saves the day.

[LarBrd33]

It has to be said in every one of these threads.  

This team doesn't have a starting center.  They have no size.  The Perk trade couldn't have worked out any worse.  Not only is Jeff Green out for the season, but Krstik is playing overseas.  Shaq retired, our David West signing fell through and we're left with the corpse of Jermaine O'Neal starting.

If you're JUST NOW considering throwing in the white towel, you're some combination of crazed homer or powerfully naive.  I haven't bothered watching a full game since the first week of the season.  We do not have the talent to compete and we have yet to beat a single contender all season.  

I guess it took Danny Ainge to come right out and say, "we aren't a contender" for some people to take it seriously.  We're too good to tank and not good enough to win a title.  

Welcome to basketball hell.

There's a couple things that can salvage this season from my perspective.  

#1 - A starting center falls out of the sky.  I had Chris Kaman in mind the second the Hornets/Clippers trade went down.  Sounds like he's going to Miami if bought out though.   We'd also need some additional help... a Wilson Chandler for example, but it sounds like he's signing with Denver if he comes back to the States this year.

#2 - We blow it up.  I'd be invested in whatever young players we acquired and rooting for this team to lose ala 2007.  Tank, baby!... Tank!!  I mean seriously it would be depressing as heck at first, but at least a young prospect or two would give me a reason to turn on the TV.

[LarBrd33]

It's kind of annoying when people just assume I'm being a pessimist.  I love this team.

If you take this team right now and add Kendrick Perkins and Tony Allen (both who are thriving in their starting roles for winning teams) ... tell me this team wouldn't be different.  Even Krstik and Jeff Green would make a difference.

But that's not all... James Posey was in his prime for the 08 Celtics.  He played stellar defense and hit a 1.4 threes a game on 38% shooting.  He spread the floor for the team and was a massive contributor.  Add a prime James Posey on this team and tell me it wouldn't make a difference.  (I'm sure that's what they had in mind when they signed Pietrus, but it's not the same)

Eddie House was a one-dimensional player, but he was a huge role player for us.  Hit 1.5 threes a night... 40% from three... spread the floor, gave us HUGE energy every time he came in.  Huge contributor.  Tell me having prime Eddie House on this team wouldn't make a difference (I'm sure that's what they had in mind when they signed Dooling, but Dooling is a bum).

Leon Powe was a beast when he played for us in 08.... 57% shooting... 8 points, 4 rebounds in 14 minutes.  Key big man off the bench.  To be fair, I'll pretend Bass (48% shooting... 11 points, 6 rebounds in 29 minutes) is a wash and move on.

And then of course you had the crafty-yet-capable vets who were added late for the playoff push... Sam Cassell and PJ Brown.  I take 2008 versions of those two guys over Avery Bradley and Jermaine O'Neal 10 times out of 10.

Now of course there were a few useless bench warmers on those teams (Glen Davis, Gabe Pruitt, Pollard, Scal) like there are useless bench warmers on this team (Johnson, Moore, Sasha, Wilcox)... the entire lot of them are irrelevant.

Also can't underestimate the impact of a certain defensive guru who is currently the head coach of the top team in the league.

Point being... this team has VERY LITTLE in common with the Celtic team I saw win a title.  Pierce, KG and Ray were already past their prime in 08, but 4 years later they have unquestionably taken further steps backwards.  Rondo's role has changed as a result.   Beyond those 4 guys and Doc... I'm expected to blindly believe in these green jerseys as if it's the same team?  Give me a break.  This team isn't a contender.  It never was a contender.  If MAJOR additions aren't possible, massive change should happen so we can prepare for our future.  I'm not sure why some Celtic fans are so blindly optimistic that bums like Chris Wilcox and Keyon Dooling can capture the same magic of a COMPLETELY different squad.  You might as well be telling me we could trade our entire roster for the Bucks and stand a chance at winning the title, because they are wearing Celtic jerseys. 

[raynman]

Right now, the only reason I keep coming back to CelticsBlog is to check on the latest Celtics trade rumors...

[Merovech]

It's kind of annoying when people just assume I'm being a pessimist.  I love this team.

If you take this team right now and add Kendrick Perkins and Tony Allen (both who are thriving in their starting roles for winning teams) ... tell me this team wouldn't be different.  Even Krstik and Jeff Green would make a difference.

But that's not all... James Posey was in his prime for the 08 Celtics.  He played stellar defense and hit a 1.4 threes a game on 38% shooting.  He spread the floor for the team and was a massive contributor.  Add a prime James Posey on this team and tell me it wouldn't make a difference.  (I'm sure that's what they had in mind when they signed Pietrus, but it's not the same)

Eddie House was a one-dimensional player, but he was a huge role player for us.  Hit 1.5 threes a night... 40% from three... spread the floor, gave us HUGE energy every time he came in.  Huge contributor.  Tell me having prime Eddie House on this team wouldn't make a difference (I'm sure that's what they had in mind when they signed Dooling, but Dooling is a bum).

Leon Powe was a beast when he played for us in 08.... 57% shooting... 8 points, 4 rebounds in 14 minutes.  Key big man off the bench.  To be fair, I'll pretend Bass (48% shooting... 11 points, 6 rebounds in 29 minutes) is a wash and move on.

And then of course you had the crafty-yet-capable vets who were added late for the playoff push... Sam Cassell and PJ Brown.  I take 2008 versions of those two guys over Avery Bradley and Jermaine O'Neal 10 times out of 10.

Now of course there were a few useless bench warmers on those teams (Glen Davis, Gabe Pruitt, Pollard, Scal) like there are useless bench warmers on this team (Johnson, Moore, Sasha, Wilcox)... the entire lot of them are irrelevant.

Also can't underestimate the impact of a certain defensive guru who is currently the head coach of the top team in the league.

Point being... this team has VERY LITTLE in common with the Celtic team I saw win a title.  Pierce, KG and Ray were already past their prime in 08, but 4 years later they have unquestionably taken further steps backwards.  Rondo's role has changed as a result.   Beyond those 4 guys and Doc... I'm expected to blindly believe in these green jerseys as if it's the same team?  Give me a break.  This team isn't a contender.  It never was a contender.  If MAJOR additions aren't possible, massive change should happen so we can prepare for our future.  I'm not sure why some Celtic fans are so blindly optimistic that bums like Chris Wilcox and Keyon Dooling can capture the same magic of a COMPLETELY different squad.  You might as well be telling me we could trade our entire roster for the Bucks and stand a chance at winning the title, because they are wearing Celtic jerseys. 

I sort of agree with you, but I'd like to point out that Perkins isn't exactly thriving.  Also, I think that if the Celtics really come close to being eliminated, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo will switch into another gear (Ray's great games seem to come at the most random times).  None of them can play like superstars for more than a few games in a row, and they are a real longshot for the title (although the optimist in me says it is possible...), but I doubt they fail to make the playoffs and give them a fair chance at making it to the second round.

[LarBrd33]

It's kind of annoying when people just assume I'm being a pessimist.  I love this team.

If you take this team right now and add Kendrick Perkins and Tony Allen (both who are thriving in their starting roles for winning teams) ... tell me this team wouldn't be different.  Even Krstik and Jeff Green would make a difference.

But that's not all... James Posey was in his prime for the 08 Celtics.  He played stellar defense and hit a 1.4 threes a game on 38% shooting.  He spread the floor for the team and was a massive contributor.  Add a prime James Posey on this team and tell me it wouldn't make a difference.  (I'm sure that's what they had in mind when they signed Pietrus, but it's not the same)

Eddie House was a one-dimensional player, but he was a huge role player for us.  Hit 1.5 threes a night... 40% from three... spread the floor, gave us HUGE energy every time he came in.  Huge contributor.  Tell me having prime Eddie House on this team wouldn't make a difference (I'm sure that's what they had in mind when they signed Dooling, but Dooling is a bum).

Leon Powe was a beast when he played for us in 08.... 57% shooting... 8 points, 4 rebounds in 14 minutes.  Key big man off the bench.  To be fair, I'll pretend Bass (48% shooting... 11 points, 6 rebounds in 29 minutes) is a wash and move on.

And then of course you had the crafty-yet-capable vets who were added late for the playoff push... Sam Cassell and PJ Brown.  I take 2008 versions of those two guys over Avery Bradley and Jermaine O'Neal 10 times out of 10.

Now of course there were a few useless bench warmers on those teams (Glen Davis, Gabe Pruitt, Pollard, Scal) like there are useless bench warmers on this team (Johnson, Moore, Sasha, Wilcox)... the entire lot of them are irrelevant.

Also can't underestimate the impact of a certain defensive guru who is currently the head coach of the top team in the league.

Point being... this team has VERY LITTLE in common with the Celtic team I saw win a title.  Pierce, KG and Ray were already past their prime in 08, but 4 years later they have unquestionably taken further steps backwards.  Rondo's role has changed as a result.   Beyond those 4 guys and Doc... I'm expected to blindly believe in these green jerseys as if it's the same team?  Give me a break.  This team isn't a contender.  It never was a contender.  If MAJOR additions aren't possible, massive change should happen so we can prepare for our future.  I'm not sure why some Celtic fans are so blindly optimistic that bums like Chris Wilcox and Keyon Dooling can capture the same magic of a COMPLETELY different squad.  You might as well be telling me we could trade our entire roster for the Bucks and stand a chance at winning the title, because they are wearing Celtic jerseys. 

I sort of agree with you, but I'd like to point out that Perkins isn't exactly thriving.  Also, I think that if the Celtics really come close to being eliminated, Garnett, Pierce, and Rondo will switch into another gear (Ray's great games seem to come at the most random times).  None of them can play like superstars for more than a few games in a row, and they are a real longshot for the title (although the optimist in me says it is possible...), but I doubt they fail to make the playoffs and give them a fair chance at making it to the second round.

Yeah I mean Perk isn't doing much statistically... which always what I brought up in defense of Danny... but you gotta figure he's providing some toughness/defense inside and probably using his big body to box out and help others get rebounds.  OKC is the top team in the West right now and a legit contender... so he must be helping on some level.

[ozman]

It has to be said in every one of these threads. 

This team doesn't have a starting center.  They have no size.  The Perk trade couldn't have worked out any worse.  Not only is Jeff Green out for the season, but Krstik is playing overseas.  Shaq retired, our David West signing fell through and we're left with the corpse of Jermaine O'Neal starting.

If you're JUST NOW considering throwing in the white towel, you're some combination of crazed homer or powerfully naive.  I haven't bothered watching a full game since the first week of the season.  We do not have the talent to compete and we have yet to beat a single contender all season. 

excuses are some what valid, but this team still has the talent to be better then 15-15. its lack of effort and coasting, there's no way we should be this bad at rebounding

[LarBrd33]

It has to be said in every one of these threads. 

This team doesn't have a starting center.  They have no size.  The Perk trade couldn't have worked out any worse.  Not only is Jeff Green out for the season, but Krstik is playing overseas.  Shaq retired, our David West signing fell through and we're left with the corpse of Jermaine O'Neal starting.

If you're JUST NOW considering throwing in the white towel, you're some combination of crazed homer or powerfully naive.  I haven't bothered watching a full game since the first week of the season.  We do not have the talent to compete and we have yet to beat a single contender all season. 

excuses are some what valid, but this team still has the talent to be better then 15-15. its lack of effort and coasting, there's no way we should be this bad at rebounding

Why?  Jermaine Oneal has been washed up for years.  Wilcox is meh.  Bass has never been a great rebounder and KG hasn't averaged double digit rebounds since 2007.  What's so surprising about this?  As Bill Simmons said... this is a deeply flawed roster.

It's bizarre to me that people are so confused by this.  Last year our best rebounders (per 36 minutes) in order were: Perk, KG, Shaq, Krstik, Harangody, Murphy and THEN Jermaine.  Shockingly when you remove Perk, Shaq and Krstik... and give Jermaine starter minutes by default... the team's rebounding suffers.  Who woulda thunk!?

[Eddie20]

If you're JUST NOW considering throwing in the white towel, you're some combination of crazed homer or powerfully naive.  I haven't bothered watching a full game since the first week of the season.  We do not have the talent to compete and we have yet to beat a single contender all season.  

True fan.

[hwangjini_1]

first...to just unmix a few metaphors...white flags are for waving, towels are for throwing.  

next...

but i understand your points. this year's team is frustrating, but not surprising. sometimes i can see them as being able to beat anyone on a given night. other times i can see how anyone can beat this team on a given night.

the team is terrific when focused, working hard, and executing. but this magic combination only occurs occasionally....and in the playoffs "occasionally" ain't gonna cut it.

next, next...

as for trading everyone away now and writing off the season, that was my initial thought a month or so ago. however, now i wonder if the celtics would be better off simply riding the vets into the sunset and taking one last desperate chance that during the playoffs all fortune falls their way, the goddess of health is feeling very generous, and that wade and lebron run into each other during warm ups,thereby giving mutual injuries to each other that keep them out of games for a few months.

trades are tempting, but i am not convinced right now that they will really help the team's future. so far, i havent see any real indication that the celtics would receive a treasure trove of draft picks or young talent through trading the big three....and if the celtics are not trading for those, then why trade at all? salary cap will not be a barrier to acquiring free agents after this season, whether or not the big 3 are traded.

as far as i can see, only contending teams would really want aging stars who can push them closer to a championship. but those are exactly the teams whose draft choices are of little if any value to a rebuilding team.

perhaps a team will trade a young star for an aging star from the celtics...but, such a scenario seems rather remote. why would a rational GM do that? and if they are a championship contender, then the GM is probably rational.

i guess that as much as i wish the trade of the aging celtic vets could bring paul, howard, granger, rose, and a plethora of unrestricted draft picks in the 1-3 range for the next decade, i just dont see how it will happen.

sadly, the best option for this year may be to keep everyone and then hope for the best.

not sure if my post is more a case of throwing white flags to the ground or simply waving towels.

[mctyson]

its hard to be an optimist huh? the teams 15-15 and we're through with the easier part of the schedule... yep can't argue with that

During the 2010 season, the C's were 23-7 after 30 games.  That's 16 games over .500

52 games later, they were 50-32.  That is 18 games over .500.  To get to that record, over the last 52 games of 2010 (almost the length of this entire season), they won 27 games and LOST 25. 

They were a .500 team for basically for last 2 thirds of the season.

That was two years ago. That team went to the NBA finals.

Here is your reason for optimism:  the same people that are saying this team has no shot at winning a championship this year (read: Bill Simmons) are the same people who were disgusted with the Celtics and thought they'd lose in the first round in 2010.

I am not saying this year will play out like 2010.  I am as frustrated with the record and play as any Celtic fan.  I do think they need some tweak to make a difference.  They just might not make the playoffs, or get bounced in the first round.

But remember - all of these EXACT SAME THINGS were said just 2 years ago ("they are too old", "they have no desire", "let's rebuild around Rondo", "let's trade Rondo", "let's trade everybody").

Be very careful underestimating a team filled with all-stars, hall of famers, and yes: champions. 

Get in the dance.  Then I promise you no one will want to play this team in a 7-game series.