Author Topic: How would NBA top players fair given the Rondo treatment?  (Read 7718 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: How would NBA top players fair given the Rondo treatment?
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2012, 02:48:24 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123

  Not sure the point of the thread. Did you just notice that Rondo's not a great outside shooter?

  You could flip it around though. Take any point guard on the list and give them "the Rondo treatment" so they aren't guarded closely on the perimeter. Also, give them Rondo's outside shot and free throw shooting. How many of them are still all-star caliber players? How many of them can still have an impact on their offense similar to what they have now?

  Paul, Nash and Curry are almost exclusively jump shooters. Rose, Westbrook and Parker would have a harder time getting to the rim if their defenders backed off a little. Every player in that list would have a much harder time getting assists as they'd basically be passing against what they do now plus 1 "roaming defender". Could any of them still run an offense effectively?



TP - Thank you. This thread seems a little snarky to me. If you don't like Rondo, stand in line and stop creating new threads about how horrible he is. We are lucky to have such a unique player and if we trade him, it better be for somebody better than Gortat and Varejao.

  At least it's fairly interesting IMO. What would happen if CP3 or Nash could take as many wide open shots as they wanted is pretty obvious. How they would fare without good jump shot or ft% is another matter. Would Nash even be in the league?


Nash would probably be a career backup.

It is kind of interesting, but then, it's also kind of silly.  What would Kyle Korver do if he couldn't hit 3s?  He'd coach a high school basketball team.


  Somewhat silly, I agree. But look at it this way. Think about all of the things a point guard does *besides* outside shooting and foul shooting. Ballhandling, passing, vision, directing the offense, controlling the pace of the game, all aspects of defense, rebounding, whatever you like. You have Nash (with Rondo's outside and ft shooting) as a career backup. soap07 has Paul and Nash as solid starters, on a Raymond Felton level.

  Rondo's an all-star and arguably top 5 at his position. The fairly obvious conclusion is that Rondo's better than Nash or CP3 at that combination of point guard skills (not outside shooting or ft shooting). In fact, he's better at them by enough of a margin to raise his level of play from a Raymond Felton level (or worse) to among the best in the league at his position.

  I realize the point of this thread was to trash Rondo. But people need to realize that, while it's true that Rondo's a poor jumpshooter/ft shooter, it's also true that he has a very big positive impact on the Celts, and possibly consider what he does to make that impact and how well he does those things.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 02:56:11 PM by BballTim »

Re: How would NBA top players fair given the Rondo treatment?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2012, 03:40:48 PM »

Offline PosImpos

  • NCE
  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12383
  • Tommy Points: 903
  • Rondo = Good

  Not sure the point of the thread. Did you just notice that Rondo's not a great outside shooter?

  You could flip it around though. Take any point guard on the list and give them "the Rondo treatment" so they aren't guarded closely on the perimeter. Also, give them Rondo's outside shot and free throw shooting. How many of them are still all-star caliber players? How many of them can still have an impact on their offense similar to what they have now?

  Paul, Nash and Curry are almost exclusively jump shooters. Rose, Westbrook and Parker would have a harder time getting to the rim if their defenders backed off a little. Every player in that list would have a much harder time getting assists as they'd basically be passing against what they do now plus 1 "roaming defender". Could any of them still run an offense effectively?



TP - Thank you. This thread seems a little snarky to me. If you don't like Rondo, stand in line and stop creating new threads about how horrible he is. We are lucky to have such a unique player and if we trade him, it better be for somebody better than Gortat and Varejao.

  At least it's fairly interesting IMO. What would happen if CP3 or Nash could take as many wide open shots as they wanted is pretty obvious. How they would fare without good jump shot or ft% is another matter. Would Nash even be in the league?


Nash would probably be a career backup.

It is kind of interesting, but then, it's also kind of silly.  What would Kyle Korver do if he couldn't hit 3s?  He'd coach a high school basketball team.


  Somewhat silly, I agree. But look at it this way. Think about all of the things a point guard does *besides* outside shooting and foul shooting. Ballhandling, passing, vision, directing the offense, controlling the pace of the game, all aspects of defense, rebounding, whatever you like. You have Nash (with Rondo's outside and ft shooting) as a career backup. soap07 has Paul and Nash as solid starters, on a Raymond Felton level.

  Rondo's an all-star and arguably top 5 at his position. The fairly obvious conclusion is that Rondo's better than Nash or CP3 at that combination of point guard skills (not outside shooting or ft shooting). In fact, he's better at them by enough of a margin to raise his level of play from a Raymond Felton level (or worse) to among the best in the league at his position.

  I realize the point of this thread was to trash Rondo. But people need to realize that, while it's true that Rondo's a poor jumpshooter/ft shooter, it's also true that he has a very big positive impact on the Celts, and possibly consider what he does to make that impact and how well he does those things.


I'll agree with what I interpret as your main point here, which is that it's remarkable that Rondo is able to do so much despite his limitations. That is to say, the strengths that he has are so great that they are able to make up for his weaknesses, which are, I think even you would admit, fairly glaring (we just tend to disagree on how important they are on Rondo's overall impact).


Any way you look at it, I don't think there's any denying that Rondo is a remarkable player.
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

"I know you all wanna win, but you gotta do it TOGETHER!"
- Doc Rivers

Re: How would NBA top players fair given the Rondo treatment?
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2012, 03:53:34 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123

  Not sure the point of the thread. Did you just notice that Rondo's not a great outside shooter?

  You could flip it around though. Take any point guard on the list and give them "the Rondo treatment" so they aren't guarded closely on the perimeter. Also, give them Rondo's outside shot and free throw shooting. How many of them are still all-star caliber players? How many of them can still have an impact on their offense similar to what they have now?

  Paul, Nash and Curry are almost exclusively jump shooters. Rose, Westbrook and Parker would have a harder time getting to the rim if their defenders backed off a little. Every player in that list would have a much harder time getting assists as they'd basically be passing against what they do now plus 1 "roaming defender". Could any of them still run an offense effectively?



TP - Thank you. This thread seems a little snarky to me. If you don't like Rondo, stand in line and stop creating new threads about how horrible he is. We are lucky to have such a unique player and if we trade him, it better be for somebody better than Gortat and Varejao.

  At least it's fairly interesting IMO. What would happen if CP3 or Nash could take as many wide open shots as they wanted is pretty obvious. How they would fare without good jump shot or ft% is another matter. Would Nash even be in the league?


Nash would probably be a career backup.

It is kind of interesting, but then, it's also kind of silly.  What would Kyle Korver do if he couldn't hit 3s?  He'd coach a high school basketball team.


  Somewhat silly, I agree. But look at it this way. Think about all of the things a point guard does *besides* outside shooting and foul shooting. Ballhandling, passing, vision, directing the offense, controlling the pace of the game, all aspects of defense, rebounding, whatever you like. You have Nash (with Rondo's outside and ft shooting) as a career backup. soap07 has Paul and Nash as solid starters, on a Raymond Felton level.

  Rondo's an all-star and arguably top 5 at his position. The fairly obvious conclusion is that Rondo's better than Nash or CP3 at that combination of point guard skills (not outside shooting or ft shooting). In fact, he's better at them by enough of a margin to raise his level of play from a Raymond Felton level (or worse) to among the best in the league at his position.

  I realize the point of this thread was to trash Rondo. But people need to realize that, while it's true that Rondo's a poor jumpshooter/ft shooter, it's also true that he has a very big positive impact on the Celts, and possibly consider what he does to make that impact and how well he does those things.


I'll agree with what I interpret as your main point here, which is that it's remarkable that Rondo is able to do so much despite his limitations. That is to say, the strengths that he has are so great that they are able to make up for his weaknesses, which are, I think even you would admit, fairly glaring (we just tend to disagree on how important they are on Rondo's overall impact).


Any way you look at it, I don't think there's any denying that Rondo is a remarkable player.

  Finally, some common ground. I've never denied that Rondo's a bad ft shooter or a poor jump shooter. I've never denied that these weaknesses have a negative impact on the Celts offense. But he does enough things at a very high level that his net impact on our offense is very good, in fact on a level with some of the best offensive pgs in the league. Doesn't make him a great clutch scorer, but he's obviously not a liability on offense.

Re: How would NBA top players fair given the Rondo treatment?
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2012, 03:56:21 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330

Re: How would NBA top players fair given the Rondo treatment?
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2012, 04:05:15 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=rondora01&year_id=2012

Basketball reference makes these threads easier.

  That's pretty cool, I'll have to check that out when I get a chance. But I don't know that it makes this thread easier, nobody's really disputing that Rondo's a not a great outside shot.

Re: How would NBA top players fair given the Rondo treatment?
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2012, 04:05:25 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
http://bkref.com/tiny/yOFAa

Rondo has shot poorly when it comes to 4th/OT the past two years.

Re: How would NBA top players fair given the Rondo treatment?
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2012, 04:07:16 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=rondora01&year_id=2012

Basketball reference makes these threads easier.

  That's pretty cool, I'll have to check that out when I get a chance. But I don't know that it makes this thread easier, nobody's really disputing that Rondo's a not a great outside shot.

It allows us to look at his 4th quarter assists, overall shooting, or even close shooting in the fourth.

For example his 4th/OT issues aren't his layups/close shots. He still does decently on those.

Re: How would NBA top players fair given the Rondo treatment?
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2012, 04:11:51 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
Also he gets assists through out the entire game. He does it in close games, blow outs, and all quarters this year.

Re: How would NBA top players fair given the Rondo treatment?
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2012, 04:34:31 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=rondora01&year_id=2012

Basketball reference makes these threads easier.

  That's pretty cool, I'll have to check that out when I get a chance. But I don't know that it makes this thread easier, nobody's really disputing that Rondo's a not a great outside shot.

It allows us to look at his 4th quarter assists, overall shooting, or even close shooting in the fourth.

For example his 4th/OT issues aren't his layups/close shots. He still does decently on those.

  I'll have to check that out more when I get a chance.