2012 'Pick Two' Draft Board

[The Walker Wiggle]

If Andy and Bogut are both out for a while, then I'm not sure I understand why Edgar gave you guys a 2nd rounder. It seems like he gave up the better long-term player and a much higher pick, no?

Varejao is younger and less injury prone, and puts up equal production.  Plus, he should be back this year, at least hopefully.  

Yeah, that makes sense to me. Varejao is the safer bet. Bogut's body is just breaking down at this point. He should still be effective as a low post defender, space eater and third option but his best days are probably behind him.

EDIT - Please replace the above the me spitting fire instead. I initially read the trade as Bogut and a 2nd for Varejao and a 3rd. BECAUSE THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE.

[Bahku]

Thoughts on Wade/LeBron/ Favors?

love favors, really think he'll blossom in this league, but I'm not sure why you wouldn't go for more of a sure thing.

Looking at my options, there was no "sure thing" whose abilities I feel I couldn't get in he next two rounds.

I would've loved to see you take Antawn Jamison at that spot. 17, 6 and 2 and great floor spacing for James and Wade.

A lot of people are high on Favors, he's just not ready to start yet. You've made it a lot tougher on yourself in terms of winning this year, maybe next.

I disagree. Antwan is on the downslope and has never been a good defender and certainly isn't now. Also, Jamison has never been a favorite of mine. His insistence on hanging around the three point line is nauseating and he's just not that great a competitor, he absolutely shrinks from the spotlight when expectations are high.

Jamison: 16.8 PPG, 6.1 RPB, 1.7 APG, 1.1 SPG, 0.8 BPG, ER 15.15

Favors: 7.9 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 0.3 APG, 0.4 SPG, 0.9 BPG, ER 9.36

Favors has a tenth better in blocks, and other than that there's not much comparison ... Jamison shoots the tres at .354, (Favors not at all, so no outside threat), doesn't turn the ball over as much, and has veteran playoff experience. I love Derrick's game, but would take Jamison in a heartbeat over him ... but to each his own, I guess.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Thoughts on Wade/LeBron/ Favors?

love favors, really think he'll blossom in this league, but I'm not sure why you wouldn't go for more of a sure thing.

Looking at my options, there was no "sure thing" whose abilities I feel I couldn't get in he next two rounds.

I would've loved to see you take Antawn Jamison at that spot. 17, 6 and 2 and great floor spacing for James and Wade.

A lot of people are high on Favors, he's just not ready to start yet. You've made it a lot tougher on yourself in terms of winning this year, maybe next.

I disagree. Antwan is on the downslope and has never been a good defender and certainly isn't now. Also, Jamison has never been a favorite of mine. His insistence on hanging around the three point line is nauseating and he's just not that great a competitor, he absolutely shrinks from the spotlight when expectations are high.

Agreed -- Favors > Jamison -- both as an individual player and in terms of fit

Huh, you guys would have to sell me on this. What little I've seen of Favors and none of the numbers I'm looking at bear this out. Favors is an AWFUL defender. Not saying he can't or won't develop, he certainly has the tools. But he is certainly worse than an admittedly mediocre Jamison.

Also, KC, I'd point out that Antawn is a pretty impressive rebounder for a player who tends to break early and float around the three point line.

[theswitch]

Here's what Hollinger has to say about Favors at the start of the year:

+ Mobile big man who likely will become elite defender in P.J. Brown mold.

It remains to be seen whether Favors' best long-term position is center or power forward, but he has the size and length to be a very good defender at either position and was already beginning to display those skills by the end of his rookie season -- particularly in his on-ball post defense.

Favors also ranked ninth among power forwards in blocks per minute and had a very good rebound rate as well, strong indicators going forward given that he was only 19 years old. However, he has to stop fouling so much. Favors was the third most frequent offender among power forwards at one every 6.2 minutes, making it virtually impossible to give him extended minutes; one hopes that with experience he can slash that number to something more reasonable.

I haven't watched a lot of Favors but judging by what I've read, I'd say Favors is a huge improvement over Jamison defensively - especially on the interior with James and Wade on the wings already.

[KCattheStripe]

Here's what Hollinger has to say about Favors at the start of the year:

+ Mobile big man who likely will become elite defender in P.J. Brown mold.

It remains to be seen whether Favors' best long-term position is center or power forward, but he has the size and length to be a very good defender at either position and was already beginning to display those skills by the end of his rookie season -- particularly in his on-ball post defense.

Favors also ranked ninth among power forwards in blocks per minute and had a very good rebound rate as well, strong indicators going forward given that he was only 19 years old. However, he has to stop fouling so much. Favors was the third most frequent offender among power forwards at one every 6.2 minutes, making it virtually impossible to give him extended minutes; one hopes that with experience he can slash that number to something more reasonable.

I haven't watched a lot of Favors but judging by what I've read, I'd say Favors is a huge improvement over Jamison defensively - especially on the interior with James and Wade on the wings already.

Boom. Knowledged. 

[nickagneta]

I haven't seen Favors play this year but did several times last year, he looked utterly lost out there. IMHO, he's not close to being ready to contribute starting minutes to a contending team.

I think some tend to seriously overvalue the young talent in these drafts and think them capable of things they just can't do yet on an NBA basketball court against NBA veterans. Then they talk up a storm and suddenly people believe these players capable of doing things they eventually never end up doing.

*Cough Cough* IP last 2 CB Drafts *Cough Cough*

Sorry little frog in the throat.  

[nickagneta]

Here's what Hollinger has to say about Favors at the start of the year:

+ Mobile big man who likely will become elite defender in P.J. Brown mold.

It remains to be seen whether Favors' best long-term position is center or power forward, but he has the size and length to be a very good defender at either position and was already beginning to display those skills by the end of his rookie season -- particularly in his on-ball post defense.

Favors also ranked ninth among power forwards in blocks per minute and had a very good rebound rate as well, strong indicators going forward given that he was only 19 years old. However, he has to stop fouling so much. Favors was the third most frequent offender among power forwards at one every 6.2 minutes, making it virtually impossible to give him extended minutes; one hopes that with experience he can slash that number to something more reasonable.

I haven't watched a lot of Favors but judging by what I've read, I'd say Favors is a huge improvement over Jamison defensively - especially on the interior with James and Wade on the wings already.

Boom. Knowledged. 

[The Walker Wiggle]

Here's what Hollinger has to say about Favors at the start of the year...

And here's what JAZZ FANS are saying right now.

I'm sick of him barely trying on defense. He should be dominating on D and yet he never tries to cut off ballhandlers driving to the basket and almost never tries to change their shots. His offense isn't good, but his defensive intensity is far more important with his development. Agree or disagree?

He's learning from Al Jefferson, what do you expect?

Favors has shown some good moves on offense occasionally, but I agree that it's his defense that can really make him an elite player. He seems too focused on the offensive end right now. He needs to focus on defending and rebounding like last season.

Vs. Jamison, he posts the worse Defense Rating and lower DWS, and 1.02 PPP allowed vs 1.01 (Which ranks both among the worst in the league.) His man also scores 47.3% of the time. Jamison's 46.6%.

Again, not that he won't develop into a very disruptive defender. But right now? He's too unfocused.

[KCattheStripe]

Here's what Hollinger has to say about Favors at the start of the year:

+ Mobile big man who likely will become elite defender in P.J. Brown mold.

It remains to be seen whether Favors' best long-term position is center or power forward, but he has the size and length to be a very good defender at either position and was already beginning to display those skills by the end of his rookie season -- particularly in his on-ball post defense.

Favors also ranked ninth among power forwards in blocks per minute and had a very good rebound rate as well, strong indicators going forward given that he was only 19 years old. However, he has to stop fouling so much. Favors was the third most frequent offender among power forwards at one every 6.2 minutes, making it virtually impossible to give him extended minutes; one hopes that with experience he can slash that number to something more reasonable.

I haven't watched a lot of Favors but judging by what I've read, I'd say Favors is a huge improvement over Jamison defensively - especially on the interior with James and Wade on the wings already.

Boom. Knowledged. 

Up to 20 minutes on a team where he's playing behind Big Al and Millsap. And he's dropped from 3 fouls per 20 minutes to 2 while maintaining the same defensive production. I'd say he's ready.

[theswitch]

KCat - I noticed you have him listed as your PF in your sig. Are you planning on playing him there or at center? I'm not sure how crazy I am about two guys clogging up the paint for James and Wade on offense. I'd like your offense a little more if you had a big who could at least hang out 15-feet out and hit an open shot.

[Who]

Derrick Favors

I'd rate Favors as an average defender (PF) with high end potential and an above average rebounder (PF) again with high end potential. Offensively, he is under-developed and mostly a garbage man. He lacks the shooting range to log big minutes at PF unless paired with a jump-shooting center.

More effective as an undersized five where he can use his quickness to create easy scoring opportunities in cuts, transition opportunities and the occasional face up drive (infrequently used due to lack of confidence). Nice touch around the rim. Still learning how to use his body around the rim. He would be showing a lot more in extended minutes as an undersized five if not for the presence of Al Jefferson in Utah.

I rate Favors as a legit rotation player but below average (for a rotation player) at both big man positions. He would be one of the weaker starters in the league at either position or a solid backup at either spot.

I like Favors as a starter (as an undersized five) in Miami because I think he fits their team well. Facilitates their running game, their quick-footed help defense and can concentrate on being a garbage man while LeBron and Wade do the heavy lifting offensively. However, I do not like him as a PF because he'll clog their driving lanes unless you get a very good jump-shooting five.

Antawn Jamison -- No rubber left on those tires.

His defense is the worst in the league at his position. His declining quickness and explosiveness has hurt him both as a rebounder and as an offensive player. He has gone from an average board worker to one of the weaker rebounders in the league at his position. Certainly bottom 20% maybe bottom 10% (rebounding wise). A large negative in terms of defense and rebounding.

Offensively, his declining athletic attributes have resulted in a lesser ability to create mismatches and a declining ability to create separation from his defender has resulted in lower shooting numbers and made him an inefficient and largely ineffective scorer. Never was much of a passer. Jamison's negative contributions as a defender/rebounder far outweigh his minimal contributions offensively.

I rate Jamison as a low level backup PF to a high level third string PF.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I think some tend to seriously overvalue the young talent in these drafts and think them capable of things they just can't do yet on an NBA basketball court against NBA veterans. Then they talk up a storm and suddenly people believe these players capable of doing things they eventually never end up doing.

But sometimes those guys are right about Ricky Rubio and Nick ranks them at the bottom of the division anyway.

[KCattheStripe]

Here's what Hollinger has to say about Favors at the start of the year...

And here's what JAZZ FANS are saying right now.

I'm sick of him barely trying on defense. He should be dominating on D and yet he never tries to cut off ballhandlers driving to the basket and almost never tries to change their shots. His offense isn't good, but his defensive intensity is far more important with his development. Agree or disagree?

He's learning from Al Jefferson, what do you expect?

Favors has shown some good moves on offense occasionally, but I agree that it's his defense that can really make him an elite player. He seems too focused on the offensive end right now. He needs to focus on defending and rebounding like last season.

Vs. Jamison, he posts the worse Defense Rating and lower DWS, and 1.02 PPP allowed vs 1.01 (Which puts ranks both among the worst in the league.) His man also scores 47.3% of the time. Jamison's 46.6%.

Again, not that he won't develop into a very disruptive defender. But right now? He's too unfocused.

If there's one thing we know because  from our experiences on Celticsblog, it's that selectively sampling from a collection of fan posts always leads to astute basketball analysis.

[The Walker Wiggle]

If there's one thing we know because  from our experiences on Celticsblog, it's that selectively sampling from a collection of fan posts always leads to astute basketball analysis.

Yeah Synergy Sports and Basket-Ball Reference were probably just having a bad day.

[KCattheStripe]

If there's one thing we know because  from our experiences on Celticsblog, it's that selectively sampling from a collection of fan posts always leads to astute basketball analysis.

Yeah Synergy Sports and Basket-Ball Reference were probably just having a bad day.

You posted stats that showed a very slim difference and then some passionate fan posts that made the difference sound greater than it is. If I'm choosing between Jamison or Favors, I'll skip Jamison seeing as he's regressed to the level of a second year player and has always wilted when the bright lights were on him. I'd rather see what the young guys got than go with the old guy who i know has got nothin.