when your window closes u trade 35 yr olds not 25 yr olds

[Chief]

It's all about value.

We don't have a 25 year old Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, or Ray Allen. We have a 25 year old Rajon Rondo, a player who is very inconsistent, has attitude problems, can't shoot free throws, and opposing teams sag so far off him on defense that it's making it harder for his teammates to score.

Oh, and because of his high assist totals other teams might actually be willing to give up something valuable for him.

I think a young up-incoming team would trade for Pierce to try to get them over the hump. I'd guess Philly, Indiana, and Minny would do it in a second.

[Celtkicks.com]

I feel Rondo gets a bad rap. I'm sure he is difficult at times, but he plays hard and he plays hurt.  How many stars in the leauge are diving for the ball, playing with a hyper extended elbow.  You can not under estimate heart.  He's not a big guy and he gets banged up on plays. I bet he is a bit hurt at the moment.

[mctyson]

Calderon, Collison, Conley, Curry, Evans, Harris, Holiday, Irving, Jack, Jennings, Lawson, Lin, Lowry, Miller, Nash, Parker, Paul, Ridnour, Rubio, Rose, Teague, Wall, Westbrook, Williams. That's 24 pg's and I'm not even counting guys who have struggled because of age/injury like Kidd, Billups, and Hinrich.  

Rondo is a much better basketball player than pretty much everyone on this list, save Paul, Rose, maybe Rubio, maybe Westbrook, maybe maybe John Wall.

People are so obsessed with Rondo's jumpshot.  How many of those PGs you listed are legitimate triple-double threats every night? How many of them are better defenders than Rondo?  

[mctyson]

It's all about value.

That's easy to say. I would only consider value for Rondo as:

a) another multiple-time All-Star at any position, younger than 28

b) A PG that is clearly better than him, or clearly could be (Paul, Rubio)

c) At least two young (25 or less), starter-quality NBA talents, one a PG, plus first round draft pick(s)

I don't care that the league is PG heavy right now.  Rondo is an NBA championship winning, All-Star PG who is maybe the only legitimate triple double threat at PG in the entire league.  Value for that kind of player has to be something very few teams, if any, could possibly offer.

[Chief]

I could start a similar thread, but why? I don't know Ainge's big picture and I admit that. But 1 more round with the Old Three seems a bit stupid. I've watched Miami, we got no chance if they are healthy. I mean 4-0 sweep. You keep Rondo and make smart trades, if you can, for the Big Three. You get younger, more athletic, and you build a team that matches up better against Miami.

[CelticG1]

I could start a similar thread, but why? I don't know Ainge's big picture and I admit that. But 1 more round with the Old Three seems a bit stupid. I've watched Miami, we got no chance if they are healthy. I mean 4-0 sweep. You keep Rondo and make smart trades, if you can, for the Big Three. You get younger, more athletic, and you build a team that matches up better against Miami.

Sounds good but you are offering no scenarios. What are you thinking? Who should we get? I don't think you are getting anything worth while for the big 3.

I think we have a better chance at winning a title this year by trading rondo for gasol or something along those lines than winning a title building around Rondo for the next 5 years.

When the playoffs start it is less about athleticism and more about execution and making shots. The games slow down a lot more.

[RajonRondo9Dime]

allstar PG who average 14/10/5 dont grow on trees...hes not a perfect player by all means..

I've been watching an undraftedm Ivy league player light it up for 20+ the past week.  Rondo is the only 14/10/5 guard who struggles with 17 foot jumpers and foul shots.  Point guards are all over the place.  Look at the list of useful pg's there are.

Calderon, Collison, Conley, Curry, Evans, Harris, Holiday, Irving, Jack, Jennings, Lawson, Lin, Lowry, Miller, Nash, Parker, Paul, Ridnour, Rubio, Rose, Teague, Wall, Westbrook, Williams. That's 24 pg's and I'm not even counting guys who have struggled because of age/injury like Kidd, Billups, and Hinrich. 

Is Rondo above some of these players, yes!  Is he below/similar talent level to a lot of this list? Absolutely..  It's not that Rondo isn't talented. Its that he's inconsistent and has proved that maybe he's not the best fit for the team anymore.

I've said it years ago, Rondo is not a franchise player.  He's a solid player when he's assertive, but he has flaws that stand out.  It is what it is, but Rondo is far from untouchable.  He's not even the most valuable member of the team either.  If a trade can improve the team it must be done. 

Has Rondo really struggled with the mid range jumper this year..? Seems to me it's pretty consistent. I guess some people just expect it to go in every single time.

Also, Rondo isn't being paid like a franchise player, so what's your argument there? He's a [dang] good PG that we already know, with the right pieces with him, can win a championship, and carry a team to the finals, like he did in 2010, and average a triple double in the playoffs, like he did in 2009.

Why get rid of that...? I don't understand what a 32 year old Gasol does for this current team, or the future. And "If a trade can improve the team, it must be done."

What trade is that? There is NO trade that includes Rondo, that would help the team this season... You're asking the Big 3 to carry the load, and they clearly can't. And Rondo is an affordable, young PG. I have a hard time imagining a trade that involves him and makes the future brighter.

[Chief]

I could start a similar thread, but why? I don't know Ainge's big picture and I admit that. But 1 more round with the Old Three seems a bit stupid. I've watched Miami, we got no chance if they are healthy. I mean 4-0 sweep. You keep Rondo and make smart trades, if you can, for the Big Three. You get younger, more athletic, and you build a team that matches up better against Miami.

Sounds good but you are offering no scenarios. What are you thinking? Who should we get? I don't think you are getting anything worth while for the big 3.

I think we have a better chance at winning a title this year by trading rondo for gasol or something along those lines than winning a title building around Rondo for the next 5 years.

When the playoffs start it is less about athleticism and more about execution and making shots. The games slow down a lot more.

Scenarios? I'm glad you asked.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=53620.msg1148647#msg1148647

My second scenario could be tweaked. I'd love to get Ariza and pair him with Rondo. The kid is clutch and has a championship pedigree. Also, he has been known as a great defender of Lebron.

[Roy H.]

I could start a similar thread, but why? I don't know Ainge's big picture and I admit that. But 1 more round with the Old Three seems a bit stupid. I've watched Miami, we got no chance if they are healthy. I mean 4-0 sweep. You keep Rondo and make smart trades, if you can, for the Big Three. You get younger, more athletic, and you build a team that matches up better against Miami.

Sounds good but you are offering no scenarios. What are you thinking? Who should we get? I don't think you are getting anything worth while for the big 3.

I think we have a better chance at winning a title this year by trading rondo for gasol or something along those lines than winning a title building around Rondo for the next 5 years.

When the playoffs start it is less about athleticism and more about execution and making shots. The games slow down a lot more.

Scenarios? I'm glad you asked.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=53620.msg1148647#msg1148647

My second scenario could be tweaked. I'd love to get Ariza and pair him with Rondo. The kid is clutch and has a championship pedigree. Also, he has been known as a great defender of Lebron.

I wouldn't want to spend $7+ million on Ariza next year and the year after.  Mediocre guys like that are what kill a teams cap; he'd prevent us from adding true impact players.

I think we need to pursue star players first, and fill in the rest of the roster with role players.  If you start with the role players, you're screwed.

[CelticG1]

I could start a similar thread, but why? I don't know Ainge's big picture and I admit that. But 1 more round with the Old Three seems a bit stupid. I've watched Miami, we got no chance if they are healthy. I mean 4-0 sweep. You keep Rondo and make smart trades, if you can, for the Big Three. You get younger, more athletic, and you build a team that matches up better against Miami.

Sounds good but you are offering no scenarios. What are you thinking? Who should we get? I don't think you are getting anything worth while for the big 3.

I think we have a better chance at winning a title this year by trading rondo for gasol or something along those lines than winning a title building around Rondo for the next 5 years.

When the playoffs start it is less about athleticism and more about execution and making shots. The games slow down a lot more.

Scenarios? I'm glad you asked.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=53620.msg1148647#msg1148647

My second scenario could be tweaked. I'd love to get Ariza and pair him with Rondo. The kid is clutch and has a championship pedigree. Also, he has been known as a great defender of Lebron.

Really Ariza? That is seriously depressing. I understand wanting to pair Rondo with an athletic all-star like an Igloudala but jeez Ariza I just don't see the point. And what's so great about a guy who is clutch with "championship pedigree" when we are going to be winning 30 games a season.

I'll take Ariza as a 6th 7th 8th man type but wow no not as a key player. He's basically Pietrus with more athelticism, except pietrus costs close to nothing.
 

[Geo123]

I hate the idea of trading anybody, but youre dead on.

Garnett is in a much deeper slump than Rondo is. He's just a jump shooter. The one thing he does good the most, rebounding, is not there anymore. He clearly lost.

Rondo is in a slump. WIll he get back to form, we don't know. Is his skills declining, definitely not.

Yes I guess since Garnett is averaging 10 rebounds per game over the last 10 games and 9.3 RPG for the month of February he's just can't rebound anymore...

[Chief]

I could start a similar thread, but why? I don't know Ainge's big picture and I admit that. But 1 more round with the Old Three seems a bit stupid. I've watched Miami, we got no chance if they are healthy. I mean 4-0 sweep. You keep Rondo and make smart trades, if you can, for the Big Three. You get younger, more athletic, and you build a team that matches up better against Miami.

Sounds good but you are offering no scenarios. What are you thinking? Who should we get? I don't think you are getting anything worth while for the big 3.

I think we have a better chance at winning a title this year by trading rondo for gasol or something along those lines than winning a title building around Rondo for the next 5 years.

When the playoffs start it is less about athleticism and more about execution and making shots. The games slow down a lot more.

Scenarios? I'm glad you asked.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=53620.msg1148647#msg1148647

My second scenario could be tweaked. I'd love to get Ariza and pair him with Rondo. The kid is clutch and has a championship pedigree. Also, he has been known as a great defender of Lebron.

I wouldn't want to spend $7+ million on Ariza next year and the year after.  Mediocre guys like that are what kill a teams cap; he'd prevent us from adding true impact players.

I think we need to pursue star players first, and fill in the rest of the roster with role players.  If you start with the role players, you're screwed.

At some point the Celtics have to take on a few contracts. This team can't always be one year away from signing two max players. Ariza is a good player, and IMO an upgrade over Allen. There is a chance Ray signs a very similar deal to Ariza's this summer with the Celtics. I'd rather have young and athletic.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/04/ray-allen-says-he-wants-multi-year-extension-with-celtics/

[CelticG1]

I could start a similar thread, but why? I don't know Ainge's big picture and I admit that. But 1 more round with the Old Three seems a bit stupid. I've watched Miami, we got no chance if they are healthy. I mean 4-0 sweep. You keep Rondo and make smart trades, if you can, for the Big Three. You get younger, more athletic, and you build a team that matches up better against Miami.

Sounds good but you are offering no scenarios. What are you thinking? Who should we get? I don't think you are getting anything worth while for the big 3.

I think we have a better chance at winning a title this year by trading rondo for gasol or something along those lines than winning a title building around Rondo for the next 5 years.

When the playoffs start it is less about athleticism and more about execution and making shots. The games slow down a lot more.

Scenarios? I'm glad you asked.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=53620.msg1148647#msg1148647

My second scenario could be tweaked. I'd love to get Ariza and pair him with Rondo. The kid is clutch and has a championship pedigree. Also, he has been known as a great defender of Lebron.

I like the first trade, although I don't see it happening.

The second and third trades would make me very very depressed

[CelticG1]

I could start a similar thread, but why? I don't know Ainge's big picture and I admit that. But 1 more round with the Old Three seems a bit stupid. I've watched Miami, we got no chance if they are healthy. I mean 4-0 sweep. You keep Rondo and make smart trades, if you can, for the Big Three. You get younger, more athletic, and you build a team that matches up better against Miami.

Sounds good but you are offering no scenarios. What are you thinking? Who should we get? I don't think you are getting anything worth while for the big 3.

I think we have a better chance at winning a title this year by trading rondo for gasol or something along those lines than winning a title building around Rondo for the next 5 years.

When the playoffs start it is less about athleticism and more about execution and making shots. The games slow down a lot more.

Scenarios? I'm glad you asked.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=53620.msg1148647#msg1148647

My second scenario could be tweaked. I'd love to get Ariza and pair him with Rondo. The kid is clutch and has a championship pedigree. Also, he has been known as a great defender of Lebron.

I wouldn't want to spend $7+ million on Ariza next year and the year after.  Mediocre guys like that are what kill a teams cap; he'd prevent us from adding true impact players.

I think we need to pursue star players first, and fill in the rest of the roster with role players.  If you start with the role players, you're screwed.

At some point the Celtics have to take on a few contracts. This team can't always be one year away from signing two max players. Ariza is a good player, and IMO an upgrade over Allen. There is a chance Ray signs a very similar deal to Ariza's this summer with the Celtics. I'd rather have young and athletic.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/04/ray-allen-says-he-wants-multi-year-extension-with-celtics/

I agree we may not be able to do one year deals like people think will be easy but i'd rather just wait it out till the summer and see what we are working with than jumping on Ariza right now. I don't think a guy like him would be too hard to find and would rather invest in some bigs than a swingman which is pretty much the most common position in the NBA

[SHAQATTACK]

Makes the trades on what is best for the direction the team is going.  That direction is up to DA and the owners.  

I personally don't want to see any stop gap mediocre players signed that don't contribute to a major overhaul for the future.  Thats just putting band aids on the situation to win a few extra games, big deal.  as DA said just doing something for the sake of a trade is bogus.

I'm for DA, saving every asset he has  , playing out the big three , and reloading over the next 5 year period.

If he can talk a FA with franchise skill to sign , thays  great , if not get all the draft picks we can and forget the playoffs.    

Let her sink.  Sometimes you gotta get bad to get good.