Rondo has to go, sorry...

[CelticsFanNC]

lol if we'd won the game this wouldn't even be a topic.

Did you forget his 14 points and 7 assists?
That's 28 of our points right there.
How many players can go basket to basket and score on a one man transition play like he can?
So easy to point out his faults.
What about KG's terrible game?
Pierce's below average game?
Rondo gets 14/7 and he's the reason we lost?
SO what about 2008 or in the finals in 2010?

Such over repeated targeting of one player.
We wouldn't have MADE the finals in 2008 or 2010 without Rondo.
Do you honestly think this team has a chance this year without him?
If the Celtics are so worried about Rondo being left open, sub him out for the last 5 minutes and put another solid unit in.
But don't blame the entire loss oIn Rondo, he's such a scapegoat for our terrible furth quarter play and I'm sick of it.

I agree, the very reason why I didn't look at the forum last night, I just knew Rondo was going to be thrown under the bus. Pierce had a sub par game, and made a bone headed play at the end of regulation, and missed Ray. He could have called for a time out, no he was just standing there. Rondo was the only trying to actually call for it. It amazes me that last game Rondo has 14 assits no turn overs and we get the win, I don't see one thread about him having to go. Tonight he has 14/7 we lose and its his fault? Never mind the fact that K.G had an off game, Pierce wasn't his self. It's all on Rajon. One word # ridiculous!

 Same here.  Avoided this forum last night for the same reason.

  Nobody talks about how two of our HOFers were terrible last night.  KG was just dreadful the entire game, cant get a rebound when it matters and cannot hit a wide open shot(created in most cases by.....Rondo).  With the exception of a short stretch in the 4th quarter Pierce was dreadful the entire game.  He made a bone headed play at the end of regulation missing an open Ray Allen and then passing it to Pietrus in a bad spot with no time left.  He forced a shot at the end of OT with a wide open Bass in one of his sweet spots in the corner.  JO was his usual useless self.

  It's all on Rondo all the time around here.  Ridiculous is right!  I'm not saying he is perfect but he's not the reason we lost that game.  That lays at the feet of KG, JO and Pierce IMO.

[Moranis]

Jackie Macmullen told a story on Around the Horn yesterday.  Four of five years ago she went to interview Doc Rivers and Rondo and Austin Rivers were shooting baskets on the opposite end of the floor.  Rondo made 600 of 1000, Austin made 800 of 1000.  She tells Doc, hey it appears your 8th grade son is a better shooter than your starting PG.  She didn't give Doc's response.  That was a long time ago and Rondo still can't shoot, which means he never will.  He knows he can't shoot so he doesn't shoot the ball even when he should in the flow of the offense.  He also holds onto the ball longer than he should.  The Celtics offense is at its best when the ball is moving around the perimeter looking for the open man, Rondo doesn't facilitate that at all.  

[BballTim]

The OP is just repeating what he heard on the TNT broadcast anyway, when they talked about Kobe guarding Rondo+roaming to help.
Again, rehashed, over exaggerated, old.

I'll also add that the same TNT crew pointed out that pretty much all of the Celtics starting five points in the paint come from Rondo's penetration.

Which one is it going to be?
Do you think we'd be in with a chance to even beat these top teams with 5 minutes to go without Rondo holding down the fort for the first 43 minutes of each game?

So you are saying that the fact that no one on the Lakers ha to guard Rondo the entir game is meaningless and had no impact on the Celtics? I simply can't remember another point guard who is supposedly in the top tier who the opposing team can ignore the whole game and not get burned. H is. Unique athlete, but i am not sure how much Better he is going to get - and he needs to get better.

  Maybe he's saying that the Lakers do guard Rondo, although Kobe gives him a bit of distance. At least in the sense that other players are generally guarded. It's true that Kobe plays some center field when Rondo's off the ball. It's equally true Rondo does the same thing on the other end of the court when opposing point guards don't have the ball.

[traderondo]

14 points and 7 assists?  That's not 28 points, its still 14.  Any starting point guard and go out and 7 assists on a given night.  Not special at all.  And 14 points?  Also not that impressive, especially considering they don't guard him.  

Going to the basket and scoring on a one man transition play is exciting (and counts as 2 points which helps), but it doesn't win you basketball games.  Same thing with his acrobatic layups in the paint around bigger players.  They are individual pays within a game.  2 points is 2 points is 2 points.  It doesn't matter what they look like.

[Roy H.]

He also holds onto the ball longer than he should.  The Celtics offense is at its best when the ball is moving around the perimeter looking for the open man, Rondo doesn't facilitate that at all.  

Yeah, that's starting to bug me even more than his lack of shooting ability.  Too often, our offense is "pound pound pound" the ball on the perimeter for 10 seconds before trying to initiate something at the last second.  It doesn't work.

We either need to swing the ball around quickly, or penetrate.  Unfortunately, we don't do either, and the pick-and-roll is non-existent, as well.  I don't blame that all on Rondo -- Doc needs to make adjustments -- but his weaknesses make the team much easier to defend.

[BballTim]

I've said it once and I'll say it again...Delonte West is a better player than Rajon Rondo and as long as Rondo is on the team we will not win a series against the Heat.  Last year we didn't lose because Rondo was injured, we lost because Rondo was playing.  Miami, and other teams, are just to good to be playing 5-on-4.  When he got taken out of the game, DWest got more minutes and played much more effective.  Less turnovers, more efficient shooting, making Miami play 5-on-five.

Any argument for Rondo saying we were able to win a championship with him needs to be dismissed.  At the time he was playing with three HOF players IN THEIR PRIME.  One will go down as the best 3point shooter ever, another as arguably the best 4 in the game, and another's name is Paul Pierce.

Last thoughts...Trade Rondo for...anyone

  Last year, against the Heat, after Rondo hurt his arm, the team *still* played much better with Rondo than with West. I think you could literally tie one of Rondo's hands behind his back and he might be the better of the two.

[Celtics18]

The OP is just repeating what he heard on the TNT broadcast anyway, when they talked about Kobe guarding Rondo+roaming to help.
Again, rehashed, over exaggerated, old.

I'll also add that the same TNT crew pointed out that pretty much all of the Celtics starting five points in the paint come from Rondo's penetration.

Which one is it going to be?
Do you think we'd be in with a chance to even beat these top teams with 5 minutes to go without Rondo holding down the fort for the first 43 minutes of each game?

So you are saying that the fact that no one on the Lakers ha to guard Rondo the entir game is meaningless and had no impact on the Celtics? I simply can't remember another point guard who is supposedly in the top tier who the opposing team can ignore the whole game and not get burned. H is. Unique athlete, but i am not sure how much Better he is going to get - and he needs to get better.

Not meaningless, just not true.  Clearly you can see that "no one on the Lakers has to guard Rondo the entire game" is such a blatant exaggeration that it actually does your position more harm than good.

I understand being upset after a tough loss, but it's no reason to spout complete untruths as facts.

[BballTim]

He also holds onto the ball longer than he should.  The Celtics offense is at its best when the ball is moving around the perimeter looking for the open man, Rondo doesn't facilitate that at all.  

Yeah, that's starting to bug me even more than his lack of shooting ability.  Too often, our offense is "pound pound pound" the ball on the perimeter for 10 seconds before trying to initiate something at the last second.  It doesn't work.

We either need to swing the ball around quickly, or penetrate.  Unfortunately, we don't do either, and the pick-and-roll is non-existent, as well.  I don't blame that all on Rondo -- Doc needs to make adjustments -- but his weaknesses make the team much easier to defend.

  Those 10 seconds are usually used up trying to free Ray for screens. I think it's also true that the Celts want to play at a slowish pace, I don't think that they want to see the older guys running up and down the court that many more times a game.

[CelticsFanNC]

  Rondo's not a franchise PG.  We know this.  So what, he is still a very good basketball player.  The only true franchise PG I can think of in my lifetime that ever led a team to a title was Magic Johnson and even he had a ton of help.

  Rondo is a nice building block.  He is the only guy on this roster right now with any chance of being an All-Star level player in two years time.  I'm not against trading him for the right price but trading him for a player who isn't as good or better then he is would be counter productive especially since much of the rest of our roster and all of our other key players with the exception of Rondo are ancient by NBA standards.

[chambers]

Jackie Macmullen told a story on Around the Horn yesterday.  Four of five years ago she went to interview Doc Rivers and Rondo and Austin Rivers were shooting baskets on the opposite end of the floor.  Rondo made 600 of 1000, Austin made 800 of 1000.  She tells Doc, hey it appears your 8th grade son is a better shooter than your starting PG.  She didn't give Doc's response.  That was a long time ago and Rondo still can't shoot, which means he never will.  He knows he can't shoot so he doesn't shoot the ball even when he should in the flow of the offense.  He also holds onto the ball longer than he should.  The Celtics offense is at its best when the ball is moving around the perimeter looking for the open man, Rondo doesn't facilitate that at all. 

This is the biggest crock and you know it.
Can someone PLEASE answer my question:

How do we win the title in 2008 and then make the finals in 2010 if Rondo doesn't move the ball?
This is such garbage. Stop concentrating on Rondo's weaknesses and look at the weaknesses of our other key players.
Ray can barely get to the rim, he played well but took how many of Pierces shots away from him tonight? KG has one post move left- the spin and fade lob jump shot. That or he gets an easy 2 points from an insane lob from Rondo which 5-10 people earth could make in the same situation, if that.
Pierce struggles with physical defense, but he's been consistent- he's allowed to have a poor game every now and then.
Ray was the only other one of our key four players who played average/above average and in doing so he took multiple looks away from Pierce, which mean Pierce never got his flow going.
There are two players on this team who are a consistent double threat, meaning they can penetrate, drawing defenses in, and finding open jump shooters. They are Rondo and Pierce.

Rondo doesn't move the ball.
Gimme a break.
And my name is Al Jefferson.

I'm waiting for someone to answer my question re 2008+2010 and how Rondo has hindered this team.

[Roy H.]

He also holds onto the ball longer than he should.  The Celtics offense is at its best when the ball is moving around the perimeter looking for the open man, Rondo doesn't facilitate that at all.  

Yeah, that's starting to bug me even more than his lack of shooting ability.  Too often, our offense is "pound pound pound" the ball on the perimeter for 10 seconds before trying to initiate something at the last second.  It doesn't work.

We either need to swing the ball around quickly, or penetrate.  Unfortunately, we don't do either, and the pick-and-roll is non-existent, as well.  I don't blame that all on Rondo -- Doc needs to make adjustments -- but his weaknesses make the team much easier to defend.

  Those 10 seconds are usually used up trying to free Ray for screens. I think it's also true that the Celts want to play at a slowish pace, I don't think that they want to see the older guys running up and down the court that many more times a game.

Whatever the reason, it's not working.  The Celts are 21st in offensive efficiency, and most of the teams below us are the league's bottom-feeders. We're only better than the Knicks, Cavaliers, Grizzlies, Pistons, Kings, Hornets, Raptors, Wizards, and Bobcats.  That's not a group you want to belong to.

[vinnie]

The OP is just repeating what he heard on the TNT broadcast anyway, when they talked about Kobe guarding Rondo+roaming to help.
Again, rehashed, over exaggerated, old.

I'll also add that the same TNT crew pointed out that pretty much all of the Celtics starting five points in the paint come from Rondo's penetration.

Which one is it going to be?
Do you think we'd be in with a chance to even beat these top teams with 5 minutes to go without Rondo holding down the fort for the first 43 minutes of each game?

So you are saying that the fact that no one on the Lakers ha to guard Rondo the entir game is meaningless and had no impact on the Celtics? I simply can't remember another point guard who is supposedly in the top tier who the opposing team can ignore the whole game and not get burned. H is. Unique athlete, but i am not sure how much Better he is going to get - and he needs to get better.

Not meaningless, just not true.  Clearly you can see that "no one on the Lakers has to guard Rondo the entire game" is such a blatant exaggeration that it actually does your position more harm than good.

I understand being upset after a tough loss, but it's no reason to spout complete untruths as facts.

We must have watched different games. The game I watched had Kobe guarding Rondo fo most of it and had him 5-10 feet off him almost the entire time.  Kobe got to play centerfield because the Lakers have no respect for Rondo as a shooter.

[CelticsFanNC]

14 points and 7 assists?  That's not 28 points, its still 14.  Any starting point guard and go out and 7 assists on a given night.  Not special at all.  And 14 points?  Also not that impressive, especially considering they don't guard him.  

Going to the basket and scoring on a one man transition play is exciting (and counts as 2 points which helps), but it doesn't win you basketball games.  Same thing with his acrobatic layups in the paint around bigger players.  They are individual pays within a game.  2 points is 2 points is 2 points.  It doesn't matter what they look like.

  How many more assists would Rondo have had last if KG and Pierce were hitting the shots they have hit their entire careers?   Assists depend on others hitting shots which two key guys weren't doing for most of the game last night.

[Tgro]

the Lakers have no respect for Rondo as a shooter.

yep....

[Moranis]

Jackie Macmullen told a story on Around the Horn yesterday.  Four of five years ago she went to interview Doc Rivers and Rondo and Austin Rivers were shooting baskets on the opposite end of the floor.  Rondo made 600 of 1000, Austin made 800 of 1000.  She tells Doc, hey it appears your 8th grade son is a better shooter than your starting PG.  She didn't give Doc's response.  That was a long time ago and Rondo still can't shoot, which means he never will.  He knows he can't shoot so he doesn't shoot the ball even when he should in the flow of the offense.  He also holds onto the ball longer than he should.  The Celtics offense is at its best when the ball is moving around the perimeter looking for the open man, Rondo doesn't facilitate that at all.  

This is the biggest crock and you know it.
Can someone PLEASE answer my question:

How do we win the title in 2008 and then make the finals in 2010 if Rondo doesn't move the ball?
This is such garbage. Stop concentrating on Rondo's weaknesses and look at the weaknesses of our other key players.
Ray can barely get to the rim, he played well but took how many of Pierces shots away from him tonight? KG has one post move left- the spin and fade lob jump shot.
Pierce struggles with physical defense.
Ray was the only other one of our key four players who played average/above average and in doing so he took multiple looks away from Pierce.
There are two players on this team who are a consistent double threat, meaning they can penetrate, drawing defenses in, and finding open jump shooters. They are Rondo and Pierce.

Rondo doesn't move the ball.
Gimme a break.
And my name is Al Jefferson.

I'm waiting for someone to answer my question re 2008+2010 and how Rondo has hindered this team.

In 2008 and 2010 the Big 3 were younger, fresher, and better.  Rondo's style meshed better with them in that situation.  Rondo is not a good fit with the present iteration of the team.  The Celtics need a PG that is a much better scorer than Rondo is with the players on the team.  Even a lesser talented overall PG, but a better scorer would fit better with the team (a guy like Conley for example).