Are we really better w/o Rondo or will his return vault us back to eliteness?

[SHAQATTACK]

I'm for benching Rondo.  Unless DA is thinking that benching him hurts his trade value.   I still say we are better team with AB and Moore/Ray on the court. The team has a total different look....one than has direction .

Rondo is wild out of control turning the ball over.  If D will wasn't such a head case , I'd say trade em.

I dread Dooling returning and now I'm starting to feel the same about Rondo s play.   

[celtics2]

Bradley tonight +9, Rondo, -8.  Bradley seemed to be the guy to give them a spark that got them back in the game.  I have been on Rondo in this thread and I still think he has issues.  Tonight I thought he was not as aggressive as usual and favoring his arm.  I also thought that he was trying at times to move the ball more which I applaud although he just didn't have the energy and really had a subpar game by his standards.

Let's give him a few games though before we bench him for Bradley. I believe he can give the team more than Bradley but if he doesn't let his game evolve, Bradley may start to close the gap as I think Bradley's offense is going to come.

From the opening tip tonite when Rondo gets the ball and he does his Circus act bouncing  the ball high like a baby learning a new trick. It's all about Rondo holding the ball and being the highlight. Doc won't reign him in because he's a players coach. Rondo has an image of himself that only he sees. The more he plays the less his value. Rondo's value on a good team +500 good.....-500 mediocre. The Celts played over 500 w/Bradley, -500 with Rondo and a nasty 5 game losing streak. His trade value because of limited ability and and Evil Knievel's injuries is growing less and less. Bradley has more upside because Rondo has hit the top of the curve.

I dont know what you saw, but I'd say Pierce got us back in the game, and PP and Ray gave us the game.  Bradley didnt really have a good game, and certainly wasnt the catalyst of the comeback IMO.  The biggest advantage I saw with Bradley versus Rondo, is more ball movement, and a far less predictable offense.  When Ray or Pierce make the plays (which theyre forced to with Bradley in), the opposition doesnt really know what we're going to run.  When Rondo gets us set up, the offense almost looks choreographed.

[GreenFaith1819]

I think that once Rondo gets another game or two under him, he will be fine. He was a bit rusty, and like others have mentioned here, he seemed to favor the wrist a bit.

The funny thing is that we needed every bit of his production tonight to pull out the win, so I thank him for getting out there.

Just my take - but going forward we need Rondo. Definitely. BUT - we need diversity in the offense. I want to see Paul a bit more involved in distributing the ball, too. I had forgotten how good he was at doing that.

He's not as good as Rajon, but he's still perhaps one of the best SF's out there as far as passing.

But yes - once Rajon is fulling functioning again, with no issues - this team is better with him.

And we finally seem to have a fine BU for him now - in Avery Bradley, thankfully.

[Celtics4ever]

Rondo is coming off an injury.  PP wants him back and that is enough for me.   I trust his judgement more than the posters here.

[chambers]

Wow, just wow.
Guys first game back, and he loses an eye, whilst playing with one arm, and he's being put out to dry.

I guess people will be back on the bandwagon when he's getting 15 assists, 8 rebounds and 15 points when we beat real contenders.

I'm simply amazed at how quickly people can jump to conclusions about players over such small sample sizes.

2 weeks ago it was 'Pierce is done, KG is cooked, Rondo is our only good player left'.
And now it's the exact opposite.
The negativity towards these players that give their heart and soul to us fans every night is just mind boggling.

To the one guy who described Rondos 'selfish high bounce act at the start of the game', do you understand that he is moving slowly to set the pace of the game in the Celtics favor? Doc tells him to slow down at the start to set the tempo of the game in our favor.
Ever noticed how Moore, Bradley and Pierce all do the same thing by bringing it up at a snails pace?
Just unreal.

[crafty213]

When Pierce was asked what turned it around in the 4th his response was......Rondo.   Players know what is and should be happening....fans think they know what should be happening. As simple as that.

[ms.ball]

Wow, just wow.
Guys first game back, and he loses an eye, whilst playing with one arm, and he's being put out to dry.

I guess people will be back on the bandwagon when he's getting 15 assists, 8 rebounds and 15 points when we beat real contenders.

I'm simply amazed at how quickly people can jump to conclusions about players over such small sample sizes.

2 weeks ago it was 'Pierce is done, KG is cooked, Rondo is our only good player left'.
And now it's the exact opposite.
The negativity towards these players that give their heart and soul to us fans every night is just mind boggling.

To the one guy who described Rondos 'selfish high bounce act at the start of the game', do you understand that he is moving slowly to set the pace of the game in the Celtics favor? Doc tells him to slow down at the start to set the tempo of the game in our favor.
Ever noticed how Moore, Bradley and Pierce all do the same thing by bringing it up at a snails pace?
Just unreal.

T.P. for you. This I agree with. I'm not real sure how one can describe a player who's averages 10 apg selfish. The notion that people actually think we are a better team with Bradley and not Rondo kills me. Let's see Bradley go down in the post and Guard Lebron? Not happening! Let's see how well Pierce handles the pressure of getting the offense set up with having to defend the likes of Durant, Lebron, Gay, Deng, ect..... That's putting to much on him. I think people need to come back to earth and be realistic, No way in any shape, form, or fashion are we a better team without our All- star ,1 team defensive star!

[Vermont Green]

This team needs to work out the kinks.  At the moment they are playing better when they simplify things, and that is easier with Pierce running the show than Rondo, however, if they want any hope to beat elite teams, they are going to need to find the balance where they can use Rondo's strengths to compliment the other guys.

Doc needs to be hitting the film room hard right now, because this is on him, as much as it is on Rondo.  He has always been excellent at integrating players skillsets to maximize their positives and minimize their negatives.  Lets see what he can do here.

He has found the balance before, but this is a different group of players, and he needs to find it again.

This assumes that the players listen to Doc and in the case of Rondo, there are documented instances of Rondo not accepting direction very well.  Wasn't there a story about him smashing a TV or something.

I am totally giving Rondo the benefit of the doubt one game back from injury.  But that said, he didn't play well.  He didn't play better than Bradley, and the team didn't play better with him on the court than when Bradley was on the court.  I  aslo got the feeling that he has been told to move the ball more and that at times he was doing it.

To be honest though, I was having pangs of doubt about Rondo's attitude.  There is nothing conclusive of course but I just had this feeling that Rondo was kind of thinking, fine, you want me to play like Avery Bradley, I will play like Avery Bradley but then was kind of pouting about it and not playing with his normal energy.

I know this is a stretch but the doubt is there in my mind.  As I said, it was his first game back and I think his wrist is still on his mind so let's just see what he does over the next few games.  This is not going to as easy as Rondo's back, all is well though in my opinion.

[2short]

Wow, just wow.
Guys first game back, and he loses an eye, whilst playing with one arm, and he's being put out to dry.

I guess people will be back on the bandwagon when he's getting 15 assists, 8 rebounds and 15 points when we beat real contenders.

I'm simply amazed at how quickly people can jump to conclusions about players over such small sample sizes.

2 weeks ago it was 'Pierce is done, KG is cooked, Rondo is our only good player left'.
And now it's the exact opposite.
The negativity towards these players that give their heart and soul to us fans every night is just mind boggling.

To the one guy who described Rondos 'selfish high bounce act at the start of the game', do you understand that he is moving slowly to set the pace of the game in the Celtics favor? Doc tells him to slow down at the start to set the tempo of the game in our favor.
Ever noticed how Moore, Bradley and Pierce all do the same thing by bringing it up at a snails pace?
Just unreal.

agreed, the negativity this year on the blog has made reading it / logging on now that interesting , less discussion on the team

[cman88]

before the injury rondo was averaging 15ppg and 10assists

hes been gone for 8 games..lets give him some time to get in the flow of things.

[Eja117]

Wow, just wow.
Guys first game back, and he loses an eye, whilst playing with one arm, and he's being put out to dry.

I guess people will be back on the bandwagon when he's getting 15 assists, 8 rebounds and 15 points when we beat real contenders.

I'm simply amazed at how quickly people can jump to conclusions about players over such small sample sizes.

2 weeks ago it was 'Pierce is done, KG is cooked, Rondo is our only good player left'.
And now it's the exact opposite.
The negativity towards these players that give their heart and soul to us fans every night is just mind boggling.

To the one guy who described Rondos 'selfish high bounce act at the start of the game', do you understand that he is moving slowly to set the pace of the game in the Celtics favor? Doc tells him to slow down at the start to set the tempo of the game in our favor.
Ever noticed how Moore, Bradley and Pierce all do the same thing by bringing it up at a snails pace?
Just unreal.

agreed, the negativity this year on the blog has made reading it / logging on now that interesting , less discussion on the team

Don't confuse enthusiasm for young guys and recognizing reality about the flaws of the old guys as negativity.

[Eja117]

Wow, just wow.
Guys first game back, and he loses an eye, whilst playing with one arm, and he's being put out to dry.

I guess people will be back on the bandwagon when he's getting 15 assists, 8 rebounds and 15 points when we beat real contenders.

I'm simply amazed at how quickly people can jump to conclusions about players over such small sample sizes.

2 weeks ago it was 'Pierce is done, KG is cooked, Rondo is our only good player left'.
And now it's the exact opposite.
The negativity towards these players that give their heart and soul to us fans every night is just mind boggling.

To the one guy who described Rondos 'selfish high bounce act at the start of the game', do you understand that he is moving slowly to set the pace of the game in the Celtics favor? Doc tells him to slow down at the start to set the tempo of the game in our favor.
Ever noticed how Moore, Bradley and Pierce all do the same thing by bringing it up at a snails pace?
Just unreal.

I don't think anyone is exactly saying he's a scrub or a lost cause. Just that due to a variety of factors such as his injury and shooting that hasn't improved at this moment a surprisingly tough young player like Avery B might give us a better chance to win, and if he keeps improving, as we all do, he could pooooossssiiibbbllly give us a better chance going forward, especially if we got something good in a trade for Rondo. 
Thinking out loud about what we see isn't exactly bandwagoning.  Close cousin...I give you that.

[BudweiserCeltic]

When Pierce was asked what turned it around in the 4th his response was......Rondo.   Players know what is and should be happening....fans think they know what should be happening. As simple as that.

Players like to talk a lot of crap.

[dtrader]

before the injury rondo was averaging 15ppg and 10assists

hes been gone for 8 games..lets give him some time to get in the flow of things.

Thats true, but his numbers were artificially inflated by playing without Pierce the 1st 3 games (all loses).  Without those games, his averages would be substantially lower.  I'm not saying that he wont get better as he gets back into the swing of things, but people keep bringing up the numbers he put up early in the year, and it doesnt make sense IMO to expect that now unless we take PP out of the equation again.

[Greg]

before the injury rondo was averaging 15ppg and 10assists

hes been gone for 8 games..lets give him some time to get in the flow of things.

Thats true, but his numbers were artificially inflated by playing without Pierce the 1st 3 games (all loses).  Without those games, his averages would be substantially lower.  I'm not saying that he wont get better as he gets back into the swing of things, but people keep bringing up the numbers he put up early in the year, and it doesnt make sense IMO to expect that now unless we take PP out of the equation again.

The opposite would actually be true.  Rondo was still playing with two other starts (Allen and KG) and putting up 20+ PPG numbers.  Of course his numbers dipped with Pierce back in the line-up.  That's what happens when you add an All-Star scorer to a team.

And Rondo almost single handily beat the Heat for us.  So lets say we dump Rondo for a couple of draft picks, a big, and some other contract.  Then one of the big three goes down.  Do you think Avery Bradley will be great then?

I think Avery Bradley does some things well that allows him to gel with the starters.  But you cannot consistently expect him to play the type of on-ball defense all the way up the court that he does in spurts now.

Just overall, before we throw Rondo under the bus, lets just remember all this guy has done to carry the Celtics the past couple of years (Bulls series in '09, Heat series last year) and the great things he has start to do this year.  It was less than a month ago that we were calling Avery Bradley a "bust."

Have some patience, these things tend to work themselves out.