Are we really better w/o Rondo or will his return vault us back to eliteness?

[Fafnir]

Here's what has been baffling to me...

With Pierce in the game, the Celtics consistently get out and run more. He looks for outlets every time and is looking to push.

I can't for the life of me figure out why Rondo was crawling up the floor before he got hurt.

I suspect that right now, Rondo is studying, taking everything in, getting healthy, and will come back and apply his abilities to tailor to something the Celtics have hit on.

Maybe Rondo can play off the ball more like Bradley does and Pierce can lead some breaks.

My eyes told me the opposite, checked http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/fastbreak-points-per-game for some data about it.

ESPN boxscores say the same thing, just aren't getting many points in transition at all since Rondo's injury.

Before Rondo was hurt we played at a pace of around 87 possesions a game, after we've played at a pace of around 88 (not much different but faster)

Through 13 games we had 12.2 PPG in transition, season to date we have 9.9 PPG in transition.

So roughly 158 transition points in the 13 games with Rondo, with a rough total 208 for the year. That's 50 transition points total in 8 games without Rondo. So we're down to 6.25 PPG in transition without Rondo.

I think as in the past our transition game is entirely reliant on Rajon Rondo pushing the pace.

[Celtics4ever]

With Pierce in the game, the Celtics consistently get out and run more. He looks for outlets every time and is looking to push.

No one runs with Rondo from the starters if so it's rare.  Usually him going one on one with someone for a layup.

[Celticjay]

Clearly Rondo is a stud, but it does seem that the TEAM has played better and is slightly more involved collectively with Pierce running the offense. 

Seems Doc needs to mix it up a bit and let Rondo defer at times to Pierce and Rondo could make some cuts or go into the post so he still has to be accounted for.  He obviously doesn't space the floor.

Ray running around picks all day is fine a good but it really bogs things down for the others and they become spectators.  Very rarely does Ray even get a good look anyway.  I think they should cut that down significantly.  Ray Allen in the corner provides tons of spacing and would open it up for Rondo and Pierce to penetrate which would breakdown the defence.  Most of the Celtics are great passers so I feel a little penetration or a deep post entry would get us many open looks.

The second issue is Bradley's pressure defense has just taken teams out of their offense.  Teams are struggling to get things set up and their point guards are just getting worn out and passing to a wing once they get past half court.  Bradley stays in front of his man and doesn't gamble like Rondo.

Seems to me that Rondo's minutes should be cut to around 30 and he should be instructed to pick up guys half court like Bradley more.  Less minutes but more intense minutes with less gambling..   Then once he goes out you bring in Bradley for 16 minutes of hell on the opposing point guards.  This could be our biggest weapon and strength is year.

Imagine if we got another Center with decent defense who could rebound.  Defensively we could be better than the 08 team. 

We'll go as far as our defense takes us.

If used correctly Rondo can be huge for us.  We'll see if Doc sees this...

[j804]

Clearly Rondo is a stud, but it does seem that the TEAM has played better and is slightly more involved collectively with Pierce running the offense. 

Seems Doc needs to mix it up a bit and let Rondo defer at times to Pierce and Rondo could make some cuts or go into the post so he still has to be accounted for.  He obviously doesn't space the floor.

Ray running around picks all day is fine a good but it really bogs things down for the others and they become spectators.  Very rarely does Ray even get a good look anyway.  I think they should cut that down significantly.  Ray Allen in the corner provides tons of spacing and would open it up for Rondo and Pierce to penetrate which would breakdown the defence.  Most of the Celtics are great passers so I feel a little penetration or a deep post entry would get us many open looks.

The second issue is Bradley's pressure defense has just taken teams out of their offense.  Teams are struggling to get things set up and their point guards are just getting worn out and passing to a wing once they get past half court.  Bradley stays in front of his man and doesn't gamble like Rondo.

Seems to me that Rondo's minutes should be cut to around 30 and he should be instructed to pick up guys half court like Bradley more.  Less minutes but more intense minutes with less gambling..   Then once he goes out you bring in Bradley for 16 minutes of hell on the opposing point guards.  This could be our biggest weapon and strength is year.

Imagine if we got another Center with decent defense who could rebound.  Defensively we could be better than the 08 team. 

We'll go as far as our defense takes us.

If used correctly Rondo can be huge for us.  We'll see if Doc sees this...

I think him running around picks and all is good but we don't always HAVE to go to him at times Rondo goes to him no matter what only to get the ball back right away killing a bunch of clock. We got to use him even as a decoy and have people cutting the way Thibs uses Korver

[BudweiserCeltic]

As opposed to hiding him  in the corner like they do with Bradley?

I think we're better served with Rondo making a pass early in the shot clock often, just to get our players and ball moving then come back and get the ball. It's usually when our offense is at our best.

First play of the game, early pass from Rondo to start the offense, ball movement, and an open 3-pointer from Ray. Let's see this continue.

[33_Larry Legend_33]

Hate to say it, but I think we're learning what other GM's are learning: Rondo is indeed overrated.

The ball movement tonight is TERRIBLE.  Contrast what it looked like with him out of the lineup and this is just dreadful to watch.

Maybe the Hornets would take him...

[Eja117]

If I'm Doc I might vveerrrryyy quietly pull aside Avery and say "Pssstt. Don't tell a soul, but if you get to the point where you can shoot about 45% fg, 34% 3s, and 79% ft, and you can do it kinda consistently, you can be the starting point guard. Seriously. Not a promise. Just what I think"

[Eja117]

You gotta give Ainge credit. By the time the Big 3 slowed down Rondo was supposed to be able to hit outside shots and threes. It never happened. But the good thing is he signed him to a good deal. Only 10 mill. Any other team would have given him between 13 and 16. And now he's a very tradeable commodity. Avery gets serious play time and shows at the age of 20 he can play somewhat and is likely to develop too. Ainge and Doc have made the best of a bad situation. Don't be surprised to see someone moved at the deadline

[Eja117]

If I'm Ainge I'm calling Doc into the office and telling him "Close the door. The story is yes we knew Avery would be this good, and no, we never doubted it for a minute"

My biggest fear for Avery right now is Rondo reads the book "Pull the trigger. The autobiography of Gilbert Arenas", totally misinterprets it, and blows away poor Avery in a fit of rage when old drinking buddy Delonte is in town.

[snively]

If I'm Ainge I'm calling Doc into the office and telling him "Close the door. The story is yes we knew Avery would be this good, and no, we never doubted it for a minute"

My biggest fear for Avery right now is Rondo reads the book "Pull the trigger. The autobiography of Gilbert Arenas", totally misinterprets it, and blows away poor Avery in a fit of rage when old drinking buddy Delonte is in town.

Speaking of pulling the trigger, isn't a bit early to pull the trigger on declaring Bradley the better option at point guard?

[Eja117]

If I'm Ainge I'm calling Doc into the office and telling him "Close the door. The story is yes we knew Avery would be this good, and no, we never doubted it for a minute"

My biggest fear for Avery right now is Rondo reads the book "Pull the trigger. The autobiography of Gilbert Arenas", totally misinterprets it, and blows away poor Avery in a fit of rage when old drinking buddy Delonte is in town.

Speaking of pulling the trigger, isn't a bit early to pull the trigger on declaring Bradley the better option at point guard?

let me check his shooting %s

[Eja117]

If I'm Ainge I'm calling Doc into the office and telling him "Close the door. The story is yes we knew Avery would be this good, and no, we never doubted it for a minute"

My biggest fear for Avery right now is Rondo reads the book "Pull the trigger. The autobiography of Gilbert Arenas", totally misinterprets it, and blows away poor Avery in a fit of rage when old drinking buddy Delonte is in town.

Speaking of pulling the trigger, isn't a bit early to pull the trigger on declaring Bradley the better option at point guard?

yes it's a tad bit early

[nicknorman]

If I'm Ainge I'm calling Doc into the office and telling him "Close the door. The story is yes we knew Avery would be this good, and no, we never doubted it for a minute"

My biggest fear for Avery right now is Rondo reads the book "Pull the trigger. The autobiography of Gilbert Arenas", totally misinterprets it, and blows away poor Avery in a fit of rage when old drinking buddy Delonte is in town.

Speaking of pulling the trigger, isn't a bit early to pull the trigger on declaring Bradley the better option at point guard?

yes it's a tad bit early

Wow, some people turn on injured players fast.

Rondo

[Kuberski1]

At the end of the game tonight, I was half-thinking...leave AB in.  The problem is that Avery is still so limited offensively - even if he could dribble with the ball as well as Paul or Ray, who are not 1s, that would be a big help.  Rondo certainly a better passer and penetrater, but Avery making his presence felt.

[Eja117]

If I'm Ainge I'm calling Doc into the office and telling him "Close the door. The story is yes we knew Avery would be this good, and no, we never doubted it for a minute"

My biggest fear for Avery right now is Rondo reads the book "Pull the trigger. The autobiography of Gilbert Arenas", totally misinterprets it, and blows away poor Avery in a fit of rage when old drinking buddy Delonte is in town.

Speaking of pulling the trigger, isn't a bit early to pull the trigger on declaring Bradley the better option at point guard?

yes it's a tad bit early

Wow, some people turn on injured players fast.

Rondo

he wasn't injured tonight