Are we really better w/o Rondo or will his return vault us back to eliteness?

[LB3533]

PP and KG have taken their games up another level during this stretch without Rondo.

We've won these games largely in part to our increased defensive pressure.

If everyone is playing up to par and then we get Rondo back, we are legit contenders.

There is no doubt in my mind.

Will we win the title...I don't know, but we sure as heck have a good a chance as anyone.

[GreenEnvy]

Okay we have an 8 game sample now w/o Rondo; that's 12% of the season this year.  We've gone 6-2 and really deserved to be 7-1.  That one loss to PHO was the very first game w/o Rondo and clearly the kids were not ready to step in yet.  We've beat our first quality opponents during this stretch as well.

We are scoring points and playing good defense; but the rebounding is still suspect.  Now on offense, teams just zone off Rondo.  On defense Rondo gambles too much and it can collapse our D at times.  But at the same time Rondo brings a lot to the table.

Now we're playing the way most people thought this team would play like this year; not exactly a top level contender, but just outside of that and probably a 3-4 seed in the conference.  But all w/o Rondo.

So with a healthy Rondo back in tow, are we going back to mediocrity or this team going to make some noise? 

  That's really what you see when you watch the games? You haven't noticed any improvement in KG and PP since they're getting healthier/into better shape? Wow.

He never said they weren't playing better.

But they do look better out there. I am not looking at the numbers, but the offense does look better with Pierce controlling the offense. Defensively, there is no question about it. Even if Bradley gets beat in the halfcourt, it's usually too late to run a decent play and it turns into hero ball.

I don't think they will be worse without Rondo, but his negatives take away a lot of his positives. So how much better will we get is the real question. We will know soon enough. There are no excuses now. Once he comes back, Pierce and KG look right, Ray's ankles don't appear to be a problem, we now have confident backups (too many?) for Rondo.

If this team goes on a slide, with Fisher driving past him for clutch baskets or Rose torching him again, it's got to fall on Rondo.

[ACF]

Like others have said, I think it pretty much comes down to our players getting in shape. Of course we'll be better with Rajon. Top 3 PG in the NBA. In my opinion, we've got one of the most talented starting fives in the league (Yes, I know we're not Miami but we are good) and a pretty strong bench. We just needed some time to get in the rhythm. I know that's true for all teams but not all teams are as talented as the C's.

I'm telling you: If we can't get our hands on a lot more rebounds and we make the playoffs (barring injuries - *throws imaginary salt over left shoulder*) teams will not want to face us. Like others have stated, if we should face the Bulls or the Heat in the first round, I like our chances. I know I'm one of the Glass Half Full Guys, but I truly believe that this team will not go quietly into the night and that they'll (once again) surprise a lot of people, in a good way of course.

[Marcus13]

I dont think its fair to say yet because when Rondo was playing, Pierce wasn't (or he was playing terribly).  We'll see what happens when Rondo gets back -- if he just gives an effort on defense then we shouldnt miss a step

[BballTim]

Okay we have an 8 game sample now w/o Rondo; that's 12% of the season this year.  We've gone 6-2 and really deserved to be 7-1.  That one loss to PHO was the very first game w/o Rondo and clearly the kids were not ready to step in yet.  We've beat our first quality opponents during this stretch as well.

We are scoring points and playing good defense; but the rebounding is still suspect.  Now on offense, teams just zone off Rondo.  On defense Rondo gambles too much and it can collapse our D at times.  But at the same time Rondo brings a lot to the table.

Now we're playing the way most people thought this team would play like this year; not exactly a top level contender, but just outside of that and probably a 3-4 seed in the conference.  But all w/o Rondo.

So with a healthy Rondo back in tow, are we going back to mediocrity or this team going to make some noise? 

  That's really what you see when you watch the games? You haven't noticed any improvement in KG and PP since they're getting healthier/into better shape? Wow.

He never said they weren't playing better.

But they do look better out there. I am not looking at the numbers, but the offense does look better with Pierce controlling the offense. Defensively, there is no question about it. Even if Bradley gets beat in the halfcourt, it's usually too late to run a decent play and it turns into hero ball.

  Again, if you think the offense looks better then I'd question what you're looking for. The only reason the gulf in the offense with and without Rondo this year wasn't wider is because PP and KG (and others) were missing so many layups and wide open shots earlier this year.

I don't think they will be worse without Rondo, but his negatives take away a lot of his positives. So how much better will we get is the real question. We will know soon enough. There are no excuses now. Once he comes back, Pierce and KG look right, Ray's ankles don't appear to be a problem, we now have confident backups (too many?) for Rondo.

If this team goes on a slide, with Fisher driving past him for clutch baskets or Rose torching him again, it's got to fall on Rondo.

  One thing that you can always count on here is that no matter what goes wrong, people will find a way to blame Rondo. People notice every defensive mistake or bad game that he has without giving much thought at all to how well the players he guard normally do or how often other point guards make defensive mistakes or have bad games defensively. Such is life.

[letsgoblue86]

I'll let the captain respond to you.......

I love the Captain and all... but seriously?  "Wen" and "bak"?

[dtrader]

I'd say we are definitely better off with Rondo around. Watching the Cleveland games proved that for two reasons:

1) The opposing PG doesn't need to concern himself with defending Avery Bradley. Irving and other elite PGs are going to light us up late in the game if they don't have to worry about the PG spot being a factor offensively.

2) Pierce looked completely gassed at the end of both games. With the PG spot being so weak, he's forced into a point forward role. For a guy we rely on late in games to score points, that's not good.

If we were talking about almost any other PG in the league, I'd understand this argument, but with Rondo I dont think it makes sense.  Opposing PGs DONT need to concern themselves with defending Rondo.  He scores all his points in transition, and off cuts (very similar to Bradley). 

  Rondo's scored roughly a third of his baskets in transition and on cuts. People give Rondo more space when he's on the outside to prevent his penetration, but it's far from true that they don't concern themselves with guarding him.

Teams play both Bradley and Moore tighter than they do Rondo.  At no time have I seen either of the young players dared to shoot like teams do Rondo.  It certainly isnt a case where defenders have been leaving AB and Moore open + alone, and will hound Rondo.  Like you said...Rondo is given more space.  It doesnt make sense to say that the opposing PG will get more tired defending a player they routinely give space to, versus one that they stay up on.  Still...1/3rd is definitely lower than I expected in terms of Rondos points from transition and cuts. Where is that # from?

[kozlodoev]

I hope that when Rondo's back he'll stop coughing up the ball 4 times a game. It's unacceptable.

[BballTim]

I'd say we are definitely better off with Rondo around. Watching the Cleveland games proved that for two reasons:

1) The opposing PG doesn't need to concern himself with defending Avery Bradley. Irving and other elite PGs are going to light us up late in the game if they don't have to worry about the PG spot being a factor offensively.

2) Pierce looked completely gassed at the end of both games. With the PG spot being so weak, he's forced into a point forward role. For a guy we rely on late in games to score points, that's not good.

If we were talking about almost any other PG in the league, I'd understand this argument, but with Rondo I dont think it makes sense.  Opposing PGs DONT need to concern themselves with defending Rondo.  He scores all his points in transition, and off cuts (very similar to Bradley). 

  Rondo's scored roughly a third of his baskets in transition and on cuts. People give Rondo more space when he's on the outside to prevent his penetration, but it's far from true that they don't concern themselves with guarding him.

Teams play both Bradley and Moore tighter than they do Rondo.  At no time have I seen either of the young players dared to shoot like teams do Rondo.  It certainly isnt a case where defenders have been leaving AB and Moore open + alone, and will hound Rondo.  Like you said...Rondo is given more space.  It doesnt make sense to say that the opposing PG will get more tired defending a player they routinely give space to, versus one that they stay up on.  Still...1/3rd is definitely lower than I expected in terms of Rondos points from transition and cuts. Where is that # from?

  synergy sports. Moore's a better shooter so they stay closer to him when he's dribbling. Bradley's left alone to the point that he can stroll in from the three point line (in the corner) to the rim without anyone even picking him up. I'm not saying that teams hound Rondo but saying that he's ignored is nonsensical.

[BballTim]

I hope that when Rondo's back he'll stop coughing up the ball 4 times a game. It's unacceptable.

  Most of the point guards were turning the ball over a lot at the beginning of the year. The shortened preseason no doubt had a lot to do with that.

[Capricious]

Rondo can never win with this fanbase...

Who needs an allstar point guard when you have the immortal combination of avery bradley and etwaun moore?

[scaryjerry]

Despite the W's this team misses Rondo
althrough this has been good for the other guys rounding into shape and the young guys actually getting playing time and experience...ultimately it will help but we're better with rondo....still not sure about "elite"

[kozlodoev]

I hope that when Rondo's back he'll stop coughing up the ball 4 times a game. It's unacceptable.

  Most of the point guards were turning the ball over a lot at the beginning of the year. The shortened preseason no doubt had a lot to do with that.

Not really. From the top PGs, the only ones that seemed to be in a funk were Deron Williams and Kyle Lowry. Everyone else was pretty much up to par with their last season performance.

[celtics2]

We will revert to losing but Doc will not have the balls to work him off the bench. This guys career here has been made possible by some of the best Players today playing for the Celts. His inability to hit the shot has caused undue stress on our starters. A Dennis Johnson type guard would feed these boys just as well and probably better. Defenses have been collapsing since Rondo has been throwing bricks. His defense is sloppy and where most of his points come from drives he has paid a price and so has the team by missing playing time due to theatrics.

[BballTim]

I hope that when Rondo's back he'll stop coughing up the ball 4 times a game. It's unacceptable.

  Most of the point guards were turning the ball over a lot at the beginning of the year. The shortened preseason no doubt had a lot to do with that.

Not really. From the top PGs, the only ones that seemed to be in a funk were Deron Williams and Kyle Lowry. Everyone else was pretty much up to par with their last season performance.

  Without even looking, I'd say that Nash and Westbrook were in that grouping as well. I'm sure there were others as well.