Author Topic: E'Twaun vs Avery  (Read 12825 times)

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E'Twaun vs Avery
« on: February 01, 2012, 09:15:20 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I don't care who is better anymore. I don't care if people think Bradley isn't an NBA player or if ETM is destined for Europe.

I love them both.

This stretch has given them some time to prove they belong and has given Doc two very dangerous weapons, a defensive stopper and harasser and an outside shooter and scorer.

I'm loving my young Celtics PGs and yes that does include our starter, 25 year old Rajon Rondo.

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 09:19:38 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I don't care who is better anymore. I don't care if people think Bradley isn't an NBA player or if ETM is destined for Europe.

I love them both.

This stretch has given them some time to prove they belong and has given Doc two very dangerous weapons, a defensive stopper and harasser and an outside shooter and scorer.

I'm loving my young Celtics PGs and yes that does include our starter, 25 year old Rajon Rondo.
Nick, is that really you?  It doesn't sound like you.  It sounds like that PLamb character talking  ;)

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2012, 09:27:17 PM »

Offline ManUp

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Someone needs to find that fusion/teleportation machine from "the Fly" and throw them both in there.

Etwaun Bradley would be a really nice player.

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2012, 09:50:07 PM »

Offline gar

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Someone needs to find that fusion/teleportation machine from "the Fly" and throw them both in there.

Etwaun Bradley would be a really nice player.

Read my mind! tp

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2012, 09:56:38 PM »

Offline Eja117

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has any Celt ever made a turnaround like this in his 2nd year from basically a zombie to a real live player with optimistic potential before?

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2012, 10:01:54 PM »

Offline dtrader

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has any Celt ever made a turnaround like this in his 2nd year from basically a zombie to a real live player with optimistic potential before?

Has anyone ever had their minutes per game basically quadrupled before?  I'd say thats the biggest variable.  It's not like he suddenly became a much better defender, shooter, passer, etc.  He's just playing more.

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2012, 07:53:51 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think they both have a place in the NBA.

While I don't think either has too high of a ceiling beyond the bench.  I hope I am wrong.   I don't see either being all stars but they both are servicable in their own ways.  We should only be better once Rondo returns with this experience.

It would be nice to see them both have decent games like last night.  Prior to last night this hasn't happened.  But they both played decent last night and our composite PG scored  19 pts and had 5 assists with 2 TOs.

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2012, 09:03:16 AM »

Online SHAQATTACK

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Thanks to Rondo 's wrist, these guys have had a chance to get REAL playing time and gain confidence.  They both seem to be improving by leaps and bounds each passing game.  

In fact, I believe Rondo out of the lineup has helped prepare the Celtics for the upcomming tuffer series with Road trips.

It was Rondos misfortune may have turned into a pot of gold for the Celtics.

I feel better about Moore handling the ball already than Ray.  

Not only does Moore take care of the ball , that kid can shoot the lights out of it .

RIght now Moore 's confidence and shooting and AB's energy and strong "D" is just what the doctor ordered.

The Celtics NEED to START and FINISH with energy,  I'm sorry , superstar or not,   RAY ALLEN needs to comeoff the bench IMO. Let these kids take off and get the show running.

If I were Doc , I'd play those guys ...ALOT... maybe even start Moore if he continues to improve......the Heats Coles is better than worthless vets they have .... I think Moore is everybit as good as coles.

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2012, 09:32:17 AM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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Someone needs to find that fusion/teleportation machine from "the Fly" and throw them both in there.

Etwaun Bradley would be a really nice player.

Very well put. The thing that scares me about Bradley is how our supposed "back up PG" can get only 2 assists in 26 minutes of play where we are blowing out the other squad. His assist numbers are not good at all. He really is a 2 stuck in a PG body and unless he can get more consistency with that jumper it is going to be tough to see him get any consistent minutes. Moore, if he can continue to improve defensively, will take his minutes in a hurry. I'd be okay trying to trade Bradley for something while he is for once in his career a possible chip. I just don't think he will be any more than a defensive stopper out there.

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2012, 09:33:28 AM »

Offline TBreezy

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has any Celt ever made a turnaround like this in his 2nd year from basically a zombie to a real live player with optimistic potential before?

Has anyone ever had their minutes per game basically quadrupled before?  I'd say thats the biggest variable.  It's not like he suddenly became a much better defender, shooter, passer, etc.  He's just playing more.

Lets look at like this, he was hurt starting in the preseason last year and had no camp whatsoever.  He was also  transitioning to a point spot - from his more natural combo  / two.  Any expectations beyond him struggling last year were unrealistic.  Now, I expected a poor start for him last year - and he was so bad he far exceeded that.

The lack of a training camp this year is also a factor.  So it doesn't surprise me he is looking better.  Doesn't everybody remmeber th step from JV to V in highschool and how much faster the game was at first?  Confidence and timing take playing time to develop.

I am pleased with how he is progressing, but not yet willing to make the projection game.  But looks to be a player that may be able to carve out at minimum a niche role in the NBA for a long time.  Perhaps, if he able to gain some consisteny on his offensive game - more.

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2012, 10:14:43 AM »

Offline MBunge

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has any Celt ever made a turnaround like this in his 2nd year from basically a zombie to a real live player with optimistic potential before?

Has anyone ever had their minutes per game basically quadrupled before?  I'd say thats the biggest variable. 

I don't think that's arguable.  When the season started Doc was giving Avery less than 10 minutes a games and that was generous considering how bad he still looked. Even after that break-thru game against the Nets, he went back to struggling so much that Doc actually played a rookie over him.  But since Rondo went down and Avery suddenly got to play 30some minutes a game, he's gone from looking like a draft bust to a legitimate NBA player.

Young players need to play.

Mike

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2012, 10:20:31 AM »

Offline dtrader

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has any Celt ever made a turnaround like this in his 2nd year from basically a zombie to a real live player with optimistic potential before?

Has anyone ever had their minutes per game basically quadrupled before?  I'd say thats the biggest variable.  It's not like he suddenly became a much better defender, shooter, passer, etc.  He's just playing more.

Lets look at like this, he was hurt starting in the preseason last year and had no camp whatsoever.  He was also  transitioning to a point spot - from his more natural combo  / two.  Any expectations beyond him struggling last year were unrealistic.  Now, I expected a poor start for him last year - and he was so bad he far exceeded that.

The lack of a training camp this year is also a factor.  So it doesn't surprise me he is looking better.  Doesn't everybody remmeber th step from JV to V in highschool and how much faster the game was at first?  Confidence and timing take playing time to develop.

I am pleased with how he is progressing, but not yet willing to make the projection game.  But looks to be a player that may be able to carve out at minimum a niche role in the NBA for a long time.  Perhaps, if he able to gain some consisteny on his offensive game - more.

I dont see what being injured or missing camp has to do with his minutes quadrupling.  Maybe you're saying thats why his minutes were low before, but that wouldnt contest my point (that his "improvement" is just a factor of increased visibility due to more playing time).  If you compare his advanced stats (totalfg%, effective fg%, assist%, rebound%, turnover%, steals%, etc)...he hasnt improved much from last season.

Really, what progress have you seen from him?  His shot isnt better, he doesnt appear to be any better at handling the ball or passing, and his decision making is still questionable at best.  The only thing anyone can consistently say about him, is that his defense is great....but that was the case last year as well.

People always bring up his missing camp as a reason for his stalled development, but that doesnt make sense.  No one was knocking him for not knowing our sets, or playing bad team defense (the things most developed in camp).  It's his skills (dribbling, shooting, etc) that need work.  An extended lockout shouldve given him MORE time than any other season to improve those things...but he didnt. 

You're saying another part of the problem was his transitioning to the PG spot, but did he ever even make that transition?  He doesnt even really play PG now.  He DEFENDS the opposing point guard because at his size thats the only player he can realistically be expected to guard, but he is almost never the play maker for us on offense.  He's a terrible passer, and forced Pierce to play point-forward to compensate for him.  On the flip side, I can't really say he is a natural SG either, because early in the season when we played him there he was atrocious.  You can't be a "shooting guard" if you can't shoot.

He has carved out a niche for himself though. He is a great on the ball defender.    My whole point, is thats exactly who he was last year as well.  I think the "improvements" were seeing are all just an illusion from the increased minutes.

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2012, 10:33:23 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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Imagine that, you give young players time, despite their weaknesses / mistakes, and they develop rapidly.

Who knew?
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

"I know you all wanna win, but you gotta do it TOGETHER!"
- Doc Rivers

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2012, 11:09:32 AM »

Offline TBreezy

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has any Celt ever made a turnaround like this in his 2nd year from basically a zombie to a real live player with optimistic potential before?

Has anyone ever had their minutes per game basically quadrupled before?  I'd say thats the biggest variable.  It's not like he suddenly became a much better defender, shooter, passer, etc.  He's just playing more.

Lets look at like this, he was hurt starting in the preseason last year and had no camp whatsoever.  He was also  transitioning to a point spot - from his more natural combo  / two.  Any expectations beyond him struggling last year were unrealistic.  Now, I expected a poor start for him last year - and he was so bad he far exceeded that.

The lack of a training camp this year is also a factor.  So it doesn't surprise me he is looking better.  Doesn't everybody remmeber th step from JV to V in highschool and how much faster the game was at first?  Confidence and timing take playing time to develop.

I am pleased with how he is progressing, but not yet willing to make the projection game.  But looks to be a player that may be able to carve out at minimum a niche role in the NBA for a long time.  Perhaps, if he able to gain some consisteny on his offensive game - more.

I dont see what being injured or missing camp has to do with his minutes quadrupling.  Maybe you're saying thats why his minutes were low before, but that wouldnt contest my point (that his "improvement" is just a factor of increased visibility due to more playing time).  If you compare his advanced stats (totalfg%, effective fg%, assist%, rebound%, turnover%, steals%, etc)...he hasnt improved much from last season.

Really, what progress have you seen from him?  His shot isnt better, he doesnt appear to be any better at handling the ball or passing, and his decision making is still questionable at best.  The only thing anyone can consistently say about him, is that his defense is great....but that was the case last year as well.

People always bring up his missing camp as a reason for his stalled development, but that doesnt make sense.  No one was knocking him for not knowing our sets, or playing bad team defense (the things most developed in camp).  It's his skills (dribbling, shooting, etc) that need work.  An extended lockout shouldve given him MORE time than any other season to improve those things...but he didnt. 

You're saying another part of the problem was his transitioning to the PG spot, but did he ever even make that transition?  He doesnt even really play PG now.  He DEFENDS the opposing point guard because at his size thats the only player he can realistically be expected to guard, but he is almost never the play maker for us on offense.  He's a terrible passer, and forced Pierce to play point-forward to compensate for him.  On the flip side, I can't really say he is a natural SG either, because early in the season when we played him there he was atrocious.  You can't be a "shooting guard" if you can't shoot.

He has carved out a niche for himself though. He is a great on the ball defender.    My whole point, is thats exactly who he was last year as well.  I think the "improvements" were seeing are all just an illusion from the increased minutes.

I would expect that his minutes would increase with practice.  Preseason is the the most consistent practice a rookie gets - he has had to replace that time through the regular eeason - so the up take will be longer. 

He is gambling less on defense this year, and for some reason getting called for less hand checking / slapping calls - an improvement.  His jumper doesn't lok bad, his results are bad but his form is more than fine, and he looks more willing to shoot this year than last - but I don't have any evidence of this.

Re: E'Twaun vs Avery
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2012, 11:17:17 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Sometimes it takes guys time to figure it out, like with Bradley. Sometimes it happens quickly, like with Moore.

We shouldn't assume that when a player finally turns the corner like Bradley, it means he could have done that a year before. There are plenty of examples in the NBA of guys who took time to figure out what they were doing. There are also plenty who never figured it out. Imagine if we force fed minutes to Pruitt all season? Sometimes people want so badly to prove a point that beg the question.

Many people like to talk about Doc not playing young guys, but there is a lack of examples of these same guys succeeding elsewhere.