Bill Simmons idea: JO+our two 2012 first round picks for Verajao

[winsomme]

Honestly, I'm torn on this trade idea.

On one hand, I really like Varejao as a player.  He would absolutely be an improvement over JO.  Amazing offensive rebounder, husltles, and good defensive player.

The problem I would have is the salary he is paid.  He is scheduled to make 8m next season and 9m the year after.  Basically he would be getting roughly the same (slightly more actually) money that Danny was unwilling to pay Perk.  This just doesn't make sense to me.  If we were unwilling to pay Perk, why would we pay Varejao?  I'd have rather just kept Perk, who I feel is slightly better overall.

I know, past failed trades shouldn't be reason to not make future trades, but that is exactly what making this move would be.  An admission by Ainge the Perk trade was a bust.



By the way, sorry to make this about Perk.  I just had to point out the irony.

Perk who has 4.8 PPG, 46 FG% 5.5 RPG, 7.27 PER... that Perk? I think you guys have a delusion about what Perk has become since his latest big injury. For all this talk about how good defense Perk plays and how we missed him in last year's playoffs, I thought Perk's defense was severely lacking during that span.

Perks value was never his individual stats. It was always how the team defense functioned with him in there.

But regardless, the Cs need someone at the center spot that can make the defense function like it used to. Shaq showed that it doesn't have to be Perk, but it does need to be a legit center.

[BMark3]

If the Cs make this deal (and with JO's knee problems, some deal will need to be made) I would expand it and give up Keyon Dooling for Ramon Sessions. Sessions is a starting PG stuck on a bad team, while DFooling is an undersized 2.

[BMark3]

Getting Sessions will then give the Cs some flexibility with respect to dealing Rondo in a more significant deal.

[chambers]

http://www.fearthesword.com/2012/2/4/2771228/bill-simmons-proposed-trade-with-cetlics-verajao-for-two-2012-first

[BudweiserCeltic]

Honestly, I'm torn on this trade idea.

On one hand, I really like Varejao as a player.  He would absolutely be an improvement over JO.  Amazing offensive rebounder, husltles, and good defensive player.

The problem I would have is the salary he is paid.  He is scheduled to make 8m next season and 9m the year after.  Basically he would be getting roughly the same (slightly more actually) money that Danny was unwilling to pay Perk.  This just doesn't make sense to me.  If we were unwilling to pay Perk, why would we pay Varejao?  I'd have rather just kept Perk, who I feel is slightly better overall.

I know, past failed trades shouldn't be reason to not make future trades, but that is exactly what making this move would be.  An admission by Ainge the Perk trade was a bust.



By the way, sorry to make this about Perk.  I just had to point out the irony.

Perk who has 4.8 PPG, 46 FG% 5.5 RPG, 7.27 PER... that Perk? I think you guys have a delusion about what Perk has become since his latest big injury. For all this talk about how good defense Perk plays and how we missed him in last year's playoffs, I thought Perk's defense was severely lacking during that span.

Perks value was never his individual stats. It was always how the team defense functioned with him in there.

But regardless, the Cs need someone at the center spot that can make the defense function like it used to. Shaq showed that it doesn't have to be Perk, but it does need to be a legit center.

The defense is currently functioning like it's supposed to, or haven't you seen how we're pretty much leading or near the top of most defensive categories? Our problem right now are the young bigs.... hmm, seems like that has been a problem for us pretty much the entire Big 3 era. Our other problem is rebounding, and Perk is not doing a good job of it this season either, so not much help there either. Which is another problem we've had for years.

Anyways, Perks defense has regressed as has his offensive impact. I don't envision Perk doing any better than what JO is currently bringing to us.

[Who]

Marc Stein reporting via twitter that several teams have been calling for Varejao but are being turned away. Says that Varejao is "near untouchable".

So, that would make this trade offer is a non-starter. Not enough value to tempt Cleveland's brass. Time to move onto other alternatives at the center position to upgrade the Celtics roster.

[snively]

Marc Stein reporting via twitter that several teams have been calling for Varejao but are being turned away. Says that Varejao is "near untouchable".

So, that would make this trade offer is a non-starter. Not enough value to tempt Cleveland's brass. Time to move onto other alternatives at the center position to upgrade the Celtics roster.

Makes sense. Only 29.  I'm sure Gilbert/Scott are very confident that Irving is a burgeoning superstar and that they want to keep a quality supporting cast around him now, instead of looking to the lottery.  I imagine they're anticipating landing veteran free agents in the offseason.

I hope a rough patch in the season can dissuade them of that notion.  A prolonged stretch of bad play that would cause them to lengthen their rebuilding window and look to the lottery (instead of free agency) for another star to pair with Irving. 

[winsomme]

Honestly, I'm torn on this trade idea.

On one hand, I really like Varejao as a player.  He would absolutely be an improvement over JO.  Amazing offensive rebounder, husltles, and good defensive player.

The problem I would have is the salary he is paid.  He is scheduled to make 8m next season and 9m the year after.  Basically he would be getting roughly the same (slightly more actually) money that Danny was unwilling to pay Perk.  This just doesn't make sense to me.  If we were unwilling to pay Perk, why would we pay Varejao?  I'd have rather just kept Perk, who I feel is slightly better overall.

I know, past failed trades shouldn't be reason to not make future trades, but that is exactly what making this move would be.  An admission by Ainge the Perk trade was a bust.



By the way, sorry to make this about Perk.  I just had to point out the irony.

Perk who has 4.8 PPG, 46 FG% 5.5 RPG, 7.27 PER... that Perk? I think you guys have a delusion about what Perk has become since his latest big injury. For all this talk about how good defense Perk plays and how we missed him in last year's playoffs, I thought Perk's defense was severely lacking during that span.

a


Perks value was never his individual stats. It was always how the team defense functioned with him in there.

But regardless, the Cs need someone at the center spot that can make the defense function like it used to. Shaq showed that it doesn't have to be Perk, but it does need to be a legit center.

The defense is currently functioning like it's supposed to, or haven't you seen how we're pretty much leading or near the top of most defensive categories? Our problem right now are the young bigs.... hmm, seems like that has been a problem for us pretty much the entire Big 3 era. Our other problem is rebounding, and Perk is not doing a good job of it this season either, so not much help there either. Which is another problem we've had for years.

Anyways, Perks defense has regressed as has his offensive impact. I don't envision Perk doing any better than what JO is currently bringing to us.

the interior defense is not where it needs to be for a serious playoff run. We are way too thin in the middle. Perk worked on the Cs because he filled that role of holding down the middle. You can focus on Perks individual stats but it's not going to change how successful the Cs were with him....also the Thunder.

Anyways, this isn't about Perk. It's about how to get the Cs in the best position for a playoff run....and IMO the top need is a legit center to replace Perk. JO is decent but should be our backup.

[LooseCannon]

Anyways, this isn't about Perk. It's about how to get the Cs in the best position for a playoff run....and IMO the top need is a legit center to replace Perk. JO is decent but should be our backup.

A healthy JO is good enough to be a starter, but he's not going to play 30 minutes and he's not going to be an offensive sparkplug.  I'd set my sights lower and aim for a backup center who would be an upgrade over Wilcox on defense, even if that player is nothing special on offense or rebounding.

Center depth is important since Wilcox is a bit of an injury-prone player who has had 2 seasons with more than 65 games played in his nine previous seasons.  (JO has had 5 seasons of more than 65 games in the same time-span).

[jambr380]

I normally wouldn't care, since threads come and go, but this one has been around a while now - can somebody please correct the spelling of Varejao's name?

On another note, I like what he offers, but wouldn't want to trade for him until after we know what this offseason brings.

[chambers]

If they won't move him via trade, they need to sit him and tank, because that organization isn't going anywhere.
Sit him for 5-6 games against easier opponents so their record suffers that extra little bit.

[LooseCannon]

If they won't move him via trade, they need to sit him and tank, because that organization isn't going anywhere.
Sit him for 5-6 games against easier opponents so their record suffers that extra little bit.

If you're going to tank, that is the wrong way to go about unless you just want to perpetuate a culture of losing.

You might as well sit Irving under the same conditions.

[Celtics18]

If they won't move him via trade, they need to sit him and tank, because that organization isn't going anywhere.
Sit him for 5-6 games against easier opponents so their record suffers that extra little bit.

If you're going to tank, that is the wrong way to go about unless you just want to perpetuate a culture of losing.

You might as well sit Irving under the same conditions.

Yup.  I'm thinking Cleveland's best bet is to fight and claw their way to try to get that 8th playoff spot.  If they fall short, oh well, but Irving seems like a good, young player, and you don't want to teach him to be a loser in his first season.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I hate the tank culture among fans and media that has sprung up around hoping to hit the jackpot in the draft lottery.

I'd love to see the NBA scrap the draft altogether, get us 30 true minor league teams in a hurry, and let young ballers be signed as free agents as soon as they turn 18.

[angryguy77]

The thought of verajao in green just made me throw up in my mouth a little

[KGs Knee]

I'd love to see the NBA scrap the draft altogether, get us 30 true minor league teams in a hurry, and let young ballers be signed as free agents as soon as they turn 18.

Do you realize what wou ld happen under this scenario?  LA/NY would get just about every top flight player.

There is a (good) reason why leagues' have a draft.  Its unavoidable.