Bill Simmons idea: JO+our two 2012 first round picks for Verajao

[StartOrien]

I disagree with the idea of bringing Varejao in JUST for a title run.

[LB3533]

The answer to this trade and to the front page poll is a big fat NOOOO.

You will see a significant drop in rebounding production from Sideshow Bob if he were to become a Celtic.

A big part of our low rebounding is our team philosophy and our team system.

I promise you guys it is not worth giving up assets for a role player who will not play up to his role if he were wearing Celtic green.

[Rondo2287]

I don't see the trade putting Boston over the top so I wouldn't give up both 1sts to get it done.  I'd probably give up 1 of them as Andy is a pretty solid use of the cap space and one 1st isn't that big of a deal. 

I also wouldn't foreclose the idea of still moving Allen or KG even if I brought in Andy as I think he is a nice piece going forward, but I know if they bring him in, they are going to go for it this season.

This is exactly it.  We aren't the Toronto Raptors, we don't hang atlantic division titles from the rafters.  I don't think this core is good enough to win it all even with Varejao so there isnt any reason to jeopardize our financial flexibility and draft flexibility.

But what are your alternatives?

I think moving forward with Rondo, Pierce, Varejao and 18.5 million dollars is the best option.

The alternative is either make a splash in free agency or suck and build through the draft.  I don't want a team that is just good enough to keep ticket prices high and do nothing else.

But saying splash is a lot easier than make it. Outside of Howard, there isn't a better alternative for this team. I don't think adding a defensive center on a good contract is just keeping prices high, it's an effort to construct a good team.

I don't see why a team of:

Rondo / Bradley
Wilson Chandler or OJ Mayo
Pierce
Kris Humprhies or Brandon Bass
Varejao / Jajuan Johnson

Couldn't be a serious contender.

I don't think that team gets it done.  Remember Miami is going to be adding more depth each year.  And I agree making a splash is alot harder than saying it.  The celts havent brought in a big name free agent for as long as i can remember, and i don't see that changing.  I think starting over and building through the draft and then maybe trading for agining allstars again is the way to go.

[StartOrien]

I don't think that team gets it done.  Remember Miami is going to be adding more depth each year.  And I agree making a splash is alot harder than saying it.  The celts havent brought in a big name free agent for as long as i can remember, and i don't see that changing.  I think starting over and building through the draft and then maybe trading for agining allstars again is the way to go.

I guess we're at a philosophical difference then. Personally, I take the proven talents over taking the risk on a mid to late round first picks.

[CelticG1]

I don't see the trade putting Boston over the top so I wouldn't give up both 1sts to get it done.  I'd probably give up 1 of them as Andy is a pretty solid use of the cap space and one 1st isn't that big of a deal. 

I also wouldn't foreclose the idea of still moving Allen or KG even if I brought in Andy as I think he is a nice piece going forward, but I know if they bring him in, they are going to go for it this season.

e
This is exactly it.  We aren't the Toronto Raptors, we don't hang atlantic division titles from the rafters.  I don't think this core is good enough to win it all even with Varejao so there isnt any reason to jeopardize our financial flexibility and draft flexibility.

But what are your alternatives?

I think moving forward with Rondo, Pierce, Varejao and 18.5 million dollars is the best option.

The alternative is either make a splash in free agency or suck and build through the draft.  I don't want a team that is just good enough to keep ticket prices high and do nothing else.

How are we going to make a splash in free agency?

[chambers]

I disagree with the idea of bringing Varejao in JUST for a title run.

Well, if the shoe fits, wear it another season.
If it doesn't, sell it and buy another pair.

[Rondo2287]

I don't think that team gets it done.  Remember Miami is going to be adding more depth each year.  And I agree making a splash is alot harder than saying it.  The celts havent brought in a big name free agent for as long as i can remember, and i don't see that changing.  I think starting over and building through the draft and then maybe trading for agining allstars again is the way to go.

I guess we're at a philosophical difference then. Personally, I take the proven talents over taking the risk on a mid to late round first picks.

If we had a core like Rond+Gay or Rondo+Josh smith, I would say go get Varejao.  I think Pierce has maybe 2 years left after this year and I just don't think you should bring in a guy like Varejao when you don't know who the stars are going to be.  I don't think thats good business.

[chambers]

The answer to this trade and to the front page poll is a big fat NOOOO.

You will see a significant drop in rebounding production from Sideshow Bob if he were to become a Celtic.

A big part of our low rebounding is our team philosophy and our team system.

I promise you guys it is not worth giving up assets for a role player who will not play up to his role if he were wearing Celtic green.

Maybe his offensive rebounding numbers, but he would still be the beast that he is on the defensive end.
I'd argue he would greatly improve our offense because of his offensive rebounding- our team doesn't just shoot once and run back on defense (if this is what you are suggesting by our 'system'). He will go up, grab the ball, kick it back out to Rondo or Ray and give us another chance to run our plays and put pressure on opponents defense. Think about how many rebounds we lose because JO is stuck to the floor and KG has to fight against 3 younger beasts- our only chance is when Bass and Wilcox are in their with KG, and that's rare.
Verajao has the speed to run up the floor with Rondo and Ray Allen, and then get back immediately on defense as Doc wants. He can take charges like JO, help defend with KG and run pick and roll with Paul Pierce. His size, speed, length, athleticism and footwork are just priceless for a defensive system like ours.

Again, if you think a healthy Perkins was good for this team, just imagine what an upgraded mobile version of Perk looks like running the floor with Rondo, or picture him grabbing multiple offensive rebounds and kicking it out to Pierce, Pietrus or Ray for second chance 3 point attempts.

[StartOrien]

I don't think that team gets it done.  Remember Miami is going to be adding more depth each year.  And I agree making a splash is alot harder than saying it.  The celts havent brought in a big name free agent for as long as i can remember, and i don't see that changing.  I think starting over and building through the draft and then maybe trading for agining allstars again is the way to go.

I guess we're at a philosophical difference then. Personally, I take the proven talents over taking the risk on a mid to late round first picks.

If we had a core like Rond+Gay or Rondo+Josh smith, I would say go get Varejao.  I think Pierce has maybe 2 years left after this year and I just don't think you should bring in a guy like Varejao when you don't know who the stars are going to be.  I don't think thats good business.

But as pointed out before, Varejao is a type of guy you could easily unload if need be. If two years from now you're finding that Pierce can't compete, and the other players haven' elevated their game you could always flip Varejao to a competing team.

[Rondo2287]

I don't think that team gets it done.  Remember Miami is going to be adding more depth each year.  And I agree making a splash is alot harder than saying it.  The celts havent brought in a big name free agent for as long as i can remember, and i don't see that changing.  I think starting over and building through the draft and then maybe trading for agining allstars again is the way to go.

I guess we're at a philosophical difference then. Personally, I take the proven talents over taking the risk on a mid to late round first picks.

If we had a core like Rond+Gay or Rondo+Josh smith, I would say go get Varejao.  I think Pierce has maybe 2 years left after this year and I just don't think you should bring in a guy like Varejao when you don't know who the stars are going to be.  I don't think thats good business.

But as pointed out before, Varejao is a type of guy you could easily unload if need be. If two years from now you're finding that Pierce can't compete, and the other players haven' elevated their game you could always flip Varejao to a competing team.

But then you are just pushing off the inevitable rebuilding process for a few years.  I would rather just start now. 

[Rondo2287]

Also, if I thought AV added to this team would make them a title contender I would do it, but right now I don't see it.

[StartOrien]

I don't think that team gets it done.  Remember Miami is going to be adding more depth each year.  And I agree making a splash is alot harder than saying it.  The celts havent brought in a big name free agent for as long as i can remember, and i don't see that changing.  I think starting over and building through the draft and then maybe trading for agining allstars again is the way to go.

I guess we're at a philosophical difference then. Personally, I take the proven talents over taking the risk on a mid to late round first picks.

If we had a core like Rond+Gay or Rondo+Josh smith, I would say go get Varejao.  I think Pierce has maybe 2 years left after this year and I just don't think you should bring in a guy like Varejao when you don't know who the stars are going to be.  I don't think thats good business.

But as pointed out before, Varejao is a type of guy you could easily unload if need be. If two years from now you're finding that Pierce can't compete, and the other players haven' elevated their game you could always flip Varejao to a competing team.

But then you are just pushing off the inevitable rebuilding process for a few years.  I would rather just start now. 

Not really - my point is that I think it'd work for this team, but if it didn't you've got an escape plan. Ideally, Bradley and Johnson develop and Rondo and the two other middle of the road free agents progress as well.

Rondo
Bradley
W. Chandler
J. Johnson / Humprhies
Varejao

[Rondo2287]

I don't think that team gets it done.  Remember Miami is going to be adding more depth each year.  And I agree making a splash is alot harder than saying it.  The celts havent brought in a big name free agent for as long as i can remember, and i don't see that changing.  I think starting over and building through the draft and then maybe trading for agining allstars again is the way to go.

I guess we're at a philosophical difference then. Personally, I take the proven talents over taking the risk on a mid to late round first picks.

If we had a core like Rond+Gay or Rondo+Josh smith, I would say go get Varejao.  I think Pierce has maybe 2 years left after this year and I just don't think you should bring in a guy like Varejao when you don't know who the stars are going to be.  I don't think thats good business.

But as pointed out before, Varejao is a type of guy you could easily unload if need be. If two years from now you're finding that Pierce can't compete, and the other players haven' elevated their game you could always flip Varejao to a competing team.

But then you are just pushing off the inevitable rebuilding process for a few years.  I would rather just start now. 

Not really - my point is that I think it'd work for this team, but if it didn't you've got an escape plan. Ideally, Bradley and Johnson develop and Rondo and the two other middle of the road free agents progress as well.

Rondo
Bradley
W. Chandler
J. Johnson / Humprhies
Varejao

I think we are just gonna have to agree to disagree.  To me that looks like a 6-7 seed at best.  Oh well, I think we can all expect Danny to do something none of us saw coming anyways

[CelticG1]

I think its very sad that people would rather rebuild (whatever that means) than compete for a title this year

The only reason I can come up with is that people are lookimg arty or 11-10 record right now. Personally I think we are going to continue trending upward and surprise a lot of people with the quantity and quality wins we are going to generate once we get  Rondo back.

So my question to the people opposed of this trade is if we rattle off more wins, beat the Bulls and Lakers and whatever other competition before the deadline do you still not think AV would put us over the hump?

I mean honestly if the celts won their next 10 in  a row you wouldn't think there of any hope for this team?

[Rondo2287]

I think its very sad that people would rather rebuild (whatever that means) than compete for a title this year

The only reason I can come up with is that people are lookimg arty or 11-10 record right now. Personally I think we are going to continue trending upward and surprise a lot of people with the quantity and quality wins we are going to generate once we get  Rondo back.

So my question to the people opposed of this trade is if we rattle off more wins, beat the Bulls and Lakers and whatever other competition before the deadline do you still not think AV would put us over the hump?

I mean honestly if the celts won their next 10 in  a row you wouldn't think there of any hope for this team?

No I don't think so.  I think even with AV this team is out in the second round of the playoffs.  Thats just my opinion take it for what its worth.  I don't think we can beat a bulls or heat team in the 2nd round with them having home court.