Those who want Ray to come off the bench aern'nt blaming Ray

[ianboyextreme]

The last 4 games we have had great defense from everyone on the floor. Its important to establish that defense right out the gate and get in a rythym. Ray is not that good defensively. He had a great game tonight but him being a sixth man is better for the team. I am by no means blaming him. For whatever reason, we got crossed up and almost every pick and roll they ran tonight, and I think with Pietrus or Bradley starting at the 2 not only will the defense be better, but the offensive flow is better. Waiting at the 3 point line as Ray runs around screens is bad offense. Ray should still get starter minutes but it should be the same situation as they have in OKC with Sefalosha and Harden. Unless Doc finds a way to continue the success with Ray IN the lineup, I think him coming off the bench is the answer.

[Eja117]

cosign...it's worth a try. At least in games against fast teams.

Hey did anyone hear Irving yell beep beep tonight?

[xhfjc36]

Are you serious? The Cavaliers shot 43% from the field with the Celtics 52%. That's a pretty good job on defense. Do you honestly believe that Pietrus might be the better defensive option?

Not to mention, Ray Allen has been holding opposing shooting guards to 39% shooting. Pretty good defense, if you ask me.

We lost because we couldn't get a rebound towards the end of the game. If you're complaining about the lack of bigs, I'd understand.

[vinnie]

The Celtics did not play poor defense tonight. Two guys really killed them -- Verajao dominated the inside and neither Bradley nor Moore could guard Kyrie Irving.

[Who]

I don't like Ray as a sixth man. Too limited a shot creator. Needs to be alongside the team's best playmakers and not it's worst offensive players.

Moving him to the bench will make him less effective.

[ianboyextreme]

well for whatever reason, the cavs had far too many easy looks down low. They killed us on pick and rolls.

[PosImpos]

The Celtics did not play poor defense tonight. Two guys really killed them -- Verajao dominated the inside and neither Bradley nor Moore could guard Kyrie Irving.

Getting dominated in the paint, and basically conceding penetration and scoring at the rim to the opposing point guard throughout the game.

How is that not playing poorly on defense?

[mqtcelticsfan]

well for whatever reason, the cavs had far too many easy looks down low. They killed us on pick and rolls.

They only scored 88 points! 88! They only hit 43% of their shots tonight. I'd take that sort of defensive performance 10 times out of 10.

[ianboyextreme]

well for whatever reason, the cavs had far too many easy looks down low. They killed us on pick and rolls.

They only scored 88 points! 88! They only hit 43% of their shots tonight. I'd take that sort of defensive performance 10 times out of 10.

Well they may have scored only 89 points but it seemed like half of them were easy shots under the basket.

[illestmcsgt]

This is why we need Rondo back with the starters. As good as Bradley has been playing, Rondo has more experience playing with them.

I kind of feel like we need JO back too, I think with Bass, Pietrus, Bradley, Wilcox, and Moore coming off the bench is better. Dooling will take most of Moore/Bradley mins when he comes back but they should still get experience in the season. The 2nd unit needs to play together to get more chemistry before the playoffs begins.

[mqtcelticsfan]

well for whatever reason, the cavs had far too many easy looks down low. They killed us on pick and rolls.

They only scored 88 points! 88! They only hit 43% of their shots tonight. I'd take that sort of defensive performance 10 times out of 10.

Well they may have scored only 89 points but it seemed like half of them were easy shots under the basket.

Something that is typically the SG's job to stop from happening.

[Celtics4ever]

As good as Bradley has been playing

I don't think he has been playing that good.  I feel bad he got hurt tonight.  But some folks thought he was playing like his jersey ought to be in the rafters.  Irving owned him tonight.   He does not shoot well.   He is not a great passer.   I think he has trouble with picks.  But some here are ready to anoint him.   I simply do not think he is as good as people say.   I think he has potential as a defensive stopper though in spot situations.

Ray will start folks.  He is not why we lost.   Bradley is not why we lost, no more than he was why we won.   We played poorly and played to the level of our opponents.  That will get you in trouble all the time.  Sideshow Bob always kills us and he did again tonight.

[Marcus13]

The Ray Allen being bad on defense myth has already been proven incorrect by the stats this season in a couple other threads

[Inside-Out]

Is it okay to think the team needs at least one, but probably two young players in the starting lineup next to Rondo, and think that Ray should be one of the two current older veterans to shift to the bench?

I imagine that I'd keep Pierce and KG starting for sure, bring Ray off the bench, and alternate between Bass and JO starting depending on matchups, with Wilcox and Steimsma the 4th and 5th bigs in a 4-big rotation.  I might consider a rest rotation, giving 1-3 games off to a player so that they all keep their timing/game conditioning.  I guess that means I'm okay with Steimsma as 4th big...good deep big guy depth (way to go, Danny!)

I suppose Pietrus is the natural energy, guy, shooter, and veteran defensive pest to start on the wing next to Pierce.  Work the ball through Rondo and Pierce, with Pietrus, Bass or JO, and KG as shooter/finishers.  That's solid.

Then there aren't many 4th guard/backup PG minutes to spread between Dooling, Bradley, and Moore, so they can have a rest rotation, too.  Lots of deep guard depth.

So Ray's right in the rotation, still as the 2nd guard in minutes (behind Rondo, IMO).  Pietrus gets starter minutes, as he also backs up Pierce (still 3rd wing in 3-man rotation, but starting).

But really, it just makes the most sense for Ray to come off the bench, and it has nothing to do with any one game, streak, win, or loss.

[chambers]

I think that Ray has plenty left in the tank to start.
Bringing in Pietrus and Bass should be plenty and it shouldn't matter who starts.
Ray isn't the reason for their points inside- he doesn't get burned as one topic suggested, he just looks slower.
And the reason we got killed on those pick and rolls is because of Bass- he had no idea what was going on.

Some food for thought: I think they were intending to start Jeff Green over Ray this year. Reason being is that Wyc (team owner) made reference to Green starting with Ray coming off the bench and how Green's injury/illness really put a screw in their plans and they had to re organize the roster.
He mentioned this on a recent broadcast with Tommy and Mike.