Better without Ray?

[rickyfan3.0...]

I know this is heresy, but is the recent surge (especially on defense) connected to the absence of Ray Allen? I have been noticing that Ray gives us nothing besides scoring anymore. He gets TORCHED night after night on the defensive end... maybe having a guy like Pietrus that will dig in at the 2 has made us much better all around? The eye test certainly says it is so.

He can't cover these quicker 2 guards... I mean I love him, and his big shot ability is obviously enormous, but is he better suited as a 6th man or even trade bait now?

[Celtics18]

I know this is heresy, but is the recent surge (especially on defense) connected to the absence of Ray Allen? I have been noticing that Ray gives us nothing besides scoring anymore. He gets TORCHED night after night on the defensive end... maybe having a guy like Pietrus that will dig in at the 2 has made us much better all around? The eye test certainly says it is so.

He can't cover these quicker 2 guards... I mean I love him, and his big shot ability is obviously enormous, but is he better suited as a 6th man or even trade bait now?

I think we can point to the awakening of Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett as elite NBA players as the primary reason for our recent surge.  The contributions from the entire bench have helped as well. 

When the best backcourt in the NBA returns, look out, league!!

[LB3533]

It took more injuries to our team to make this team wake up!

[OsirusCeltics]

Here is my take on Ray

If Ray was on another team, his versatility would be evident
Ray can shoot the 3, awesome at driving the ball, one of the best cutters in the leauge, good defence for a guy his age, and is definately clutch... but you only see that in spurts since he's playing with 3 other all stars

Just a year before he came to the Celtics, he was averaging 26 ppg. But when he came to the team, his scoring lowered to 17 ppg, he was asked to run screens, stay in spots awaiting for 3 point oppurtunities, etc. I think Ray's ability to subdue his ego is overlooked. By seeing him play on the Celtics, alot forget how good he is

But I do think Celtics might be better off without Ray, because on this team they spend alot of energy and time on the clock trying to get Ray involved in the game. Just seeing the Celtics play the Wizards, Pacers, and Magic twice, I see how simple the Celtics play their offensive sets. They score with greater ease and its easier to get everybody on the team invovled

[Roy H.]

I don't know if Ray's defense has been that bad this season.  Opponent's are shooting 38.7% against him according to Synergy Sports, and at least as of January 18, opposing SGs had an anemic 9.9 PER against him (scoring 12.2 pts per 36 minutes).

Again as of January 18, the Celtics are 10.1 points per 48 minutes better with Ray on the court as opposed to off it.  He's definitely not the problem.  Moreso, I'd attribute our early struggles to an injured and/or rusty Paul Pierce, and a struggling Kevin Garnett.

[guava_wrench]

We have played a lot of elite defense with Ray Allen on the floor, so I am not going to overreact to 3 games.

[guava_wrench]

Here is my take on Ray

If Ray was on another team, his versatility would be evident
Ray can shoot the 3, awesome at driving the ball, one of the best cutters in the leauge, good defence for a guy his age, and is definately clutch... but you only see that in spurts since he's playing with 3 other all stars

Just a year before he came to the Celtics, he was averaging 26 ppg. But when he came to the team, his scoring lowered to 17 ppg, he was asked to run screens, stay in spots awaiting for 3 point oppurtunities, etc. I think Ray's ability to subdue his ego is overlooked. By seeing him play on the Celtics, alot forget how good he is

But I do think Celtics might be better off without Ray, because on this team they spend alot of energy and time on the clock trying to get Ray involved in the game. Just seeing the Celtics play the Wizards, Pacers, and Magic twice, I see how simple the Celtics play their offensive sets. They score with greater ease and its easier to get everybody on the team invovled

Remember 2007-08 when Doc said Ray got the short end because the team really didn't have plays to best use him? Now it seems our offense usually starts with him and waiting for him to run through picks. I'm not saying that this is good or bad, but it is clearly a major part of our system.

[saltlover]

That said, we are a better team because Ray and Rondo have had to take time off.  There was virtually no training camp, and there are very few opportunities to have actual practices.  Their absence has allowed the bench players to get their feet under them, and has allowed/required Doc to tinker with different combinations of personnel on the floor.  Now the Celtics know how to run an offense with Bradley and PP on the floor, for example, which will help going forward.

[rayallen1934]

Sometimes this board makes me sick...here me out

Why is this board more than any other jerked by 1 to 3 game stints

When ray allen was scoring 28 27 points, and pierce was either playing like complete garbage and garnett playing like he was 75 , with 0 help from the bench nothing is said

But when he's out for 3 games and they win, now the problem becomes the players who are out?

How does this not make a die hard fan mad?

I've heard that pierce was finished, he should come off the bench, but now he's the big man on campus...

We need to start rooting for our players not evaluating them after 2 games where they don't even play


This doesn't mean we can't point out the weaknesses of ray and so, we just have to use some common sense instead of downing our own players

[Tone]

the offense does look a little better without Ray because the team has to stop so ray can come off a screen and shoot.

[Sketch5]

Not better with out Ray, but the offense needs to run like it has, and thats threw Peirce. To many times Rondo will be waiting for Ray to come off of screens and there is only 8 seconds left when they start to actually do some thing.

I wouldn't even mind him coming off the bench, Pietrus and Sasha have been giving energy to the starting line up. Its nice to see.

[TheReaLPuba]

The offense looks some what better because our defense is better and we're creating more turnovers leading to easier buckets.

We're also running more pick and roll and pick and pop and going down on the box to mismatches more.

All plays we can still be doing when Ray gets back...

...with Ray Allen on the floor the spacing will be so much better and there will be way more room for other players to operate down low.

The problem isn't waiting for Ray to clear screens it's the C's haven't been getting into the offense fast enough because in part of their poor rebounding.

I think lately we've protected the glass and have been rebounding better on the defensive end allowing us to get into our offense quicker.

[green7]

i said if the c's beat the pacers then i will be convinced,the ball movement is great and so is the offense.the players are actually running and hustling getting inside etc,with 3 players in their mid 30's in the starting line up maybe that is what's hurting the team(say what you want but with ray,paul,kg this team looks old),because when you replace pietrus with ray there's energy defense ray is a better offensive player but pietrus can still give you good offense.maybe it's because bradley/moore are not worrying about assist all they care about is getting the win and keeping the ball moving for more great looks for shots,

hey say what you want maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm not but the winning streak don't lie

[rayallen1934]

i said if the c's beat the pacers then i will be convinced,the ball movement is great and so is the offense.the players are actually running and hustling getting inside etc,with 3 players in their mid 30's in the starting line up maybe that is what's hurting the team(say what you want but with ray,paul,kg this team looks old),because when you replace pietrus with ray there's energy defense ray is a better offensive player but pietrus can still give you good offense.maybe it's because bradley/moore are not worrying about assist all they care about is getting the win and keeping the ball moving for more great looks for shots,

hey say what you want maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm not but the winning streak don't lie

What was pierce doing before this 4 game stretch, how about garnett?

I agree the offense should run some more with pierce at the top and pick and roll though.

[green7]

i said if the c's beat the pacers then i will be convinced,the ball movement is great and so is the offense.the players are actually running and hustling getting inside etc,with 3 players in their mid 30's in the starting line up maybe that is what's hurting the team(say what you want but with ray,paul,kg this team looks old),because when you replace pietrus with ray there's energy defense ray is a better offensive player but pietrus can still give you good offense.maybe it's because bradley/moore are not worrying about assist all they care about is getting the win and keeping the ball moving for more great looks for shots,

hey say what you want maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm not but the winning streak don't lie

What was pierce doing before this 4 game stretch, how about garnett?

I agree the offense should run some more with pierce at the top and pick and roll though.

that's what i mean why are they better without ray? maybe it's because the team does not look old for a change.